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Old February 2, 2010, 10:22 AM   #1
JH1
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Which for a Truck Gun?

I'm looking for a short barreled semi auto carbine in either 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 to keep in my truck 100% of the time for the occasional coyote or other critters that cross my path. I'm limiting myself to these two calibers because of cheap blasting ammo, because its only other purpose is going to be punching paper and shooting cans at the range. I have owned two mini 14's in the past and wasnt really satisfied with either for how much they cost, so I'm trying to keep the cost down, and since its a truck gun trying to stay with barrel lengths under 20". I've just about narrowed my choices down to two guns. The first is a saiga carbine in one of these two calibers, which can be had for just under $400 after shipping and transfer fees. The other is an sks paratrooper with the short barrel. I've found one for sale locally for $300 obo, just comes with the basics (wood stock, bayonet, etc).

My question is, how do these two stack up? Pros for the saiga is that its new production, has AK action, easily upgradable. Pros for the sks are price, price, and price. I dont have enough experience with either to know which is more accurate, if somebody could help me out there. I'm not expecting a benchrest gun, but would like to be able to hit a paper plate at 100yds.

Anybody have opinions on this? Other reccomendations besides these two guns?
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Old February 2, 2010, 10:53 AM   #2
rodwhaincamo
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I don't know much about the Saiga, but I'd think the Rugers could hold their own against them where accuracy and reliability are concerned. Were it me, and only using the truck gun to flatten little critters and killing paper I'd chose either the 5.56 or 5.45mm.
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Old February 2, 2010, 10:59 AM   #3
azredhawk44
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I'd personally go with the Saiga over a used, mil-surp combloc leftover.

Saigas are solid rifles and have real accuracy potential (within reason). You won't get a 1/2 MOA tackdriver out of one, but with good ammo and a good shooter you might get 1.5 MOA.

And... given your intentions, I'd suggest the .223 Saiga over a 5.45 or 7.62x39.

Remember that annoying guy in the White House? I wouldn't put it past him, even if voted out in 2012, to change import/export restrictions on "military" ammunition and make that x39 stuff tricky to get.

Just my opinion.
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Old February 2, 2010, 12:04 PM   #4
pvt.Long
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the sagia in ay configuration is a realy good truck gun i carry my S&W ar15 in 5.56 and couldent ask for anything better
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Old February 2, 2010, 12:51 PM   #5
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I bought a Keltec SU-16A. A 1/4" hitch pin allows the piece to be folded in half.
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Old February 2, 2010, 01:02 PM   #6
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The other is an sks paratrooper with the short barrel. I've found one for sale locally for $300 obo, just comes with the basics (wood stock, bayonet, etc).
You can't go wrong with an SKS Para. I like the safety better than the AK (Saiga). Put a Tech Sights rear aperture on it, load up some stripper clips and you're good to go.

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Old February 2, 2010, 02:32 PM   #7
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Thanks for all the replies so far.

DMK,

What kind of accuracy do you get with the paratrooper before and after peep sight?
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Old February 2, 2010, 03:34 PM   #8
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I have a converted Saiga...have used it some for your kind of application. I've found that with little practice (maybe 250-300 rounds) I can pretty well hit what I want offhand out to at least a hundred yards. That's all I really expect from that rifle. It seems well made and functions flawlessly so far. I like the idea of a relatively inexpensive rifle that you don't mind keeping in a truck and I think it fits the bill quite nicely.
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Old February 2, 2010, 03:35 PM   #9
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I can't say. I never shot it before the tech-sight and I only shoot it off hand. My off hand groups at 100y are not that great, so it wouldn't be fair to the rifle to comment. Just guessing, I figure it's a 2-4MOA rifle depending on ammo quality. The Siaga might be slightly more accurate with top shelf ammo, but with Wolf or similar quality ammo, it won't do any better than an SKS.

It does make it much easier to shoot though (I have other SKS with the original sights). I have bad eyesight and I have a real rough time lining up partridge sights and a long range target. With aperture sights, it is much easier.

A red dot would be better of course. You could put a Ultimak mount and Aimpoint on the Saiga. It's a pricy setup, but a rugged sight that you can just leave powered on all the time. With a red dot, you just look at the target with both eyes open and the red "pipper" is there.
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Old February 2, 2010, 03:56 PM   #10
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Being more of a hunting kinda guy, I'd think carefully about something like an H&R Handi-Rifle, with some kind of non-rusting finish and a 3-9x Scope. Caliber might be .243, 7mm-08, or .308.

In retrospect, I'd probably get a Rem Model 7 stainless synthetic in one of the above calibers. It's a tough little gun and it has four-shot capability. The scope is the ticket for animals along the road, which may be several hundred yards away, or in dimly-lit woods. One shot-one kill...hopefully.
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Old February 2, 2010, 04:08 PM   #11
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Picher,

I dont disagree with you at all, the guns you mentioned would be great for this, except, I would really like a semi auto for burning up a lot of cheap ammo at the range. I've got several boltguns now and they are still my favorite to shoot, but really just looking for an inexpensive auto.

Thanks
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Old February 2, 2010, 05:50 PM   #12
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If you really want to shoot cheap ammo, maybe something in 9mm is a better deal...

It's a lot cheaper to shoot. And, 9mm +P+ is more than enough for oaties and varmint critters out to 100 or 150 yards.



-tINY

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Old February 2, 2010, 06:46 PM   #13
TriumphGuy
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Quote:
What kind of accuracy do you get with the paratrooper before and after peep sight?
Can't say how it works on an SKS, but I've got a set on a Marlin 60 and a Ruger .44 carbine. In both cases, I can get on target much faster, but it's harder to get a precise point of aim as the aperture is a little bit large for detail work. I can spin all 5 2"x2" steel plates on my reset target at 50 yards in under 10 seconds with the Marlin though.
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Old February 2, 2010, 08:26 PM   #14
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I can get on target much faster, but it's harder to get a precise point of aim as the aperture is a little bit large for detail work.
With the SKS TS100 aperture (the one that is NOT elevation adjustable), you can use regular AR15 apertures in it.

I swapped in an XS Sight systems "same plane" aperture in mine, but you could also use one of the finer "match" sights in it.
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Old February 2, 2010, 08:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
short barreled semi auto carbine in either 7.62x39 or 5.45x39
SAR-2 AK74, about as cheap as centerfire ammo gets and it'll do just about anything .223 will. I have to recommend an optic or at least better sights though, AK/SKS sights SUCK.
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Old February 2, 2010, 09:10 PM   #16
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For what it's worth, I've shot AK's, SKS's, and have AR's in both 7.62 &5/45x39. As for popping coyotes and smaller critters with either AK or SKS, you're going to need to be fairly close or catch them on a really unlucky day. My AR's in either caliber have the accuracy to make 200+ yard hits but bullet performance is wanting. If you really want to do critter control, get a cheap 223 like the H&R and put a $75 scope on it. If you want to burn ammo , anything will work.
There are some specialty ammo types using V-max bullets which improve the 7.62 and I've heard there will also be the same in 5.45 soon but neither is going to make an SKS a coyote rifle past it's normal distance.
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Old February 2, 2010, 10:12 PM   #17
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Green stock SKS

That is nice, I would not mind having one of those for myself.
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Old February 3, 2010, 02:33 PM   #18
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I also considered a pistol caliber carbine and the m1 carbine. With the pistol caliber guns, range is very limited. And with the m1 carbine, reasonably priced ammo can be hard to find. Not to mention both of these are pretty high priced (excluding the hi point carbine).
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Old February 3, 2010, 04:08 PM   #19
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Since you still seem to still be looking I normally recommend the Remington 740/7400 series rifle in .30-06 for the truck gun application. The weapon is inexpensive, powerful, light, accurate and has universally available ammo in many different loading types. You can find one at most pawn shops and on line for under (sometimes well under) $300. The range and power is unmatched by any carbine on the market. You can pickup the surplus stuff on line and US surplus nearly as cheap as cheap Russian steel cased ammo.

The only major drawbacks are the low capacity and no capability to send lots of lead in a hurry (the advantages of a modern carbine). But for your purposes you mention it should be fully capable.
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Old February 3, 2010, 04:36 PM   #20
JH1
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Excellent idea and it is something I have thought about. I wouldnt mind finding one of the remington autos in 243. A browning bar in 243 would be nice too but a little pricey.
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Old February 3, 2010, 10:19 PM   #21
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Truck Gun

Look into the 6.8 SPC, its the latest AR/M4 cartridge. Looking at carts 500yards it still has 1500 lbs engery from a 16" barrel.
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Old February 3, 2010, 10:51 PM   #22
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I would not spend the money on a AR-15 as a truck gun. id just get me a M44 or a sks
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Old February 4, 2010, 12:12 PM   #23
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SKS.
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Old February 5, 2010, 04:09 AM   #24
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DMK is that the original wood stock on your gun? If it is what did you paint it with? It looks good. I like it.

I have both a paratrooper and a regular carbine with a 20" barrel. Of the two I like shooting the longer gun better. I haven't ever shot them for groups but I can hit 13oz coffee can sized targets at a hundred yards with a field rest most every shot. I don't think hitting a coyote at that range or a little further away would be a problem.
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Old February 5, 2010, 07:22 AM   #25
DMK
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DMK is that the original wood stock on your gun? If it is what did you paint it with? It looks good. I like it.
Thanks.

I replaced the original wood stock with a Chinese fiberglass "Jungle Stock" that I painted with Alumahyde II. It also has a Tech Sights rear aperture. I have the original wood and sight stored so I can put it back to original condition if I ever want to.

The fiberglass stocks used to be all over the place for under $15, but now you need to really search to find one. I wish I would have bought more back in the day when they were cheap (how many times do we say that).
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