howcome I never hear anything about .45 GAP?

[Erikbal]

I see and read tons of posts on here, but since I joined in Jan I haven't seen ONE post or ever a mention about the .45 GAP. Is it simply not a popular cartridge or not as desirable? What are the main differences between the GAP and ACP? My friend has a .45 GAP, I've never seen it up close or even shot it though. I think it's a Beretta but I could be wrong. Thanks for the help guys!

[Double Naught Spy]

Did you do a search for 45 GAP?

[jmr40]

The GAP is a shortened 45 ACP designed to fit in smaller guns. It comes very close to standard 45 ACP power levels because it comes loaded to P+ levels. When 45 ACP is loaded to P+ levels it is quite a bit more powerful.

Most, includng myself, don't see the point and are not interested. It has never had a big following and has probably peaked in popularity. Not completely dead, but slowly wilting away.

[3kgt2nv]

it was an attempt to increase capacity for a 45 and reduce the size of the firearm. the solution that has been more readily accepted in the gun world is the 40s&w round that fills the same gap between the 9mm and the 45acp

[Incognito]

I would have to agree with jmr40. The .45 GAP was developed in order to fit a .45 diameter bullet into a 9MM/.40S&W Glock frame for people who didn't have gorilla hands. Then the Glock 21SF came out followed by the Gen4 .45 ACP Glocks which are essentially the same size as the 21SF, so realistically there's no need for the .45 GAP anymore.

Just recently I traded a G37 (purchased before the G21SF came out) for a Gen4 G21. It uses a bigger/better bullet and carries more of them, among other things.

[jimbob86]

It comes very close to standard 45 ACP power levels because it comes loaded to P+ levels.

If someone wants to launch 180-ish grain bullets at .45GAP speeds, the .40 S&W will do that, at similar pressures, with higher capacity, and at lower cost..... .45 ACP+p will outdo .45GAP with no real advantage for the latter ......

No, it's not exactly dead...... just in a flat spin, and losing altitude fast. ..... if you shoot it, hoard brass for it.

[Erikbal]

Sorry no I didn't search, I'm using my phone and for some reason the search function doesn't always work right for me. Thanks for the responses so far guys.

[G19OD]

Eric, the .45 GAP is generally hated by non-users. Posting anything positive about it will lead to general derision by the non users. However, 5 state police agencies have adopted it (perhaps at a cost to the various states that could not be refused), but the officers using it seem to prefer it over other calibers. See this link: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1397816
The naysayers will mention that the GAP is an answer to a question that was never asked, etc, etc. However, if you have smaller hands or might appreciate the softer perceived recoil offered by the GAP, then try it for yourself and make your own decision.

Ducking and running........

[Officer's Match]

If someone wants to launch 180-ish grain bullets at .45GAP speeds, the .40 S&W will do that, at similar pressures, with higher capacity, and at lower cost..... .45 ACP+p will outdo .45GAP with no real advantage for the latter ......

Hah hah, that's a good one. Oh wait, you were serious? Umm, OK...

Not even remotely accurate. The GAP runs at hot 45acp pressure, almost half of what the snappy and inaccurate 40SW runs at.

I used to be the King of the GAP-bashers. One range session with a Glock 38 profoundly changed that. It is the best Glock you can buy. Hell, I think it's the best overall handgun you can buy. I'm not kidding.

[insaneranger]

45 GAP is a good performing ammo in a smaller package, but at twice the price. I think that's why it didn't catch on.

[Creek Henry]

Didn't a few Glocks in 45gap blow up? That might have hurt its rep some.

[Walt Sherrill]

I don't handload, so I buy from folks like Georgia-Arms. Their .45 GAP is about the same price as .45 ACP -- which has caused me to rethink .45 GAP.

(I like the smaller platform -- as the Glock 38 is physically similar to the Glock 19, which is a great size. The larger Glock 45 just doesn't feel right in my hand, but the 38 does.)

[Slamfire]

I don't remember the issue, but an article in American Handgunner showed that 45GAP was very popular among State Police Departments.

These guys shoot factory ammunition so reloading is not an issue.

I suspect the 45GAP is a good blend of power, compactness, and recoil.

It is my recollection the 40 S&W was the most common cop round.

[SIGSHR]

The 45 GAP seems to be another proprietary cartrudge that never caught on.

[Tom Servo]

There are a couple of problems with the .45 GAP.

The first is the initial promise that was made to prospective LEO agencies: that the new guns would fit in the same holsters as the .40/9mm models. Not having to switch out duty gear saves a lot of money, and the prospect seemed appealing. However, the gun needed some revisions between conception and execution, and a wider slide was one of them. That advantage was lost.

The second is the fact that almost nobody outside of Glock manufactures a pistol for the loading. Springfield briefly made the XD pistols for it, but those have been discontinued.

True or not, the perception is that the round isn't taking off, and that leads to a vicious circle that keeps it from really taking off.

[ScottRiqui]

The second is the fact that almost nobody outside of Glock manufactures a pistol for the loading. Springfield briefly made the XD pistols for it, but those have been discontinued.

Same with the Springfield EMP, although it never even made it to the production stage chambered in .45 GAP.

[TheGoldenState]

Not even remotely accurate. The GAP runs at hot 45acp pressure, almost half of what the snappy and inaccurate 40SW runs at.

I used to be the King of the GAP-bashers. One range session with a Glock 38 profoundly changed that. It is the best Glock you can buy. Hell, I think it's the best overall handgun you can buy. I'm not kidding.

So you were talking without knowing? Do you make a habit out of that (ie: have you actually shot a .40sw)?

Snappy, i'd argue, inaccurate I laugh at.

True or not, the perception is that the round isn't taking off, and that leads to a vicious circle that keeps it from really taking off.

Is that like eating because you're depressed, and depressed because you're heavy?

[jimbob86]

.45 G.A.P. pressure is SAAMI-established at a maximum of 23,000 psi, but was tested up to 35,000 psi. Actual pres*sure of the released round runs between 19,900 and 20,500 psi to be "on the safe side."

I stand corrected ..... .40 S&W runs to 33K ...... .45 GAP is equal to .45 ACP+p pressure wise.....

but.....

The .45 GAP has the same pressure issue (although to a lesser extent) that the .40 S&W does, particularly with 230 gr bullets:

Even in the same firearm, with the same components, cartridges with low powder capacity and high operating pressures, such as the .40 S&W, have been shown to have a significant increase in pressure with very minor differences in bullet seating depth. One example in .40 S&W demonstrated a 20% pressure increase with a 0.05 inch (1.2 mm) change in seating depth.*

TANSTAAFL, especially in physics.

The question is:

Is .45 ACP performance, at the cost of .45ACP+p pressures, with some of the same case capacity/pressure issue of the .40 S&W (compounded by the unsupported chamber of the Glock handgun .... true, pretty much a non-issue for folks who don't reload, but I do......) worth .140" OAL? Capacity (dictated by cartridge diameter) will be the same, in similar pistol designs .... The Market, the Ultimate Arbiter, says no.....

..... you pick your choice, pay your money and take your chances ..... Me, I'd buy a .45 GAP EMP before I bought one in .40 S&W, but such a thing is not made.... and by the looks of things, I'd have to hoard brass if I did.....


*Can you say, "Bullet setback?" .... I knew you could!....

[ms6852]

I thought 45 gap was a marketing tool for clothing.

[Yankee Doodle]

Issued caliber of the NYSP. Most of the Troopers I have spoken to are quite happy with it. However, most of this group were happier with the 9mm they used to have. Less recoil. faster follow up shots, cheaper ammo it they want to practice on their own dime.
I, for one, would prefer either the .45ACP, or .357 SIG. Of course, if you have read my past posts, I don't think much of any Glock products. Wouldn't own another Glock pistol, however, the .45 GAP is still a wonderful solution to a non-existant problem.
You pays your money, and makes your choice.

[dalegribble]

the 45 gap was a solution for a problem that didn't exist.

[Walt Sherrill]

the 45 gap was a solution for a problem that didn't exist.

The problem did exist: larger rounds limiting capacity in most handguns. Most of the guns with more than an 8-round capacity are pretty big -- both in terms of the weapon that must fit in a holster and in the size of the grip. I find the full-size Glocks in .45 awkward, to say the least.

The Glock 38 (and similar guns) allows more rounds in a smaller frame. In many police departments, people with smaller hands -- which includes some of the female LEOs -- the 38 is a better solution.

There was a problem -- but objective observers could argue that the solution offered wasn't the only solution, or perhaps the best. That said, I happen to like the 38 and guns of that smaller size, and shooting it seems more manageable for me than other similar capacity .45s. (I haven't tried some of the newer .45s like the S&W M&P, and wonder how they compare.)

[Spats McGee]

For a while, I wanted a Glock, and I looked at the .45 GAP. Ammo and brass availability were an issue for me. Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen .45 GAP at any of my LGSs, or at a gun show. .45 ACP, on the other hand, could be purchased by the truckload, finances permitting. Also, at some point, I'd like to start reloading practice rounds, and there's a whole lotta .45 brass out there.

I don't hate the .45 GAP. Never fired a single round of it. I don't need to, though. I think that there are plenty of less expensive, more plentiful cartridges that will meet my needs.

[Silent Bob]

Local shops here don't even stock 45 GAP anymore.

[zombieslayer]

You probably dont hear as much about it because its not an extremely popular round, imo.