View Full Version : Scenario: Another "invades your space" type with a twist

April 13, 2002, 09:17 AM
My wife and I have both been practicing Self Preservation - a combination of JKD, Kali, Escrima, Dumog, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, improvised weapons, etc. Paul Vunak advocates a fast response to invasion of space, quickly countering with a head butt and straightblast. I, on the other hand, would like to stay out of jail, so I would probably be less inclined to head butt someone who bumps into me.

Ok, here's the scenario:

SO and you are walking around the outdoor mall. You have an Emerson Commander in your right hand pocket, pepper spray in your fanny pack, riding in front for easy access, and a Glock 30 IWB. SO has an Emerson Commander also, but no pepper. Both of you are practiced in the aforementioned arts.

Derelect, who is upwind of you loitering along the edge of the sidewalk and who smells strongly of chemicals (there's a stiff wind coming from that direction) and is acting eratically (eyes darting around, fidgety, and looking around *a lot*), sees you walking towards him and you make eye contact. You realize when you made eye contact that something didn't quite feel right. You think the best thing to do would be to get to the other side of the street, however there's a couple of fast moving cars coming, and all the stores are closed, so there's not a quick duck-n-cover spot. You could turn around, however there's another goon similar to him on the next block back as well.

As you get closer, derelect #1 begins to walk towards you. You know he's coming at you and you change your path. His path changes too. There are lots of people around - it's a crowded street, other derelects, shoppers, people driving by, etc.

Ok, now he's within 15 feet of you and closing, but there's a couple of people in between you and Derelect. You're feeling the need to do something as he's getting too close. He has no visible weapons but is wearing an oversize coat that has some rips in it. Again, there are people all over the place, but for some reason he chose *you* to walk towards. You don't know what he wants, but you can smell the chemicals through the crowd and suspect him, and he is clearly walking towards you. You're uncomfortable but are not convinced there's a threat.

Do you start an offensive move? Do you break and run? Do you just keep an eye on him and wait for him to make the first move? Do you get the knife out of your pocket and the pepper open and ready? What do you do?

mike waidelich
April 13, 2002, 10:40 AM
As prepared and ready as you are, it is highly unlikely that this cretin would choose you as a victim. You would probably appear far too prepared, alert, and confidant. So either you are mistaken about his intent (he wants to bum a cigarette and you look like a smoker) or he is on a mission and you are his target. Do you have that kind of enemies?

The appropriate course of action is to stop, with a nice spread between you and the wife, make your hands disappear in a way that lets him know you are armed, and make solid eye contact. Most would be muggers would go look for another victim at that point. You got too good a look at him and you will suddenly appear to be a tough target. They prefer meek, easily intimidated targets.

If he continues his approach, tell him to stop and to keep his distance. If that doesn't work, you can be reasonably certain he has something nefarious in mind and respond as you have trained. Even if you are mistaken at that point, you probably have sufficient arguable cause to stay clear of any legal charges, and if you don't it is still better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.

Have a plan. Be reasonable in your actions. Use no more force than is needed.

April 13, 2002, 06:38 PM
Hmm...chemicals, torn overcoat, acting figdety - sounds like a suicide bomber to me.

First I would suggest you and wifey lay down a cloud of pepper spray to confuse the potential martyr. Run around him in circles as you do this, yell "Alluh Akbar !!!" as loud as you can, keep spraying. By this time he should be turning in circles rubbing his eyes. Good, this means he can't set off the bomb. Now, as he's stumbling around blinded by the OC spray, have your wife crouch down directly behind his lower legs. Quickly, if your JKD is good, administer a flying drop kick to the bomber's midsection. As he flies over your wife's back, double tap to COM with the Glock 30. And finally, just to be safe, cut off his hands with the Emerson so there's no way he can set off the bomb. By this time the mall ninjas should be showing up. Wash the blood off and smile for the cameras, your a hero :cool:.

April 13, 2002, 06:42 PM
BTW, I teach tactics like this to local mall security teams. If your interested, I could do a demonstration.

April 13, 2002, 07:30 PM
You are tooooo funny!!:D

April 13, 2002, 07:39 PM
Doh !

April 13, 2002, 07:43 PM
Sorry folks, my expertise is mall counter terrorism, not computers :o, I'll try again.

April 13, 2002, 10:00 PM
Oh my GOD! You're killing me! :D

April 14, 2002, 06:56 PM
with two of you knowing this many kinds of hand to hand stuff, why would you be afraid of anyone. That does not even count the knives, guns, and god knows what else. I would have just whistled Dixie,and dared the person to give it his best shot. lol

April 15, 2002, 10:59 AM
First of all, there are two things I don't think I would do in this case:

a) Sustain direct eye contact
b) Run like hell

Holding eye contact with a potential felon (assuming he is dangerous) is an open invitation for trouble. Odds are he will see this as a challenge, and will more likely call it than break it off. Hence: while in caution mode, use your peripheral vision.

Take advantage, too, of ordinary things that reflect images (e.g. store-front windows, waxed cars, chromed appliances, etc.). It's actually a lot of fun practicing to see how much information you can gather from indirect observation. For instance: the next time you're in the left lane behind several vehicles at a traffic stop, try determining the make and model of the vehicle just beyond the one in front of you by looking at its reflection on shiny cars in the right lane.

As far as hauling ass before any indication of the other one's intent... would you run if you were confronted by a mad dog that hasn't sized you up yet? Just like an animal, the goon that sees you running may very well charge at you, having sensed your fear.

Don't embolden a potential assailant by waving a white flag in his face. Let him know that you are confident and prepared even as you passively gain your distance.

April 15, 2002, 01:18 PM
My wife and I have both been practicing Self Preservation - a combination of JKD, Kali, Escrima, Dumog, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, improvised weapons, etc.

I was under the mistaken impression that Self Preservation was a combination of fast Nikes, staying alert, keeping a 1911 on your hip, and avoiding neighborhoods containing derelicts that whiff of chemicals. ;)

April 16, 2002, 03:49 PM
Eye contact goes back to the primate within us (and all you folks who think that we just got "appeared" suddenly can just hit the "back" button...). When you make eye contact with many primates, they become aggressive, because that's the trigger for them. So if you're in a facility with primates, you don't look at their eyes, and they don't throw excrement at you. As much.

Kirk Keller
April 17, 2002, 07:22 AM
I'll second Tamara's response...:D

April 19, 2002, 02:24 AM
well if he keeps on following me. i'll place my hand in my pocket and warn him to stop following me. if he continues and all the legal crap is legal to do (what ever that means). i'll throw a brick at him. i'll tell my wife to get the LEO's. if he continues to do that, i'll pull out the glock 18 with 50rd hi-cap mag inside and select full-auto. i'll aim for his head and empty the mag on his head (being sure no innocent by-standers are out of the way, very serious). then i'll take the mag out and beat it on his head over and over again and yell out...Apu Nahassapinapettallon.

Joe Demko
April 19, 2002, 07:29 AM
Perhaps my years as a teacher in a ghetto school and as a deputy sheriff color my responses, but I wouldn't handle it the way you guys are at all. My response would be
1. Keep striding purposefully in the direction I had originally intended to go.
2. Make brief and deliberate eye contact with the -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- in question as a non-verbal way of indicating "I see you, Mr. -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-."
3. If Mr. -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- makes any move to intersect my path, Voice him. e.g.. say in a firm, clearly audible voice "Keep your distance you *&^%&^%^$&!!!!! -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-!"
4. Draw the pepper spray and give it a couple shakes in his view.
5. If Timmy -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- the Wino still doesn't get the message, hose him down with some of Fox's spicy best. Remember: spray early, spray often.
6. Since two people are involved, it should be easy to exit the AO w/o getting blindsided by said -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-.
7. It goes w/o saying that if this -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- displays or gives the impression he has a weapon at any point during this cotillion, that you go ahead and shoot him.

Don't let a -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- ruin your day. Walk around it. If you are forced to step in it, scrape it off your shoes and go on with your life.