View Full Version : The most sick'n'twisted 12ga load ever?

Jim March
April 5, 1999, 07:55 PM
Over in rec.guns, we were talking about the ballistic possibilities of the smallest functional combat handguns made, the NAA Minirevolvers in .22Magnum. See them at www.naaminis.com - they're cool. Also totally undetectable in a pocket, making them roundly disliked by "the powers that

Anyhow, they have a 5shot cylinder that is nearly perfectly sized for a 12gauge shotgun barrel. Said cylinder is easy to remove because that's the only way to load the little barstards (note: small gun with potent ammo equals KICK. Biiiiig kick. Lotsa fun at ranges showing people who mistake
them for toys that they *ain't*. Bring Band-Aids.)

So you take that cylinder, load it with 5 Magnum rimfire rounds, stick it in a 3" Magnum shotgun shell in front of a healthy charge. The shotgun powder blast should crank off all five rimfire projectiles, which would pepper the target prior to obliterating it with a flying chunk of stainless steel with five "cookie cutter" holes.

The possibilities for a truly confoosed coroner are endless.

Jim March

Art Eatman
April 6, 1999, 12:56 AM
NAA revolvers kick? Noisy, yes; kick, no. I have found that a first shot tends to go high, if I'm in a hurry, so my aiming point is below the belt. The next four are easily put into a reasonably small group...

Your shotgun blast could send pieces of your shotgun's barrel flying out in quite a few directions. You'd be putting a lot of weight in front of the charge, and the "shot load" could well have the effect of a barrel plugged with mud...

How about a little 12-gauge plastic cylinder which could be sealed to hold about an ounce of mercury? Or drill a 1/4" hole down into a jacketed hollow-point bullet in some largish pistol caliber? Add mercury, or strychnine, or? Aw, heck, go milk a rattlesnake!

cornered rat
April 6, 1999, 12:33 PM
I would recommend a 10ga loaded with weasels.

Or, better yet: catch a rattlesnake. stick it into a tube, with the head protruding. Attach pop-up fins to the tube to stabilize it. Fire at the target.

12ga muck-shot with statists in it would be nasty...but how could we fit enough of them into a small shell? We could just use the RPG/Panzerfaust design and have the payload outside of a barrel, on a stick. However, the concept of stick-up-the-ass could violate the original copyright by NYPD :)

April 10, 1999, 02:12 PM
I liked the solid copper hollow point sabot... They looked wicked lined up on the sidesaddle...
Effective? You better believe it! Thos erounds would fly to any range and plaster the target but good!

"There is no Spoon"

David Schmidbauer
April 10, 1999, 05:25 PM
Why not just use some 12 gauge Quik-Shoks? I've seen what these do to a block of Ballistic Gell. It "cuts" the block into 4 pieces. Other 12 guage slugs just make a "normal" cavity (large but normal :) )

If you want a devistating slug Quik-Shok is the one to use.

Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

April 10, 1999, 07:21 PM

Where would I be able to purchase some 12 gauge Quik-Shoks?


David Schmidbauer
April 10, 1999, 08:49 PM
Hell... if I knew that I'd have some. ;) I only got to see them during testing. I'm wanting about 100 to test in my 1201.

Maybe someone else can help us.

Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

Art Eatman
April 11, 1999, 11:19 PM
I thought of a really neat sick'n'twisted load, but then I thought, "Naahhh, that's too sick and twisted, even for me." This group is already too sick and twisted...

April 12, 1999, 08:02 AM
In the book "Patriot Games" author Tom Clancy talks about a really cool 12g round. It is a 12g shell loaded with darts! Like the one you can get at Wal-Mart for the Shootin-Darts BB gun! waht do you think of that!

I want a Heckler&Koch MP-5K with the tactical briefcase for my birthday!!!!

April 12, 1999, 01:17 PM
You're talking about the flechette rounds. Basically they're fin-stabilized darts. "Flechette-loaded shotgun ammunition was developed about 1950 by Irwin R. Barr formulated the concept of employing high-velocity, low-drag, finned projectiles for increased range and reduced time of flight in small-caliber, distribution-type ammunition. He proposed to employ the concept in rounds for the 50 machine gun, for 12 gauge shotguns and for .45 caliber pistols and submachine guns." Quote from page 464 of The World's Fighting Shotguns by Thomas F. Swearengen. This book is generally considered the text on fighting shotguns and related developments.
Chapter Ten of this volume deals with shotgun ammunition types including multilpe-projectile, buckshot, flechette, single-projectile, the U.S. Navy Silent Shotgun Shell, tear gas, explosive, flares and nonlethal riot-control ammunition.

James K
April 12, 1999, 03:18 PM
I think they loaded a fletchette round for the 105mm Howitzer. Now that is one mean shotgun.

April 15, 1999, 09:04 PM
O.K. I like the rattlesnake idea, but how about some real rounds? The gun shows usually have the exotic stuff and I know some degenerates have played around with their shells..

Some things I have seen:

Triple Slug- three small slugs stacked one behind the other.

Buck & Ball- A short slug with buckshot behind it.

Ball and Chain- Don't know the exact name, but this is two pieces of buckshot that is connected by a wire. Imagine that flying/spinning as it hits the target!
If memory serves correctly, I recall something similiar done on ships with cannons to take out the enemy's masts, sails, & rigging.

Dimes- A nutty friend of mine loaded some shells with, you guessed it, dimes. A good answer for BGs who ask you for some change...Shooting them at a 50 gallon drum, he noticed that they impacted at different angles..

April 15, 1999, 10:40 PM
RCH: I saw the "Macho Gaucho" load (two balls connected by a wire) in an unsolicited catalog I recieved from Firequest. My question is, would it actually spin as intended?

Art Eatman
April 15, 1999, 11:18 PM
Mort: Unless there was something aerodynamically tricky in the shape of the balls of the load, I doubt it would spin. The balls would separate, however, and make a helluva cheesecutter...

April 16, 1999, 09:11 AM
.....but not necessarily horizontally, rendering them somewhat useless.

April 16, 1999, 01:20 PM
Not that it is applicable in this case but the American Rifleman ran an article when I was a kid, (a long time ago) about using various chained cannonball attaching devices during the Civil War. It was amusing. I guess there was panic as the connected cannonballs went all over the place, cut down some trees and killed a cow. None of the eventual targets were in the line of sight.

Art Eatman
April 16, 1999, 11:20 PM
The chained cannonball was more useful in the days of sailing ships, to try to dismast or to wipe out the sails of an opponent.

April 17, 1999, 01:17 AM
Langrage, I believe it was called? Hell, it's only been 18 years since I've read about it...

Art Eatman
April 17, 1999, 10:25 AM
JHolmes: By Jove! I forget just *what* we called it! :)

AR Man
April 19, 1999, 03:54 PM
FYI Jim Keenan there is a flechette round for the 105 mm howitzer it is called a "beehive" round and was used for perimeter defense. It is a VERY EFFECTIVE round against ground personnel. It has no match.

James K
April 19, 1999, 06:57 PM
That's the one. I thought it was called the "beehive", but didn't want to expose my ignorance if wrong. Like I said, though, THAT is one MEEEAAN shotgun!

April 26, 1999, 07:26 AM
Rock salt has anyone ever shot or been shot at with rock salt? seriously :)

John G
April 26, 1999, 10:00 AM
How do you reseal shotgun rounds after you've altered their loads?

-Live free or die
www.acs.brockport.edu/~jg5708/gunclub.htm (http://www.acs.brockport.edu/~jg5708/gunclub.htm)

April 27, 1999, 10:15 AM
Back in my misspent youth, my friends and I were shot at several times by railroad detectives with rocksalt. One time they just missed me and hit my friend. He soaked in a tub for hours and had trouble sitting for a week.

May 4, 1999, 12:59 AM
Wyatt Earp used to put a couple dozen dimes in his shotgun, it was supposed to be make some real damned nasty holes.

May 4, 1999, 03:12 PM
Put steel ball bearings the size of buckshot in a shotshell. Use it against hard targets or penetration through glass.

May 4, 1999, 04:11 PM
to John G.
a cheap way to experement with shotgun loads is to use a sharp instrument to open the crimp. I used a dart since that was handy, then dump the lead shot out and insert the new projectiles. To close the crimp of the shotshell I used a old Lee Loader kit that I paid $9 for many years ago.

I have never loaded rocksalt but it should not be difficult by this method. I used to open trap loads and after removing the #8 shot inserted 9 pellets of 0 buckshot. This worked just fine for IPSC matches, low recoil and enough energy to take down the plates. I believe the "tacical" load from Federal and others can be duplicated this way.

May 6, 1999, 02:05 PM
00 buck can be made to shoot through something like a quarter inch of steel if the shotshell is cut around the base, leaving just a couple little tabs to hold it together, similar to door breaching shells.

May 7, 1999, 01:18 AM
Headroom.... HALT!!!! never put a solid hard object that chamber sized and expect it to safely transit the barrel... the pressures are HUGELY increased and barrel failure is very possible. If you want a good door load , use 12 or 16 pellets of #1 buck , its still 30 caliber and is also the best anti personel round possible... whats 9 33cal vs 12 30 cal??? I'll go with 12 vs 9 any time.

Also a great tactic for CQC is to shoot the buckshot into a hard pavement 1/2 to 3/4 of the distance to the target. The shot tends to become flattened washers and are very nasty to the BG's legs and torso.

You can also put mollasses into the buckshot and that holds it close together for a longer distance.

Be safe.... never exceed safe parameters.

What part of "INFRINGED" don't they understand?

Keith Rogan
May 9, 1999, 10:12 AM
The simplest, safest (to the shooter) and most twisted round is called the "cut-shell".
Using light bird shot, you merely cut the circumference of the plastic just over the wadding with a deep groove. When you fire the shell the entire shot charge comes out as a projectile encased in the plastic casing. When it strikes a target its something like a hand grenade going off.

The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan (http://members.xoom.com/keithrogan)

cornered rat
May 11, 1999, 03:56 PM
"Pre-cut" shot shell is the same concept as Glaser...only a Glaser scaled up to 12ga size. It could work...

Cornered Rat
ddb.com/RKBA (http://ddb.com/RKBA) Updated March 20
"Disarm, then past the barbed wire, into the oven and out of the smoke-stack..."

May 15, 1999, 03:15 PM
This is a sick'n'twisted load I thought about last night after reading this thread. If you could get shot that was hollowed out and then filled with a toxic substance say Mercury. When the shot hit a person, the shot should deform enough to release the substance into the target. Is that sick'n'twisted enough?

May 17, 1999, 07:07 PM
There used to be a round called the Remington SP4xBB, I don't know if they still make it.

Anyhow, I believe it had 9 rounds of #4 shot, and was followed by a few layers of BB's. Pretty nasty stuff. Wish I could find them still...

The Flechette rounds are pretty cool, I had the opportunity to get a case of them and missed out on it, unfortunately.


Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com (http://www.bladeforums.com)

David Z
May 19, 1999, 02:55 PM
Make a cut-shell round, but dump out the lead shot and replace it with birdshot-sized balls of metallic sodium (sealed up from moisture, naturally). Assuming the cut-shell works as designed, it will break apart when it hits, and fill the target with a zillion chunks of sodium. Sodium reacts violently with water, producing heat and hydrogen gas... so the wound will heat up massively, and in fact will be actually flaming. The residue left in the wound after this reaction is sodium hydroxide (lye). Yikes!

[This message has been edited by David Z (edited May 19, 1999).]

May 25, 1999, 01:31 PM
Here's an unusual one, not so much a super-nasty defense load, but a quiet deer-poaching trick:

Take your kid's break-action .410 single shot and one .410 shell (standard or magnum), pry open the shell crimp and pour out the shot charge. Leave the shotcup or wad in place, along with the powder charge.

Next, get an aluminum hunting arrow, the kind with flexible rubber fletching. Stick the arrow's nock into the .410 case. Carefully roll the "feathers" against the arrow shaft and cram the entire arrow and shell into the breech. The tip of the arrow should clear the muzzle by a few inches, even squeezing through the full choke that is common in single-shot scatterguns. You complete it by screwing the hunting broadhead in place.

When fired, the arrow springs from the muzzle with a muted *POP*, since there is less compression on the powder charge. As the arrow clears the muzzle, those rubber fins pop right back out, stabilizing the arrow. With practice, it is a very effective way of harvesting deer that lurk out there beyond bow range. Typically, the arrow goes clean through.