View Full Version : Super Fast Opening Patterns

July 11, 1999, 05:37 PM
Another low-traffic day on TFL, so here's an idea I toyed with a few years ago, along the lines of the "Depleted Uranium Needle At Near Light Speed" thread. Indulge me, here. :)

When I first got my shotgun, I tried to think of how to design a buckshot load that would open up super fast, stricly for indoor defensive use, with no friendlies around to worry about.

Picture a plastic shotcup, such as for birdshot. The "petals" splay outward when the cup leaves the muzzle, and air resistance catches them, allowing the denser pellets to travel down range unhindered.

Now turn the shotcup backwards, and make it out of extra stiff plastic. And instead of four flat petals, make it nine of them, each with a little cup at the end. Or four of them, with two cups along the length of each one. The opening of each cup faces outward, against the inner wall of the barrel. In each cup is a pellet of buckshot. (I realize there are practical considerations of what will fit inside a 12 gauge barrel, but this is a hypothetical topic.)

As the inverted cup leaves the muzzle, the gas pressure pushes each petal outward, and flings the pellets, catapult-style, all over the damn place.

The "practical" application of this technology is best summed up by Samuel Jackson in the movie "Jackie Brown":

"When you absolutely, positively got to kill every m****r-f****r in the room..."



July 15, 1999, 11:10 AM
I think you would have to have a way to keep the wad from collapsing upon itself from the gas pressure pushing the wad in on itself.
Perhaps adding an object or objects(larger steel ball[s]) in the center of the "rose petal" and pre-fragmenting the petals. The ball(s) would push into the petal thus keeping the petals from turning inwards. The perforated or pre-fragmented petals would allow the center ball(s) to keep the pattern from ending up doughnut shaped.

Art Eatman
July 15, 1999, 03:49 PM
Get some balsa wood and get to carving! Test a few different shapes. If you're not already a shotgun reloader, you could pull shot charges from some 00 and insert your contraptions...If one of your designs works, somebody can do it in plastic.

If it works as you think, you'll have created a whole new market!

Have at it!


July 16, 1999, 03:07 AM
A whole new market? Mr. Eatman, I do believe you are making fun of me. And if so, you're right! :)

If not, you're definitely "not right!" ;)

I'm not a reloader, but I might just give it a try. Blowing up rotten fruit, Ramen noodles, computer monitors, and VCRs can only hold my attention for so long.

fal- I think I get what you're saying. The petals would fold in on themselves, like a flower blossoming in reverse. Hmmm...

Perhaps if the backwards shot cup had a STIFF post in the middle of it, extending back between the petals to the wad, to keep the whole thing from compressing. Sort of like the collapsing recoil/acceleration reducer in, say, Federal shells, but without the collapsing bit. Don't know what would be stiff enough, though, without becoming a de facto 'slug'.

A solid cylinder of plastic, with each petal being 1/4 of the cylinder, might work better. Need to drill a hole or something down the center to let the gasses get in there...hinge it at the foreward end...mutter...mutter...putter...grumble...putter...putter...

OH! I'm sorry. I got lost in a train of so called "thought". Gotta get into the workshop now...


Art Eatman
July 16, 1999, 11:02 PM
Hey, Boing, it sounds like a Y2K Survival load to me!

July 17, 1999, 01:10 AM
OMIGOD! YOU'RE RIGHT! I could be indpendently wealthy by Christmas time! :D

I was absently fiddling with a Marks-A-Lot marker a few hours ago. It's slightly tapered, and will only fit about 1/2 way into the muzzle of the 12 gauge. Perfect.

And I have the weekend off. Also perfect.

And I have nothing else to do. The Clincher.


July 18, 1999, 02:06 PM
If this works out are you going to sell loaded ammo?

July 18, 1999, 11:07 PM
No, but I'll post my results, and how I achieved them. Then you can Adopt, Adapt, and Improve.

It's just a silly experiment. Federal 16 pellet #1 buck for me!


July 19, 1999, 04:00 PM
what i want is a modern Blunderbluss

There is nothing that says "oops"
like an 8 inch belled muzzle
make mine in 18 inch barreled, 6 shot pump

i realize the bell diameter exceeds the pattern size at EOB

thats the point



Blue Jays
July 20, 1999, 11:39 PM
Hi Boing-

What if the post was made out of extremely lightweight, thin-walled aluminum? Would that be enough to allow it to not be slug, yet give enough support?

If there are any TFL'ers out there who work in a machine shop, they might be able to give some feedback on metallurgy and the best raw materials to use. Very interesting.


~ Blue Jays ~

Long Path
July 23, 1999, 02:04 AM
Too esoteric. Just hack off a hunk of pine dowel with a hacksaw, and stick it in there. Recognize that the center rigidity post takes up space that should be taken up by valuable buckshot.

The hard part is setting up the pockets in the petals for the pellets for the the porting and the pocking of the potential ptargets. Or something.

Art Eatman
July 23, 1999, 05:02 PM
Er, Boing, old chap: Nothing to do this weekend? Have you considered that even in North Carolina there might be (dare I say it?) women?

Should you, perhaps, already have a sweetling in the homestead, consider the possible delights resulting from unexpected flowers!


July 25, 1999, 02:00 AM
I would be delighted to get some unexpected flowers from my wife, but that's not really her style. :)


August 14, 1999, 09:45 AM
guys- there is a very obvious way to get a very large pattern at close range. Replace your barrel with a rifled 12 gauge barrel designed for slug. When you try to "pattern" this with shot- be prepared for a 30 inch pattern at possibly 30ft!! This is what I use for house defense. Normally at the 10-20 ft range of room to room encounters the pattern is the size of a silver doller at best. The rifling opens this up tremendously.

August 18, 1999, 04:21 PM
I agree. A rifled barrel is the trick. Try #4 Buck. Lead all over the place.

The Second Ammendment is not about the right to hunt.