Scenario: Unarmed BG refuses to move

[HKguy9]

You are alone and walk out of a convenient store and a guy starts to follow ya. BG doesn't appear to be armed, and is sober. He says "Hey buddy, ya got 5 bucks?" You ignore him and walk towards your car. He follows but is maintaining distance but there is NO way you can open you car door and shut it before he reaches you, assuming he wants to, so you walk to the other side of your car to create some distance.

BG reaches your car but does not follow you--rather he stands at the driver's side door and holds. He is showing no aggression, but it IS public so you can't just hit the guy. You are unarmed except for a multi-tool, cell phone and pen (you are stuck in California).

What do you do? BG is passive but refuses to move but keeps askin' for a few bucks.

[Texas2NC]

I am not a small guy and I look (or so I am told by my coworkers) like a drill sergeant.

I don't tend to be passive in any given situation and I don't like being followed. I would have escalated this before the guy could trap me at my vehicle; stopped and confronted him. Then again, not many folks follow me :D

[Parke1]

Well let's see here. If he's on the other side of the car from me, I suppose I'd enter the passenger side and slide over to the driver's seat and leave. If he became aggressive at this point, I'd probably just drive away from him (to prevent damage to my car) and call the police.

As long as he remains docile, just get in the car, slide over to the driver's side and leave.

-Parke1

[LoneStranger]

Inform him earlier that "Sorry, but I don't have it to loan" then go to your car and try to get in, driver or passenger, and leave.
Your statement leaves him with information that your not giving and you are not staying. After that he starts escalation.
If necessary go back in store and inform clerk of problem, they can call cops and get him rousted.

[chris93473]

i would confront the guy and threaten him.

[Betty]

I'd do what Parke1 said.

A few weeks ago, Oleg and I were walking to my pickup and this guy comes up to us, asking us for a few bucks to fill up his gas tank. Seems he's an odd-job guy and did some work and didn't get paid, maybe for good reason or not, I don't know. He lived many miles away and had no friends near him to call.

I had already had my door open, any my hand on my Para the whole time. (It looked like my hand was relaxing on my hip.) If he took one step closer, I would've sternly told him to back away, but he stayed out of the minimum comfort zone.

It didn't seem he was making the story up, and I told him I'd give him a few bucks if he could prove his gas tank was empty. He said "sure" and we walked over to his truck. He started it up, and the tank was running on empty (I know, sometimes gauges don't work, etc.)

So I gave him a few bucks, and he was very thankful and waved. I think if he cheated me, he would not have been so civil as he left, or headed in the direction he said he was going to go.

I would've never given him a dime if Oleg wasn't there -me digging in my purse meant occupying both hands. I observed that Oleg had his hands in his pocket holste, and I was close enough to nail the guy in the balls with my foot if he so much as blinked the wrong way.

It's nice to be a good samaritan, but the "helpee" needs to know a few basic rules when asking a complete stranger for help. Blocking someone's car door isn't the right way and is a sign of either absolute stupidity or aggression.

[pdmoderator]

Call in an air strike.

Seriously, I don't know the geometry here, so I don't know whether you can get to the passenger side and get in before he strikes (if he's going to.)

And how do you know he's really unarmed?

So if you can't enter the car safely, go back into the store and call 911. Tell 'em you've got a panhandler threatening you and preventing you from getting into your vehicle.

Not the standard gunshop ninja response, but hey, if PRWherever has disarmed you, they're going to have to expect overworked cops and clogged courts.

- pdmoderator

[C.R.Sam]

I say "no" in a neutral tone. No excuses, no justification, just "no"

I make rare exceptions in cases such as described by Runt.

In this scenario, when approching my vehicle, I would turn and say "stop"..........they do. Then get in and drive away.

No fuss.

Sam

[F350Lawman]

He says "Hey buddy, ya got 5 bucks?"

I tell him my standard....( in a very dry manner mind you)"Sorry Sir, I only carry hundreds."

:)



I reality, I look them right in the eye and say firmly, but not nastily, "No".


Just a little off topic but....

Why is it people feel the need to lie and say things like "I don't have change" or "I have no cash"?? Are we afraid of hurting some street mutant's feelings ? Why not give them the straight answer, if they heard enough NOs they would be less prevalant.

[Cowled_Wolfe]

If he looks shabby, etc... Tell him I already donate to area homeless shelters. If he's acting a bit aggressive, either head back to the shop and get a cop there, or -- situation permitting, get in on the passenger side and get the hell outta there... Or, if absolutely nessecary, keep him from ever being able to make babies.

If he's like this one panhandler I saw once, I'd give him $5... Then again, he had a sign reading "Why lie? I need beer."

[Hollowpnt]

I get hit by lots of panhandlers were I live, my general response is: Sure, but ya gotta work for it. Drop and give me twenty!
Funny they never will do the push-ups. :p
At this point, still being followed, I have to agree with Texas2nc. I'd turn and confront him verbally. If he gets physical? Multi-tools and car-keys can be very convincing deterents when jabbed into any one of our bodies many joints.

[John Ringo]

I second the air strike.

Seriously, I would tell him that I am going to call the cops if he doesn't back-off. Pulling a concealed weapon will probably land you in jail here in Ohio given those circumstances. They will say that "you had other means available" to diffuse the situation.

[yorec]

Depends on my mood - yeah I know moods aren't a good way to be careful in the bid city...

Most times I'd just tell him "no" and get in the passenger's side if he did as the scenario presented. Then leave.

But if I was having a day like the last time I was in Kalifornia and been impressed by the good folks there as I was then... I'd likly belly up to him and "move" him from my drivers door and leave him with an accounting of my feelings for Kalifornia citizenry. :barf: Yeah, so I'd probably get stabbed and go the rounds with him. But I'd sure feel justified in my opinion then! :rolleyes:

%@$# I gotta take another trip down there come January. :barf: :mad: :barf:

[PsychoSword]

You are alone and walk out of a convenient store and a guy starts to follow ya. BG doesn't appear to be armed, and is sober. He says "Hey buddy, ya got 5 bucks?" You ignore him and walk towards your car.

I don't ignore people who talk to me. I like to be polite. I say "why?". If he continues to follow and hasn't got at least an interesting story to waste my time with, it's obvious he wants to screw with me.


So I kick him in the nuts and run away screaming like a little girrl....

[Derius_T]

So I kick him in the nuts and run away screaming like a little girrl....


HAHAHA....LOL....... :D

[Danindetroit]

I have to ask, what would you do if you walked out of the store, at the same time as an older gentleman, with a limp, and a plastic bag in each hand. Your car was parked away from the older dude's, and you had no cell phone, nearest pay phone, is in the opposite direction of the "confrontation".

[johndavid400]

I always without a doubt say "Sorry, I have no cash".

Once, I was loading up my truck after work, and 4 large (20-25yr old) males were walking through the alley where my truck was parked. Me being alone, I ignored their presence as they walked by, pretending to be pre-occupied with my tools. Once they passed me by about 20 yards, one of them turned around and asked me if I knew how to work on cars... I lied and said "Nope", he then asked me if I knew how to work on sound systems in cars.... again I lied and told him "Nope, sorry". He said ok, and turned around and kept walking. About 10 minutes later, after I finished loading up my truck, I left the house and proceeded home. When I made the turn out of the alley, the 4 guys were standing there in the street.... so I got out my Bersa .380 and put it under my leg, with the safety off and my hand on it. The guy that had asked me the questions earlier, was on the side of the street and his buddies were in the street to where I couldn't pass without running one of them over. The one that was on the side came over and asked me if I had change for a $20. Now what kind of stupid white boy do they think that I am? Lets think about what good saying yes could bring? Exactly why I said "Nope, I don't have any cash" without even stopping to think about it.... (I wanted to say "But I do have 8 hydro-shoks that you can eat if you want!!!".... ;) So the guy said ok, turned away and his friends followed and I went home safely. Keep in mind that I had my clutch engaged, truck in 1st gear, and my foot on the gas ready to dump the clutch and take off, plowing right through that human road block that they had created, if I felt that they were about to try something.. I wouldn't have stopped in the first place, but I felt that if I had tried to run through them even though they guy was talking to me, that I might come to work the next day to find a burnt down house or some form of vandalism to my Dad's rental house that I was working on, becuase I disrespected them. It all turned out ok though...

Moral of the story: if you tell a guy that wants cash, that you do not have any cash, he will be less likely to take his chances and proceed to rob you.

[eka]

A little can of pepper spray is great dog and bum repellant. Hose him down if he gets too close after being politely asked to beat it. That should give you enough time to get into your car and drive away.

[Archie]

is legal in PDSR California.

I was accosted by a pan-handler - grifter several years ago. I was getting gas at a self service type place and bought a can of soda pop. There were two other customers and a clerk in the store.

Grifter approaches me and demandingly asks "You gonna buy me a soda too?"

I looked him in the eye and said, "No." No hesitation, no explanation.

He gives me the fish-eye and asks "Oh, just like that, huh?"

I quietly replied, "Just like that."

He tried to stare me down for about four seconds and then broke eye contact. He wandered around the store for a moment and left. I kept my eye on him as he wandered about the lot, I was filling my car.

I was armed with a K frame revolver, but he never knew that. Somehow, I don't think he liked what he saw in my eyes.

Anyway, that and the earplugs are my only two tough guy stories.

[ghostdoc]

You ignored him. Maybe he's`just waiting for an answer. :D I might give him a buck ot two. It's Christmas. He's probably just another crazy. I'm a crazy magnet. They flock to me. (Birds of a feather you know) :rolleyes: Happy Holidays gd

[DT Guy]

Panhandlers and homeless people are far more dangerous than they are given credit for-just had to fight an old homeless guy who felt that being diabetic gave him the right to steal, trespass and otherwise foul up another person's property.

And nearly ALL homeless people have something they intend to use as a weapon-steak knife, stick, whatever-since they live and sleep on the streets.


Larry

[Doug242ti]

If he's like this one panhandler I saw once, I'd give him $5... Then again, he had a sign reading "Why lie? I need beer."

LOL I ussualy reward honesty as well. That happened the other night in down town SAC (like always... Santa Cruz seems to be the worst though). Guy came up and asked for beer money... I always have a dollar or two for honesty like that.

[Ozzieman]

The reasion I would say that is that your story is impossible. I would never live in a state like CA or any state that did not allow carry permits.

[chameleon]

If I were unarmed, as the scenario dictates, and I was able to see it wasn't a person that knows me playing a joke, after he asked me for cash, and I felt that he was following me, I'd head back to the store. I would go in, and have the counter person call the authorities. I would ask the attendant if that person was known around that store,and is always panhandling there.

[Derius_T]

ozzyman wrote:

I would pull my coat aside and show him I was carring a gun

Uhhmm...isn't that brandishing? You could lose your liscense over that. At least here in Ohio.....

[XavierBreath]

If I did not feel threatened, as in if he kept a social distance, I would ask why he needed the money. Heck, he could be a hard working Joe who ran out of gas and had no money, or in his frustration left his wallet in his truck 5 miles back, and just needed to get home. I try not to judge by looks alone. A lot of working stiffs at the end of the day asking for cash would look like they lived under a bridge.

If he did not answer my question appropriately, then the situation changes. I would reenter the store, and call to have him picked up. Trust me, the store owner does not want him there. Then I would get to my car and leave as he was harrassing another patron.

I live in small town America, not LA. I tip waitresses, give money to those in need, but I do not encourage people to harrass others by rewarding their behavior.

[pax]

LOL I ussualy reward honesty as well.
I reward honesty, too. But the one time I gave significant ($20) to a panhandler, it was for a really good lie.

Husband and I were walking in downtown San Jose, near the courthouse, at lunchtime. Lots of people around doing whatever businesspeople do at lunchtime.

Panhandler was standing next to a Porche that had the meter expired, looked my husband in the eye, and said, "Oh man! My meter just expired, and look, the meter maid's coming! My car's going to get towed away ..."

The meter maid was, in fact, working her way up the street. But the guy was an obvious denizen of the streets, with hygiene to match. He was laughing, too, because he knew it was ludicrous.

I thought about it, handed him a quarter.

He said, "thanks!" and then he fed the parking meter.

Husband and I looked at each other, and without a word, Bob pulled out his wallet and I pulled a $20 out to hand the guy.

:D

pax

[XavierBreath]

That's priceless pax!

[brokendreams]

Isn't all of that a little agressive? It happens to me daily and depending on the look of the guy, I'll either give it to him if I have it, or respond politely "I'm really sorry man, I don't have it on me" Even if it's a bum, who'sto know he ain't a vet?

Now, if he continues to follow, I'd turn around and tell him firlmly, "I told you I don't have anything. Please stop following me." Since I live in california, and I can't carry my Ruger P90, I usually have an 8 inch Buck on me. That's usually pretty persuasive. Multi tool and car keyes and cell? Take out the cell, pretend to dial 911 "Yes, Sheriff? I have a man here..." If he's a vagrant, he'll be gone by the time you say "Sheriff." If he continues to persue, yell for help, something like "I told you NO, now back the f*** off!" In a loud voice usually attracts attention, without sounding like a pansy. Then, at least he has eyes on him, and you can defend yourself if need be.

[Double Naught Spy]

BG reaches your car but does not follow you--rather he stands at the driver's side door and holds. He is showing no aggression, but it IS public so you can't just hit the guy. You are unarmed except for a multi-tool, cell phone and pen (you are stuck in California).

Whether or not you can punch the guy is not relevant to the fact that you are in a public place, unless of course you needed a more secluded location so that there will be no witnesses around to see you commit a crime by assaulting the begger.

I am really surprised by those of you who said you would assault the begger.
So I kick him in the nuts and run away screaming like a little girrl....
A little can of pepper spray is great dog and bum repellant. Hose him down if he gets too close after being politely asked to beat it.

Of course, there is also the brandishing aspect. If the guy is not threatening you, displaying your gun to him isn't going to be a legal action.
I would pull my coat aside and show him I was carring a gun

I am also surprised that one remedy would be to call 911, give a false statement stating that the guy is threatening you and the false statement that he is precluding you from getting in your car. As noted in the scenario, the guy was not threatening you. He was just being persistent in his begging.


So if you can't enter the car safely, go back into the store and call 911. Tell 'em you've got a panhandler threatening you and preventing you from getting into your vehicle.

So what is the emergency that necessitates calling 911 from inside the store where the begger is no longer pursuing you? Even if you felt you are in danger while out by your car, at the time of the call, you are not in danger - being safe in the store.

[abelew]

Just hold your ground, and my preference is that if im carrying a gun, im carrying a less lethal option too........extendable baton (legal in FL). If you know what your doing with one of them, they will take down pretty much anyone. But it looks innocuous while holding onto it while someone is talking to you that you don't like (as it looks like a black stick about 7-8 in long with foam around it.

Calling 911.....panhandling is illegal in many areas, and you wouldn't be filing a false report if you told them you have a panhandler hassling you, and you wanted officer assistance. A reasonable person would feel threatened by this persons actions, because the panhandler could be crazy, or working himself to robbing/assulting you.....(I would not mind helping a citizen in this way....as long as the situation was described PROPERLY to the dispatcher). (am not LEO, but am heading in that direction). Just because a crime is not being committed (if panhandling is not illegal in your area), does not mean you can't request police assistance so that you do not get hit with an assult (or worse) charge.

[keens]

I agree with Archie because he stated that he would not take his eyes off the guy...that is a key point. I have learned this the hard way. Do not divert your eyes from him in hopes he will go away. Also, what I do might change with the time of day...darkness etc. I would watch his hands in my periphial vision...also for his buddies...if he would not back away from my car when asked politely, I would have a decision to make. Probably use the cell phone and call the police...if possible. But if he reached for something...both of our lives would change forever at that moment for the worse I am afraid.

[abelew]

You all are forgetting that you have an advantage here....the convienance store. Just tell the guy in no uncertian terms that you are going inside to call the cops, and go inside, go up to the register and talk to the clerk some, and keep your eye on the guy, and call them.....so what, your pride hurts, but a hurt ego is better than a throbbing head, right? Best to try to play by the rules, so if something does happen, and it ends up in court, you can say you exhausted all means that you reasonably had.

[ScoutMac]

Call the cops. I once asked my neighbor to turn down his music. The next day, after he smashed his own car with a hammer, he called the cops who questioned me at length about my threats to him. LEO told me "call us we will handle these types of relations with all your neighbors". The neighbor then confessed to hitting his own car about a week later and also told LEO to let me off the hook.

Chris

[tokarevman]

Even if i were armed or not armed id probably go back into the store stand in an area were i can see the car and if he staid by my car are folowed me back into the store i would call the cops. After thinking about it if he was following me i probably would not have even made it to the car before i turned around and went back in. with 911 diled into the phone with my finger on the send button.


I rember a couple of years ago aroung x-mass time me and my wife were going to target and i may have stole someons parking spot i did not see that they wanted to turn in so i did. But any way the guy cused at me a bit i said "im sorry budy you just sat there and did not have your blinker on" so he fliped me of and speed of. A little while later we were walking around in the store and he came up behind me yelling like crazy, and i camly said "buddy if you want me to call the cops i will but if you dont want to go to jail for x-mass i would sugest you leav me alone". He looked at me kinda funy and said "youd do that" i showed him i had 911 on my phone and said all i gota go is hit send. Buy that time the manager and some male employes came over saw that the guy was irate and said they were going to excorte him out of the building and if he did not comply they would call the cops as well. I was armed with my Makarov in my coat pocket and no one ever new.

[9mmsnoopy]

something like that actually happened to me about a year ago, was sitting in my truck in a whataburger parking lot eating a late nite burger, i was alone and armed. a street person whom appeared to be not quite right upstairs, approached me on the drivers side and got right up against the door, i had the window up. i told him to go away, he didnt. i repeatedly told him i wasnt going to give him anything and to get away from me. with each time my tone of voice got angrier and angrier, finally i told to to get the f@*k away from me and he finally left. it definately unnerved me and i was tempted to reach for my gun, but he wasnt threatening me, so i didnt. i dont think it would be appropriate in the situation you proposed either.

[chris in va]

I love stories like these. Hopefully I won't have one to tell but we'll see.

[Maxprime]

Agreed - that is brandishing and is not a wise move.

Situations like this are what convinced me to get pepper spray. I go over to my side of the car (leaving space) and say, "Sir, you followed me to the parking lot and you're now blocking access to my car. Please move or I will be forced to call the police." At this point he's either going to move, do something and get sprayed (I have the spray ready to go), or wait for me to call the cops.

I say this because on my car if you unlock the passenger side you unlock them all - something I'm definitely not doing.

I will say this - I've talked with a few women I know about defending themselves in situations like this. One thing I always stress is BE LOUD!!! If people are around, you have to scream out - somebody help me this guy won't let me into my car! If you make a scene and look like the victim, things are only going to go badly for him.

[LAK]

When you see 'em coming your way, ask them for five bucks first ;)

[OBIWAN]

Like everything....the devil is in the details...the picture is open to interpetation

But in general...it is a bad idea to let anyone get that close to you. Your options become severely limited.

Handing them an money puts you too close for comfort

At some point I would likely assume the "interview stance" and tell him not to come any closer.

If he aproached after that you would be safe in assuming hostile intent or mental illness. Either would make calling the police justifiable and defendable.

[Guy B. Meredith]

Betty and PAX,

Panhandlers are almost invariably lying. Even the gas gauge routine is probably learned from previous experience.

The local news station did a bit on panhandlers in SF, focusing on one man who had lost a leg and claimed to be a veteran. Turns out he scams over $70,000 a year from suckers. He blows the whole lot on drugs each day and then goes back looking for more suckers.

I refuse to donate to any panhandlers as it just encourages them and any comments about their story simply gives them a chance to train for the next time. Any money I hand out will go to organizations that know which people really need it and use it well.

The man described in the original message has obviously been down the path and learned the trick necessary to relieve passive dupes of their cash.

[snacktrack]

I live in the city now, lived in NYC, went to school in Philadelphia. Boy do I have extensive experience with dealing with people asking me for money. First thing, while having your peripheral vision on them the whole time, poiltely say" no, sorry I dont." But dont stop for them, keep walking. Dont ever go digging into your pockets.

It is not your responsibility to pay for people's gas, food, drug problems, etc.

I had one time, while walking to school had a woman squat down and piss on the sidewalk while asking me for money as I walked by. I didnt even acknowledge her existence. I usually do not even answer people asking for money when I am in Philly.

I one time had an escalation in a parking lot with a bum asking me and my friends for money. It was a dark alleyway, and we were walking to my car and almost the exact scenario you described at the beginning of this thread happened. Except this guy was yelling, demanding money and when I told him none of us were giving him money and that he had better leave. He stared me down and started threatening me. I told everyone to get in the car while I stood there with my back to the car between him making sure the girl with me and the other two really puny guys were in the car. Not ever turning my back I got into the car watching him the whole time. I really thought I was going to have to fight this guy. It turned out ok.

The common scam in big cities is for people to act like they are parking lot attendents and they ask you for money to park your car, and you arent sure whether to believe them or not. I never fall for this scam. I always say, "nice try" and I laugh. I say "dont worry the next guy will be stupider than me, you will make your money"

[Whitefalls]

I have to say my car load, on the way to a concert, fell for the parking lot attendant trick. (I wasn't driving so I accept no responsibility ;) ) Gave the "parking attendant" 5 bucks and parked. As we're getting out, the real parking attendant came over and told us we got scammed. He said they are out there doing it everytime there is a concert at this place. He was wearing the uniform and everything so we knew he was legit. We gave him the 5 bucks, then tracked down the scammer who was just around the block. We confronted him and told him to give us our money back. He said he already gave it to his manger. RIIIIIIGHT! So we demanded that he take us to his manager to get our money back. As he was trying to ignore us and walk away, the parking attended came around the corner in a van with the parking lot logo on it and cut the guy off from leaving, and told him to give us our money back or he was calling the police. All of a sudden, the guy magically had our 5 bucks back that he had already given to his manager, and wasn't too happy about having to hand it back over.

I'm in Atlanta every day now, and there's no shortage of pan handlers and I have to tell them no on a daily basis. You can definitely call the police if they repeatedly harass you, or if they touch you at all.