BB steel or BBB steel shot for self defense?

Super-Dave · March 2, 2009, 06:52 PM

Do you think either BB steel or BBB steel shot might be acceptable for self defense under 10 yards, or are you better of using the shotgun as a club?

Also I was wondering if this might be an acceptable choice for hunting a cupacabre. I have heard they are very fast and I was thinking a larger pellet count than #4 buckshot might be needed in order to place a good hit.

rantingredneck · March 2, 2009, 07:14 PM

Must we really do this again?

Super-Dave · March 2, 2009, 07:37 PM

Actually yes,

I can get some very good prices on BB or BBB.
I was wondering if they might be acceptable for home defense?

And that also includes shooting any rabid foaming at the mouth pitbulls which roam my neighborhood. No reason to waste expensive buckshot if you can get the job done with BB or BBB.

rantingredneck · March 2, 2009, 07:38 PM

Search function......

Super-Dave · March 2, 2009, 07:40 PM

I was also wondering if anyone has shot anything other than turkeys with BB or BBB with success.

Super-Dave · March 2, 2009, 08:02 PM

Based on scouring the internet looking for ballistic results of BB steel shot the best I could come up with is an estimate of 9.5" penetration in gel.

Now if 9.5 penetration in gel translates to 9.5 penetration in flesh, BB shot might be acceptable. I live in Florida where it is rarely cold and rarely do people wear heavy clothing. So to me it seems that 9.5" penetration on bare gel might be okay here in Florida.

Now I know everyone is going to say "Use Buckshot" well thats great, but I am hoping to use an acceptable shot that has the most pellets to increase hits, perferably to vitals. 27 pellets of #4 buck is nice, but 75-90 pellets might be even better.

What say you?

hogdogs · March 2, 2009, 08:39 PM

Depth of penetration in ballistic gelatin is irrelevant to actual flesh penetration. I think they say 12 or 16 inch in gelatin is suggestive of a decent HD/SD load.
A .22lr goes way on in the gelatin in a straight line but has dismal penetration on a body if it so much as brushes a bone or hits dense muscle like pectoral muscle etc... and if shooting for the head don't even expect an exit.
I would stick with lead buck shot. to save money... learn to reload home cast shot from tire weights...
Brent

gundoc1 · March 2, 2009, 09:24 PM

Hello having hunted the goat sucker I can attest that they are very fast and immune to anything but the heaviest dose of shot I would suggest a 3-1/2 in ten ga dose of 00 buck shot as these creatures are very aggressive when set upon in the middle of feeding time also they are vampires of a sort so you must behead them after shooting them so they do not resurrect and come after you they do hold a grudge for a long time and are very sneaky good hunting and cheers

Dave McC · March 2, 2009, 09:25 PM

I've had to shoot enough geese twice with steel BBB loads to believe there's way better choices for defense, Dave.

BBB steel is inferior to old lead 2s, and very inferior to Hevishot 2s, my Goose load of choice these days.

I do not know your use environment, but for defense 00 is hardly ever a bad choice.

nutty ned · March 2, 2009, 10:12 PM

Super-Dave:
Short answer----yes, at the range you said.
Long answer--- I killed a deer at that range with #2 steel and IMO, at that range, any shotgun load will work from 7.5 lead or #2 steel and larger.
My answer may incite a riot, but, shoot something at 10 yds and see.

Super-Dave · March 3, 2009, 09:18 AM

Nutty-Ned

The words you speak is blasphemy around here.

They are going to come down harder on you than if you said

"Shotguns are for girls and real men use rifles."

Super-Dave · March 3, 2009, 03:22 PM

Any one think steel BB shot might be okay on coyotes?

dakotashooter2 · March 3, 2009, 03:52 PM

Frankly... At ten yards and under it isn't gonna make a whole lot of difference what the pellet composition is, it's gonna do some serious damage. I've made hamburger out of more than one goose that got a bit to close. The problem with steel is that it sheds it's energy pretty fast, But don't underestimate it. I personally wouldn't want to take a hit from steel BBs at 40 yards.

Super-Dave · March 3, 2009, 04:04 PM

I was just trying to get an idea of what it could do at 10 yards.

I was hopeing that steel BB shot to the face of Joe thug at less than 10 yards would be sufficient to either blind him or incapacitate him.

91slicktop · March 3, 2009, 07:19 PM

I have #1 buckshot for HD

91slicktop · March 3, 2009, 07:20 PM

if you shoot someone in the face from 10 yards with about anything...im pretty sure would "incapacitate" them

nate45 · March 3, 2009, 07:27 PM

No, they aren't. Lead #1 Buck is. My second choice would be 00 Buck. I would never use bird shot for defense, unless by some poor preparation on my part that was all I had.

alloy · March 4, 2009, 06:39 AM

Quote:

I was hopeing that steel BB shot to the face of Joe thug at less than 10 yards would be sufficient to either blind him or incapacitate him.

No, steel BB shot to the face of Joe thug will not blind him. It will bounce off like ping pong balls.

greyeyezz · March 5, 2009, 09:07 AM

Forget steel. BB leads would be quite nasty within 30 feet. I use these on varmints on the farm and they are quite effective.

Super-Dave · March 5, 2009, 01:23 PM

I cannot find anyone online that sells lead BB or lead BBB.

If you know of somewhere let me know. I would gladly buy them.

hogdogs · March 5, 2009, 01:53 PM

Pellet count is no substitute to poor payload placement down range in a defensive situation. 10 yards and under, the spread is of such small percentage over original diameter that "A MISS IS STILL A MISS". If all I could find was #4 buck for my 20 I would still use that but I can get #3 locally and would highly prefer #2 or larger. At the short range of HD I am still sure that it will be one ragged entry wound and likely the wad would also be found in the BG's torso...
If you notice in hunting turkeys, the typical choke is an extra full or even a XX to keep the shot pattern tight enuff to drop the bird... They ain't made of steel either.
Brent

Bartholomew Roberts · March 5, 2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

I am hoping to use an acceptable shot that has the most pellets to increase hits, perferably to vitals. 27 pellets of #4 buck is nice, but 75-90 pellets might be even better.

It seems to me that if you are at typical self-defense distances, the 75-90 pellets will still hit in the same small circle that the 27 pellets of #4 will hit in. To use an analogy, if I shoot something 4 times in the same 3" circle with a 9mm, then will shooting it 20 times in the same 3" circle with the 9mm really increase the damage that much?

At the same time, the way you get the extra pellets is by reducing mass (and reducing it even further by using steel instead of lead). This means that they will lose velocity due to drag faster than the heavier #4 shot (so their velocity at the target will be less) and they will penetrate less when they get to the target. If you aren't at typical self-defense distances, that BB shot is going to lose energy much faster than #4s.

Quote:

if you shoot someone in the face from 10 yards with about anything...im pretty sure would "incapacitate" them

You'd think that; but John Farnam recounted a case where the attacker got shot in the face with a load of #6 birdshot and blinded in one eye. He then killed the victim and drove 100 miles to a hospital.

Maromero · March 5, 2009, 02:23 PM

[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] is a cupacabre?

Did you intend to write chupacabra? If so, I believe you are watching way too much History Channel my friend.

colostomyclown · March 5, 2009, 04:09 PM

Ask yourself

would it stop YOU from 10 yds away? multiple large ball bearing like-projectiles travelling at least 1300 FPS.

uh, yeah. it'll work and LOL @ whoever said BB shot will bounce off. hahahahahahahahah jumpin tacticommando jesus some of the things people will believe

hogdogs · March 5, 2009, 04:28 PM

Actually, I think the bounce off comment was completely sarcastic in intent..
Now, lemme ask you, would a 2X4 oak board across yer mug stop you? Well yes it would but is it the ideal home defense weapon... NOPE IT AIN'T!
I do not feel under gunned with #3 buck in my 500 20 but I would sure like #2 or bigger... I do have a mav 88 with 28 inch barrel and both 00 buck and rifled slugs if I need more...
It is all about having more than the intruder...
Far too many ducks have done a "touch and go" with steel shot in their craw to consider it a viable HD choice...
Now if the intruder had an electro-magnet vest the steel may be the better choice... As a kid I seen the wee little cartoon character win with the over size horse shoe magnet to argue the physics of magnatism...
Too bad the "ACME Co." didn't simply sell shotguns... The 'yote woulda' had him a roadrunner in less than 30 years trying...
Brent

March 2, 2009, 07:40 PM	#5
Super-Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 795	I was also wondering if anyone has shot anything other than turkeys with BB or BBB with success. __________________ If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell

March 2, 2009, 09:24 PM	#8
gundoc1 Junior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Posts: 8	Chupacabra hunting Hello having hunted the goat sucker I can attest that they are very fast and immune to anything but the heaviest dose of shot I would suggest a 3-1/2 in ten ga dose of 00 buck shot as these creatures are very aggressive when set upon in the middle of feeding time also they are vampires of a sort so you must behead them after shooting them so they do not resurrect and come after you they do hold a grudge for a long time and are very sneaky good hunting and cheers

March 3, 2009, 09:18 AM	#11
Super-Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 795	Nutty-Ned The words you speak is blasphemy around here. They are going to come down harder on you than if you said "Shotguns are for girls and real men use rifles." __________________ If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell

March 3, 2009, 03:22 PM	#12
Super-Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 795	Any one think steel BB shot might be okay on coyotes? __________________ If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell

March 3, 2009, 04:04 PM	#14
Super-Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 795	I was just trying to get an idea of what it could do at 10 yards. I was hopeing that steel BB shot to the face of Joe thug at less than 10 yards would be sufficient to either blind him or incapacitate him. __________________ If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell

March 2, 2009, 06:52 PM	#1
Super-Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 795	BB steel or BBB steel shot for self defense? Do you think either BB steel or BBB steel shot might be acceptable for self defense under 10 yards, or are you better of using the shotgun as a club? Also I was wondering if this might be an acceptable choice for hunting a cupacabre. I have heard they are very fast and I was thinking a larger pellet count than #4 buckshot might be needed in order to place a good hit. __________________ If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell

March 2, 2009, 07:14 PM	#2
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	Must we really do this again? __________________ NRA Member NC Hunter's Education Instructor PCCA Member (What's PCCA you ask? <- Check the link)

March 2, 2009, 07:37 PM	#3
Super-Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 795	Actually yes, I can get some very good prices on BB or BBB. I was wondering if they might be acceptable for home defense? And that also includes shooting any rabid foaming at the mouth pitbulls which roam my neighborhood. No reason to waste expensive buckshot if you can get the job done with BB or BBB. __________________ If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell

March 2, 2009, 07:38 PM	#4
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	Search function...... __________________ NRA Member NC Hunter's Education Instructor PCCA Member (What's PCCA you ask? <- Check the link)

March 2, 2009, 08:02 PM	#6
Super-Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 795	Based on scouring the internet looking for ballistic results of BB steel shot the best I could come up with is an estimate of 9.5" penetration in gel. Now if 9.5 penetration in gel translates to 9.5 penetration in flesh, BB shot might be acceptable. I live in Florida where it is rarely cold and rarely do people wear heavy clothing. So to me it seems that 9.5" penetration on bare gel might be okay here in Florida. Now I know everyone is going to say "Use Buckshot" well thats great, but I am hoping to use an acceptable shot that has the most pellets to increase hits, perferably to vitals. 27 pellets of #4 buck is nice, but 75-90 pellets might be even better. What say you? __________________ If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell Last edited by Super-Dave; March 2, 2009 at 08:07 PM.

March 2, 2009, 08:39 PM	#7
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Depth of penetration in ballistic gelatin is irrelevant to actual flesh penetration. I think they say 12 or 16 inch in gelatin is suggestive of a decent HD/SD load. A .22lr goes way on in the gelatin in a straight line but has dismal penetration on a body if it so much as brushes a bone or hits dense muscle like pectoral muscle etc... and if shooting for the head don't even expect an exit. I would stick with lead buck shot. to save money... learn to reload home cast shot from tire weights... Brent

March 2, 2009, 09:25 PM	#9
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	I've had to shoot enough geese twice with steel BBB loads to believe there's way better choices for defense, Dave. BBB steel is inferior to old lead 2s, and very inferior to Hevishot 2s, my Goose load of choice these days. I do not know your use environment, but for defense 00 is hardly ever a bad choice.

March 2, 2009, 10:12 PM	#10
nutty ned Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Posts: 765	Super-Dave: Short answer----yes, at the range you said. Long answer--- I killed a deer at that range with #2 steel and IMO, at that range, any shotgun load will work from 7.5 lead or #2 steel and larger. My answer may incite a riot, but, shoot something at 10 yds and see.

March 3, 2009, 03:52 PM	#13
dakotashooter2 Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2005 Posts: 498	Frankly... At ten yards and under it isn't gonna make a whole lot of difference what the pellet composition is, it's gonna do some serious damage. I've made hamburger out of more than one goose that got a bit to close. The problem with steel is that it sheds it's energy pretty fast, But don't underestimate it. I personally wouldn't want to take a hit from steel BBs at 40 yards.

March 3, 2009, 07:19 PM	#15
91slicktop Member Join Date: February 26, 2009 Posts: 43	I have #1 buckshot for HD __________________ Owner of: -S&W M&P15 (Sold) - GSG-5 carbine -Mossberg 500 Tactical - XDM .40 -Remington 700 .308 (Sold)

March 3, 2009, 07:20 PM	#16
91slicktop Member Join Date: February 26, 2009 Posts: 43	if you shoot someone in the face from 10 yards with about anything...im pretty sure would "incapacitate" them __________________ Owner of: -S&W M&P15 (Sold) - GSG-5 carbine -Mossberg 500 Tactical - XDM .40 -Remington 700 .308 (Sold)

March 3, 2009, 07:27 PM	#17
nate45 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,746	No, they aren't. Lead #1 Buck is. My second choice would be 00 Buck. I would never use bird shot for defense, unless by some poor preparation on my part that was all I had. __________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (>_<)

March 5, 2009, 09:07 AM	#19
greyeyezz Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2001 Location: N.E. OH Posts: 385	Forget steel. BB leads would be quite nasty within 30 feet. I use these on varmints on the farm and they are quite effective.

March 5, 2009, 01:23 PM	#20
Super-Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 795	I cannot find anyone online that sells lead BB or lead BBB. If you know of somewhere let me know. I would gladly buy them. __________________ If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell

March 5, 2009, 01:53 PM	#21
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Pellet count is no substitute to poor payload placement down range in a defensive situation. 10 yards and under, the spread is of such small percentage over original diameter that "A MISS IS STILL A MISS". If all I could find was #4 buck for my 20 I would still use that but I can get #3 locally and would highly prefer #2 or larger. At the short range of HD I am still sure that it will be one ragged entry wound and likely the wad would also be found in the BG's torso... If you notice in hunting turkeys, the typical choke is an extra full or even a XX to keep the shot pattern tight enuff to drop the bird... They ain't made of steel either. Brent

March 5, 2009, 02:23 PM	#23
Maromero Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Location: Outside the continental U Posts: 752	[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] is a cupacabre? Did you intend to write chupacabra? If so, I believe you are watching way too much History Channel my friend.

March 5, 2009, 04:09 PM	#24
colostomyclown Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2009 Posts: 613	Ask yourself would it stop YOU from 10 yds away? multiple large ball bearing like-projectiles travelling at least 1300 FPS. uh, yeah. it'll work and LOL @ whoever said BB shot will bounce off. hahahahahahahahah jumpin tacticommando jesus some of the things people will believe

March 5, 2009, 04:28 PM	#25
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Actually, I think the bounce off comment was completely sarcastic in intent.. Now, lemme ask you, would a 2X4 oak board across yer mug stop you? Well yes it would but is it the ideal home defense weapon... NOPE IT AIN'T! I do not feel under gunned with #3 buck in my 500 20 but I would sure like #2 or bigger... I do have a mav 88 with 28 inch barrel and both 00 buck and rifled slugs if I need more... It is all about having more than the intruder... Far too many ducks have done a "touch and go" with steel shot in their craw to consider it a viable HD choice... Now if the intruder had an electro-magnet vest the steel may be the better choice... As a kid I seen the wee little cartoon character win with the over size horse shoe magnet to argue the physics of magnatism... Too bad the "ACME Co." didn't simply sell shotguns... The 'yote woulda' had him a roadrunner in less than 30 years trying... Brent

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