Just so I don't go not knowing..

Tatsumi67 · January 17, 2009, 10:51 PM

Im assuming, as its common sense, that if you are in a room when "something goes down", and there is a LEO in that room, you are to NOT draw as it defaults to the LEO to draw and interdict?

I don't have my CCW yet (to young) but is that how it works?

btolliverjr · January 17, 2009, 10:56 PM

wouldn't be a good idea. if you draw your weapon in a situation with a LEO in the room, guess who just became another target for the LEO

He doesn't know that you are on his side.

Tatsumi67 · January 17, 2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:

wouldn't be a good idea. if you draw your weapon in a situation with a LEO in the room, guess who just became another target for the LEO He doesn't know that you are on his side.

Maybe I wasnt clear enough: what I mean is, are you to NOT DRAW when a LEO is in the room, becuase he/she will be the one who should draw?

Teuthis · January 17, 2009, 11:25 PM

If something "goes down" in a room, there is no necessity for you to do anything anyway. Perhaps the best thing you can do is quietly and acutely observe. Our CCW permits are for self defense, not saving the world. The best thing you could do is nothing, but if you are threatened, get to a defensive position where, if necessary, you could protect yourself and others. The worst thing might be to engage someone in a firefight in order to stop a crime where bystanders might be hurt or killed for no good reason.

Ask yourself.. are you a gunfighter with training and experience in combat and up close firefights? Are you ready to die in a close confrontation if it is not absolutely necessary?

Do you want to end up in endless trouble for accidently shooting bystanders by starting a firefight when it might not have happened otherwise? I would use great caution and reserve before taking action in some situation. Life and death.

Tatsumi67 · January 17, 2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

wouldn't be a good idea. if you draw your weapon in a situation with a LEO in the room, guess who just became another target for the LEO He doesn't know that you are on his side.

Thats the answer I expected and wanted to hear, thanks.

Tatsumi67 · January 17, 2009, 11:28 PM

End Thread

btolliverjr · January 17, 2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

If something "goes down" in a room, there is no necessity for you to do anything anyway. Perhaps the best thing you can do is quietly and acutely observe. Our CCW permits are for self defense, not saving the world.

Actually your permit is to protect both yourself AND others. If you are in McDonalds and someone comes in and opens fire on someone else, are you just going to sit there with your gun on your side and do nothing while he kills innocent people? or are you going to neutralize the threat and keep him from killing innocent people? Would you wait to open fire until he attacked specifically you?

Quote:

Maybe I wasnt clear enough: what I mean is, are you to NOT DRAW when a LEO is in the room, becuase he/she will be the one who should draw?

Again, if you find out a LEO is in the room, you should not draw your weapon! If you have already drawn it and then find out of the LEO, you should immediately put down and step away from your weapon and make it clear that you are not there to do harm. again, he doesn't know whose side you are on.

**Mal H** · January 17, 2009, 11:38 PM

I've got to admit I'm confused by your last few posts, Tatsumi67. First you say the quoted text showed that you hadn't been clear in your question, then the same quote is what you were looking for. ???

btolliverjr · January 17, 2009, 11:46 PM

+1! I'm glad I wasn't the only one that was confused by that.

Kreyzhorse · January 19, 2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

wouldn't be a good idea. if you draw your weapon in a situation with a LEO in the room, guess who just became another target for the LEO He doesn't know that you are on his side.

+1 to that.

blume357 · January 19, 2009, 04:17 PM

now a target... that's why there are very strict rules of why and when you should.

Just keep in mind if you ever do draw it... it is a bad day. how bad depends on a lot of things, many of them unknown.

David Armstrong · January 19, 2009, 07:47 PM

+1 to what Teuthis said. Just because something "goes down" doesn't mean you have to get involved with it, LE presence or not. It is not a good idea to draw your weapon unless you or a loved one is in imminent danger.

btolliverjr · January 19, 2009, 08:13 PM

David, Please read post #7. Are you saying that if someone elses mother or grandmother or daughter was in imminent danger and you were able to stop the threat that you wouldn't?

kalstrand · January 20, 2009, 03:23 PM

In Oklahoma the law specifically mentions you can use the firearm to defend yourself, a family member, or an employee. It doesn't say you can defend anyone else. I guess if you find yourself in a situation its up to you to decide if you will defend someone else.

Bitmap · January 20, 2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:
If something "goes down" in a room, there is no necessity for you to do anything anyway. Perhaps the best thing you can do is quietly and acutely observe. Our CCW permits are for self defense, not saving the world.

Quote:

Actually your permit is to protect both yourself AND others. If you are in McDonalds and someone comes in and opens fire on someone else, are you just going to sit there with your gun on your side and do nothing while he kills innocent people? or are you going to neutralize the threat and keep him from killing innocent people? Would you wait to open fire until he attacked specifically you?

Actually, that is a wise approach. You don't have an obligation to risk your own safety to try and protect others. However, if you do try and you make a mistake you will get all the blame and all the legal problems and legal bills. You may also get yourself killed or crippled.

B.N.Real · January 20, 2009, 06:40 PM

If I am in the room and "something goes down" and I am armed.

I WILL draw my weapon and keep it down,out of sight.

I am not going to gamble on ANYBODY to keep me safe if there is someone in a room that is endangering me or anyone else in the room.

You can have a drawn weapon and not be open about it.

Aim it at the floor and simply be quiet.

If the LEO needs help,you are ready to help.

If not,you just put your handgun away.

btolliverjr · January 20, 2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Actually, that is a wise approach. You don't have an obligation to risk your own safety to try and protect others. However, if you do try and you make a mistake you will get all the blame and all the legal problems and legal bills. You may also get yourself killed or crippled.

Sorry, but if I was in a room and a perp came in and pulled a gun and was going to kill someone else, even if I had never met that person before, I would take action. I couldn't just sit back and watch that person be killed just becuase they weren't "MY" loved one. The are definately someone elses!

csmsss · January 20, 2009, 07:13 PM

The idea of blithely sitting there doing nothing while a bad guy kills other people is repellent to me. That innocent person about to be killed is someone's wife, mother, brother, father, whatever. I couldn't live with myself if I knew that I had the opportunity to stop the killing and did absolutely nothing to do so.

chris in va · January 20, 2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Are you saying that if someone elses mother or grandmother or daughter was in imminent danger and you were able to stop the threat that you wouldn't?

There are definitely people out there that wouldn't take action to prevent/lessen a crime. Believe it.

Much of it stems from litigation fear and regulations. Sad.

btolliverjr · January 20, 2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

The idea of blithely sitting there doing nothing while a bad guy kills other people is repellent to me. That innocent person about to be killed is someone's wife, mother, brother, father, whatever. I couldn't live with myself if I knew that I had the opportunity to stop the killing and did absolutely nothing to do so.

Glad to hear there is at least one other person out there that would protect my family or friends or just innocent people (ie. someones loved ones)
Thanks csmsss

csmsss · January 20, 2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Glad to hear there is at least one other person out there that would protect my family or friends or just innocent people (ie. someones loved ones)
Thanks csmsss

Hey, no problem. It's just how I'm made. I've got a daughter, and as much as I desperately want to be around for her as she grows up, there's a big part of me that wants her to know that her daddy would do the right thing in a time of emergency, and not just the convenient/safe thing.

scorpion_tyr · January 20, 2009, 11:08 PM

This situation would come with so many variables that it's impossible to list them. My best answer is to just do what seems right at the time. If the BG is right next to me with the LEO across the room I'm probably going to hit the floor. If the LEO is in front or beside me I'm probably going to draw and try to position myself where I can take aim at the BG without even looking like I'm aiming at the LEO. Then I'd just keep my mouth shut.

Once again... it's all about what seems right at the time. I wouldn't take a yes or no answer and run with it in every similar scenario.

David Armstrong · January 21, 2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

David, Please read post #7. Are you saying that if someone elses mother or grandmother or daughter was in imminent danger and you were able to stop the threat that you wouldn't?

Depends on lots of variables. The OP was "something going down." That covers a lot of territory. As for Mom and Ganny and daughter, WHAT is going down? Who am I with? What is the danger to me and my family? Just because you can do something doesn't make it a good idea.

Jim March · January 21, 2009, 04:30 PM

What you DO is, you take cover from the bad guy's fire yet try and keep an eye on the cop. Let him/her take first crack at the problem. Don't let them know you're armed. But damned well get ready to step in if the cop is losing or runs dry because it's nearly certain that a cop-killer will try and eliminate witnesses and you WILL be the next target.

As a bonus, if you can keep a wounded or ammo-less cop from getting "finished off", so much the better.

If you have to let the cop know he/she has a potential ally, calmly but clearly say "I'm a CCW permitholder - do you need help!?" All cops have the ability to deputize citizens during an emergency - it's extremely rare but it can happen.

#18indycolts · January 21, 2009, 04:47 PM

Try asking a cop what they would prefer YOU do. There won't be just one cop handling this problem for long...it won't take long for a situation like this to be crowded with cops...and you're there with your gun...think any of the cops are going to have their guns drawn on YOU? You bet.

January 17, 2009, 11:25 PM	#4
Teuthis Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2008 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 537	If something "goes down" in a room, there is no necessity for you to do anything anyway. Perhaps the best thing you can do is quietly and acutely observe. Our CCW permits are for self defense, not saving the world. The best thing you could do is nothing, but if you are threatened, get to a defensive position where, if necessary, you could protect yourself and others. The worst thing might be to engage someone in a firefight in order to stop a crime where bystanders might be hurt or killed for no good reason. Ask yourself.. are you a gunfighter with training and experience in combat and up close firefights? Are you ready to die in a close confrontation if it is not absolutely necessary? Do you want to end up in endless trouble for accidently shooting bystanders by starting a firefight when it might not have happened otherwise? I would use great caution and reserve before taking action in some situation. Life and death. __________________ Oderint dum Metuant

January 17, 2009, 11:28 PM	#6
Tatsumi67 Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2007 Posts: 575	End Thread __________________ "Do what you can, what you want, what you must,feel the hunger inside, just don't lose your trust" - KMFDM, Trust. NRA Member,Minnesota State Safety Certified, Eagle Scout Currently schemeing on an AR-15 build.

January 19, 2009, 04:17 PM	#11
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	When ever and where ever you draw your weapon you are now a target... that's why there are very strict rules of why and when you should. Just keep in mind if you ever do draw it... it is a bad day. how bad depends on a lot of things, many of them unknown.

January 20, 2009, 11:08 PM	#22
scorpion_tyr Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,326	This situation would come with so many variables that it's impossible to list them. My best answer is to just do what seems right at the time. If the BG is right next to me with the LEO across the room I'm probably going to hit the floor. If the LEO is in front or beside me I'm probably going to draw and try to position myself where I can take aim at the BG without even looking like I'm aiming at the LEO. Then I'd just keep my mouth shut. Once again... it's all about what seems right at the time. I wouldn't take a yes or no answer and run with it in every similar scenario. __________________ “Nature intended me for the tranquil pursuits of science, by rendering them my supreme delight.” - Thomas Jefferson

January 21, 2009, 04:30 PM	#24
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	What you DO is, you take cover from the bad guy's fire yet try and keep an eye on the cop. Let him/her take first crack at the problem. Don't let them know you're armed. But damned well get ready to step in if the cop is losing or runs dry because it's nearly certain that a cop-killer will try and eliminate witnesses and you WILL be the next target. As a bonus, if you can keep a wounded or ammo-less cop from getting "finished off", so much the better. If you have to let the cop know he/she has a potential ally, calmly but clearly say "I'm a CCW permitholder - do you need help!?" All cops have the ability to deputize citizens during an emergency - it's extremely rare but it can happen. __________________ Jim March

January 17, 2009, 10:51 PM	#1
Tatsumi67 Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2007 Posts: 575	Just so I don't go not knowing.. Im assuming, as its common sense, that if you are in a room when "something goes down", and there is a LEO in that room, you are to NOT draw as it defaults to the LEO to draw and interdict? I don't have my CCW yet (to young) but is that how it works? __________________ "Do what you can, what you want, what you must,feel the hunger inside, just don't lose your trust" - KMFDM, Trust. NRA Member,Minnesota State Safety Certified, Eagle Scout Currently schemeing on an AR-15 build.

January 17, 2009, 10:56 PM	#2
btolliverjr Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2008 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 423	wouldn't be a good idea. if you draw your weapon in a situation with a LEO in the room, guess who just became another target for the LEO He doesn't know that you are on his side.

January 17, 2009, 11:38 PM	#8
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	I've got to admit I'm confused by your last few posts, Tatsumi67. First you say the quoted text showed that you hadn't been clear in your question, then the same quote is what you were looking for. ???

January 17, 2009, 11:46 PM	#9
btolliverjr Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2008 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 423	+1! I'm glad I wasn't the only one that was confused by that.

January 19, 2009, 07:47 PM	#12
David Armstrong Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Location: SW Louisiana Posts: 2,289	+1 to what Teuthis said. Just because something "goes down" doesn't mean you have to get involved with it, LE presence or not. It is not a good idea to draw your weapon unless you or a loved one is in imminent danger.

January 19, 2009, 08:13 PM	#13
btolliverjr Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2008 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 423	David, Please read post #7. Are you saying that if someone elses mother or grandmother or daughter was in imminent danger and you were able to stop the threat that you wouldn't?

January 20, 2009, 03:23 PM	#14
kalstrand Member Join Date: August 22, 2008 Posts: 77	In Oklahoma the law specifically mentions you can use the firearm to defend yourself, a family member, or an employee. It doesn't say you can defend anyone else. I guess if you find yourself in a situation its up to you to decide if you will defend someone else.

January 20, 2009, 06:40 PM	#16
B.N.Real Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Posts: 4,092	If I am in the room and "something goes down" and I am armed. I WILL draw my weapon and keep it down,out of sight. I am not going to gamble on ANYBODY to keep me safe if there is someone in a room that is endangering me or anyone else in the room. You can have a drawn weapon and not be open about it. Aim it at the floor and simply be quiet. If the LEO needs help,you are ready to help. If not,you just put your handgun away.

January 20, 2009, 07:13 PM	#18
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	The idea of blithely sitting there doing nothing while a bad guy kills other people is repellent to me. That innocent person about to be killed is someone's wife, mother, brother, father, whatever. I couldn't live with myself if I knew that I had the opportunity to stop the killing and did absolutely nothing to do so.

January 21, 2009, 04:47 PM	#25
#18indycolts Junior member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Indpls Posts: 1,159	Try asking a cop what they would prefer YOU do. There won't be just one cop handling this problem for long...it won't take long for a situation like this to be crowded with cops...and you're there with your gun...think any of the cops are going to have their guns drawn on YOU? You bet.