Rock River AR-15 Test Fired at Factory?

steve1147 · April 9, 2011, 03:43 PM

Just bought a 'new' Rock River AR-15 in .223 Remington from a local dealer who claims to have a factory certified guy (armorer?) build them on-site.
I was in-store to order my rifle, waited, and it was ready an hour later. I know they couldn't have 'test-fired' it there 'cause the business is in town. Still, when I got it home and tore it down, it was dirty inside, powder residue, etc. It also came with an obviously used old metal military 30 round clip.
Base price was $700, plus my options I had added which totalled almost $1,000 with 200 rounds of ammo. No manual, No paperwork other than a receipt for all the "parts" to make the rifle.
Am I crazy, or is this normal?
Thanks, Steve W.

PS: Did I menetion the 'dust door' latch that covers the bolt was very well worn from slamming open numerous times?

5RWill · April 9, 2011, 03:47 PM

No paperwork

i agree that sounds fishy. I've bought 3 firearm related items that had to go through a FFL and all required paperwork.

steve1147 · April 9, 2011, 05:01 PM

Oh, I had to do the regular paperwork, you know, all lines except #23 are NO, etc. No idea if it was actually 'turned-in' or checked. Just no manual, instuctions, etc. for the rifle, which I thought odd, I've always gotten boxes, fired casings, manuals, etc. with other weapons.

Txhillbilly · April 9, 2011, 05:16 PM

It sounds like your guy is just assembling guns at his shop out of parts.If you would have bought a NEW RRA rifle,it would have come in a RRA Hardcase with all the factory paperwork.
Who knows what type of gun you really have,I'd say it probably isn't a Rock River.Just a Rock River lower that they assembled,and topped it off with whatever type/brands of upper they had around or assembled.

I hope you don't have any trouble with it,I'd bet that it isn't a true RRA gun,and you won't have any type of factory warranty if something goes wrong.

ndking1126 · April 9, 2011, 05:21 PM

I'm sure RRA would love to know of this "satelite office" kind enough to be buliding rifles for them!!

Never bought a new gun that didn't have box, papers, etc.

KChen986 · April 9, 2011, 05:43 PM

FWIW, my RRA LAR8 came 'new' test-fired from the factory. Brass markings on the bolt face and very light residue.

goodspeed(TPF) · April 9, 2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

from a local dealer

Who is the local dealer?

mc223 · April 9, 2011, 05:55 PM

Sounds like they got ya. I bet somebody got a new Rock River, just wasn't you.

steve1147 · April 9, 2011, 07:10 PM

And I already sent an email to RRA explaining what transpired, just to get their take on it.

Quentin2 · April 9, 2011, 08:31 PM

Yeah, this is just a "custom build" using a RRA lower, the rest could be anything. I'd go back and try to get the rest of the story. Definitely ask if there's a warranty and who stands behind it.

As far as a manual, you can download a PDF from almost any reputable AR website and maybe even get a printed one sent from RRA.

The next step is figure out what your options ended up costing. $700 normally buys a very basic AR unless you hit a great sale. Then figure what the ammo would cost and tax. After subtracting that all out you'll know what the upgrades cost and whether you got reamed. Unfortunately it's not looking real good right now.

You could give more of the specs here and maybe get an idea what the rifle's really worth.

jackblack73 · April 10, 2011, 01:43 AM

So is it not even in 5.56?

steve1147 · April 10, 2011, 08:52 AM

Lower is RRA LAR-15, 5.56, barrell is stamped BRO 5.56 1x8 SS Poly 5. Trigger movement really sucks though, no slow steady sqeeze possible, it's very jerky. I'll re-clean and oil it to see if that helps.

jackblack73 · April 10, 2011, 01:32 PM

Oh ok. I was wondering since you said it was in .223 Remington in your first post.

Nitesites · April 10, 2011, 01:41 PM

A brand new rifle assembled at a LGS? Huh? Sounds to me like your "new" rifle is more like a "new to you" firearm. BUT, get the facts first from the horse's mouth rather than our opinion. Ask the dealer in plain English. Also, asking RRA was a step in the right direction. What about your reciept?

carprivershooter · April 10, 2011, 09:32 PM

I picked up a Rock River Arm 223/5.53 today. It came with a hard case, a thirty round mag, and the Army, Air Force, Marine Corp Manual. Showed signs of a being test fired. My lgs said he would build one for me using RRA parts. He sells several brands of ARs, RRA is just one brand

the rifleer · April 10, 2011, 10:08 PM

Im interested in hearing what the reply from RRA is.

johnbt · April 11, 2011, 09:22 AM

"barrell is stamped BRO 5.56 1x8 SS Poly 5"

Black Rain Ordnance?

http://blackrainordnance.com/BRO/Barrels

steve1147 · April 11, 2011, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Black Rain Ordnance?

Don't know, would a pic help? He did tell me it was stainless steel.

bassfishindoc · April 11, 2011, 07:14 PM

I'm guessing you have been had. That does not look like a pic of a new firearm. I purchased a new RRA and it came in perfect condition. The pic you posted has numerous scuffs and scratches on the barrel, gas block, hand-guard, and screws. Have you fired it yet? Any way you an get your money back? Sounds like you may have a legal case if they sold it to you under false pretenses. You might want to go talk to the owner of the store you bought it from, and let us know the name of the shop so we can avoid them in the future.

TPAW · April 11, 2011, 08:38 PM

Smells fishy to me........

cornbush · April 11, 2011, 10:46 PM

Hate to say it, but like a few others.... I think they pulled one over, RRA may want to get involved to help you out though....this guy is running their name.

sailskidrive · April 12, 2011, 05:48 AM

I'm not sure I agree that he got screwed over. Take the "almost a grand" he spent on the rifle, subtract out $50 for sales tax and about $100 for the ten boxes of ammo, that leaves $850 for the gun. Considering that it has a stainless barrel and at least some Rock River parts I don't think $850 is really that unreasonable. The real question is whether or not what he was buying was misrepresented as an actual Rock River factory gun.

$850 still won't buy an AR here on the western shore side of Maryland. I was in The Armory in Annapolis last week and they didn't have anything under grand. (the place is a rip off)

steve1147 · April 12, 2011, 04:29 PM

OK, got a phone call from "Kate" while ago from Rock River Arms.
Her reply: "We ship the parts out to the dealers, what they do with them after that is up to them". Period.
"We're not responsible". Period.
"Sorry you feel like that, but there's nothing we can do". Period.
When I asked if they monitor or qualify their dealers, I was told "We have thousands of dealers, we can't keep track of them all....".

It may not have been a 'bad deal' overall, but I don't LIKE to think I'm buying new and be sold used. Oh, by the way, "Kate" at Rock River properly let me know it was my responsibility to inspect the rifle at purchase to verify it's 'new' status.
I've NEVER had this even come-up in all my prior firearms purchases, but I'll definately be more careful from now on.

Thanks Everyone, Steve W.

precision_shooter · April 12, 2011, 04:44 PM

Ok, I don't get why you're mad at RRA...

YOU bought a rifle from a shop that said it was an RRA rifle.

How is that RRA's fault?

It's like the Chinese Leupold knockoffs that were showing up a while back. It wasn't Leupold's fault that some other "company" was making Leupold Clones so why should Leupold fix a customer's mistake?

Same thing goes for this instance, It's not RRA's fault that a gunshop is selling rifles with an RRA lower and LPK and calling it an RRA rifle. There is nothing they can do about what some gunshop calls the rifle THEY BUILT. I don't know what you expected RRA to do about it...

Longdayjake · April 12, 2011, 04:45 PM

Yeah, I hate to say this but I think this is entirely your fault. You can blame Rock River all you want, but you had alarm bells going off in your head and you still walked out the door with the rifle. Anyone can buy Rock River parts and put a rifle together and call it a Rock River rifle. Its not like RRA can control in any way what people do. What is it that you expect them to do? Go stand in every gun shop and check every rifle with their lower on it to make sure it was made by them?

I agree that the dealership was being dishonest and that you have a legitimate gripe. However, when it comes to buying a new gun you need to make sure the gun is actually new before you take it home.

BTW that is not a RRA barrel. That I know for sure.

Also, you should shoot it and see how it does for you to see how angry you really are. It might be the most accurate rifle in the world.

April 9, 2011, 03:43 PM	#1
steve1147 Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: Valles Mines, Missouri Posts: 142	Rock River AR-15 Test Fired at Factory? Just bought a 'new' Rock River AR-15 in .223 Remington from a local dealer who claims to have a factory certified guy (armorer?) build them on-site. I was in-store to order my rifle, waited, and it was ready an hour later. I know they couldn't have 'test-fired' it there 'cause the business is in town. Still, when I got it home and tore it down, it was dirty inside, powder residue, etc. It also came with an obviously used old metal military 30 round clip. Base price was $700, plus my options I had added which totalled almost $1,000 with 200 rounds of ammo. No manual, No paperwork other than a receipt for all the "parts" to make the rifle. Am I crazy, or is this normal? Thanks, Steve W. PS: Did I menetion the 'dust door' latch that covers the bolt was very well worn from slamming open numerous times? __________________ Circa 1964: Rocky to Bullwinkle: "But that trick never works!" But Bullwinkle tries it anyway...again and again Last edited by steve1147; April 10, 2011 at 06:48 AM.

April 9, 2011, 05:01 PM	#3
steve1147 Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: Valles Mines, Missouri Posts: 142	Oh, I had to do the regular paperwork, you know, all lines except #23 are NO, etc. No idea if it was actually 'turned-in' or checked. Just no manual, instuctions, etc. for the rifle, which I thought odd, I've always gotten boxes, fired casings, manuals, etc. with other weapons. __________________ Circa 1964: Rocky to Bullwinkle: "But that trick never works!" But Bullwinkle tries it anyway...again and again

April 9, 2011, 05:43 PM	#6
KChen986 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Location: Ninja Mall Posts: 818	FWIW, my RRA LAR8 came 'new' test-fired from the factory. Brass markings on the bolt face and very light residue. __________________ E Pluribus Unum

April 9, 2011, 05:55 PM	#8
mc223 Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2007 Location: n/w Wisconsin Posts: 365	Sounds like they got ya. I bet somebody got a new Rock River, just wasn't you. __________________ . I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you. 0° 5150

April 9, 2011, 07:10 PM	#9
steve1147 Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: Valles Mines, Missouri Posts: 142	And I already sent an email to RRA explaining what transpired, just to get their take on it. __________________ Circa 1964: Rocky to Bullwinkle: "But that trick never works!" But Bullwinkle tries it anyway...again and again Last edited by steve1147; April 10, 2011 at 06:46 AM.

April 9, 2011, 03:47 PM	#2
5RWill Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,654	No paperwork i agree that sounds fishy. I've bought 3 firearm related items that had to go through a FFL and all required paperwork. __________________ Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me."

April 9, 2011, 05:16 PM	#4
Txhillbilly Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2008 Posts: 512	It sounds like your guy is just assembling guns at his shop out of parts.If you would have bought a NEW RRA rifle,it would have come in a RRA Hardcase with all the factory paperwork. Who knows what type of gun you really have,I'd say it probably isn't a Rock River.Just a Rock River lower that they assembled,and topped it off with whatever type/brands of upper they had around or assembled. I hope you don't have any trouble with it,I'd bet that it isn't a true RRA gun,and you won't have any type of factory warranty if something goes wrong.

April 9, 2011, 05:21 PM	#5
ndking1126 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2008 Location: Madison, AL Posts: 1,932	I'm sure RRA would love to know of this "satelite office" kind enough to be buliding rifles for them!! Never bought a new gun that didn't have box, papers, etc.

April 9, 2011, 08:31 PM	#10
Quentin2 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Location: NorthWest USA Posts: 1,996	Yeah, this is just a "custom build" using a RRA lower, the rest could be anything. I'd go back and try to get the rest of the story. Definitely ask if there's a warranty and who stands behind it. As far as a manual, you can download a PDF from almost any reputable AR website and maybe even get a printed one sent from RRA. The next step is figure out what your options ended up costing. $700 normally buys a very basic AR unless you hit a great sale. Then figure what the ammo would cost and tax. After subtracting that all out you'll know what the upgrades cost and whether you got reamed. Unfortunately it's not looking real good right now. You could give more of the specs here and maybe get an idea what the rifle's really worth.

April 10, 2011, 01:43 AM	#11
jackblack73 Member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 68	So is it not even in 5.56?

April 10, 2011, 08:52 AM	#12
steve1147 Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: Valles Mines, Missouri Posts: 142	Lower is RRA LAR-15, 5.56, barrell is stamped BRO 5.56 1x8 SS Poly 5. Trigger movement really sucks though, no slow steady sqeeze possible, it's very jerky. I'll re-clean and oil it to see if that helps. __________________ Circa 1964: Rocky to Bullwinkle: "But that trick never works!" But Bullwinkle tries it anyway...again and again

April 10, 2011, 01:32 PM	#13
jackblack73 Member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 68	Oh ok. I was wondering since you said it was in .223 Remington in your first post.

April 10, 2011, 01:41 PM	#14
Nitesites Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Posts: 600	A brand new rifle assembled at a LGS? Huh? Sounds to me like your "new" rifle is more like a "new to you" firearm. BUT, get the facts first from the horse's mouth rather than our opinion. Ask the dealer in plain English. Also, asking RRA was a step in the right direction. What about your reciept?

April 10, 2011, 09:32 PM	#15
carprivershooter Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2008 Location: Michigan, Upper Pennsula Posts: 396	Rock river I picked up a Rock River Arm 223/5.53 today. It came with a hard case, a thirty round mag, and the Army, Air Force, Marine Corp Manual. Showed signs of a being test fired. My lgs said he would build one for me using RRA parts. He sells several brands of ARs, RRA is just one brand __________________ CarpriverShOOter Finch, I don't like guns. Reese, Me either but if someone has to have guns I'd rather it be me. (Person of Interest). No trees were destroyed in the posting of the this message

April 10, 2011, 10:08 PM	#16
the rifleer Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2008 Location: Sunny California Posts: 1,281	Im interested in hearing what the reply from RRA is. __________________ There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.

April 11, 2011, 09:22 AM	#17
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	"barrell is stamped BRO 5.56 1x8 SS Poly 5" Black Rain Ordnance? http://blackrainordnance.com/BRO/Barrels

April 11, 2011, 07:14 PM	#19
bassfishindoc Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2010 Posts: 166	I'm guessing you have been had. That does not look like a pic of a new firearm. I purchased a new RRA and it came in perfect condition. The pic you posted has numerous scuffs and scratches on the barrel, gas block, hand-guard, and screws. Have you fired it yet? Any way you an get your money back? Sounds like you may have a legal case if they sold it to you under false pretenses. You might want to go talk to the owner of the store you bought it from, and let us know the name of the shop so we can avoid them in the future. __________________ 2LT United States Army NRA Life Member GOA Life Member East Tennessee State University Quillen College of Medicine

April 11, 2011, 08:38 PM	#20
TPAW Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Posts: 2,860	Smells fishy to me........

April 11, 2011, 10:46 PM	#21
cornbush Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: The retarded place below Idaho Posts: 1,408	Hate to say it, but like a few others.... I think they pulled one over, RRA may want to get involved to help you out though....this guy is running their name. __________________ The best shot I ever made was an accident

April 12, 2011, 05:48 AM	#22
sailskidrive Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2008 Posts: 726	Hmmmm I'm not sure I agree that he got screwed over. Take the "almost a grand" he spent on the rifle, subtract out $50 for sales tax and about $100 for the ten boxes of ammo, that leaves $850 for the gun. Considering that it has a stainless barrel and at least some Rock River parts I don't think $850 is really that unreasonable. The real question is whether or not what he was buying was misrepresented as an actual Rock River factory gun. $850 still won't buy an AR here on the western shore side of Maryland. I was in The Armory in Annapolis last week and they didn't have anything under grand. (the place is a rip off)

April 12, 2011, 04:29 PM	#23
steve1147 Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: Valles Mines, Missouri Posts: 142	OK, got a phone call from "Kate" while ago from Rock River Arms. Her reply: "We ship the parts out to the dealers, what they do with them after that is up to them". Period. "We're not responsible". Period. "Sorry you feel like that, but there's nothing we can do". Period. When I asked if they monitor or qualify their dealers, I was told "We have thousands of dealers, we can't keep track of them all....". It may not have been a 'bad deal' overall, but I don't LIKE to think I'm buying new and be sold used. Oh, by the way, "Kate" at Rock River properly let me know it was my responsibility to inspect the rifle at purchase to verify it's 'new' status. I've NEVER had this even come-up in all my prior firearms purchases, but I'll definately be more careful from now on. Thanks Everyone, Steve W. __________________ Circa 1964: Rocky to Bullwinkle: "But that trick never works!" But Bullwinkle tries it anyway...again and again Last edited by steve1147; April 13, 2011 at 05:59 AM.

April 12, 2011, 04:44 PM	#24
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	Ok, I don't get why you're mad at RRA... YOU bought a rifle from a shop that said it was an RRA rifle. How is that RRA's fault? It's like the Chinese Leupold knockoffs that were showing up a while back. It wasn't Leupold's fault that some other "company" was making Leupold Clones so why should Leupold fix a customer's mistake? Same thing goes for this instance, It's not RRA's fault that a gunshop is selling rifles with an RRA lower and LPK and calling it an RRA rifle. There is nothing they can do about what some gunshop calls the rifle THEY BUILT. I don't know what you expected RRA to do about it... __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

April 12, 2011, 04:45 PM	#25
Longdayjake Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2009 Posts: 619	Yeah, I hate to say this but I think this is entirely your fault. You can blame Rock River all you want, but you had alarm bells going off in your head and you still walked out the door with the rifle. Anyone can buy Rock River parts and put a rifle together and call it a Rock River rifle. Its not like RRA can control in any way what people do. What is it that you expect them to do? Go stand in every gun shop and check every rifle with their lower on it to make sure it was made by them? I agree that the dealership was being dishonest and that you have a legitimate gripe. However, when it comes to buying a new gun you need to make sure the gun is actually new before you take it home. BTW that is not a RRA barrel. That I know for sure. Also, you should shoot it and see how it does for you to see how angry you really are. It might be the most accurate rifle in the world. __________________ If you need bullets for reloading give my website a look. www.rmrbullets.com Last edited by Longdayjake; April 12, 2011 at 04:50 PM.