Need help on selling procedure.

Ghostrogue45 · July 28, 2007, 03:32 PM

Hi all,
Many, many moons ago (about 20 years) I had a class III and class II. I closed down and no longer have a firearms license. I still have three weapons left of my inventory and would like to sell one of them. It's been so long since I've messed with it that I have forgotten what the procedure would be to sell it to a class III dealer. It is currently on a form 3 and is pre-ban. Could anyone advise me on what to do?

Thanks

VUPDblue · July 29, 2007, 07:00 AM

Well, if you don't have a 03FFL and you still have a NFA toy that is on a form3 not form4, then aren't you in illegal posession of the weapon?

Ghostrogue45 · July 29, 2007, 08:09 AM

ATF told me at the time that inventory automatically reverted to the owner. I had about 30 of them and sold them to class III dealers over the years but that was a long time ago. I'm not sure that I remember right but I believe it was the Class III dealer who files the paperwork. I think I send him a copy of the last form It was on and he files the transfer with ATF and then sends me the copies after approval. I believe thats the way it was done before but I'm not 100% sure.

VUPDblue · July 29, 2007, 08:35 AM

Well, if the new owner is in posession of them then you are probably OK. He must be a reputable guy to have your toys in his posession and still be willing to keep them until you sell them. Depending on what they are, I would try listing them on Subguns, Sturmgewehr or AR15.com. Each has a page for NFA items for sale.

raymond- · July 30, 2007, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Well, if you don't have a 03FFL and you still have a NFA toy that is on a form3 not form4, then aren't you in illegal posession of the weapon?

Legality of a Title 2 firearm is never determined based on the Form
which was used to transfer. When it was manufactured and how
the firearm is configured is the key.

MisterPX · July 30, 2007, 02:33 AM

Are these transferables, or dealer sample guns?
Big differnce in what happens next.

Ghostrogue45 · July 30, 2007, 04:41 AM

They were all transfered to my name and have my name on the form 3 prior to my expiration. I was not required to convert them all to form 4. But I can only sell them to a class III dealer. They were not dealer samples in that they are transfeable (Pre May 86). I sold most all of them within a couple of years after I quit the business and had no prior problems with the ATF transfers to class III dealers on this same form during that time.

Ghostrogue45 · July 30, 2007, 01:04 PM

I got it,

OK, I got the straight poop on this transfer, it's about like I remembered it. Thanks for the responses. I'm off to the MG market!

Ghostrogue45 · September 29, 2007, 11:50 AM

OK folks, My Mg is gone.( I still have more). Here is how the tranfers went down.
A new form 4 application request taxpaid transfer was use and submitted to ATF. It was approved and the approved original was given to the dealer with the gun. The form three was legal as long as I had the weapon even though I no longer had my class III. Since I'm no longer a dealer the transfer had to be done on a form 4.
Any way I thought I would post this information just in case anyone else ran into this situation.

RsqVet · September 30, 2007, 10:40 PM

What ya sellin and what ya got? Just curious, I always chuckle when anyone I know sells off a MG and buys a harley or somehting, just kind of funny you know, since at the time everyone probibly thought you were crazy for putting money into guns...

Ghostrogue45 · October 3, 2007, 12:49 PM

The one I sold was a Colt SP-1 conversion to select fire. I still have a MAC-10 cal .45 with Suppressor and an M-4 built on a Frankford Arsenal reciever. I'm buying a 25 Ft sailboat with the money from the Colt. Needles to say the Colt appreciated in value a bit since I believe I paid about $700.00 for it originally. The fact that it was pre-ban and fully transferable had a lot to do with the increase in value. I plan to hold on to the last two until I get too old to shoot them any more.

VUPDblue · October 3, 2007, 01:22 PM

I'd be happy to take that Frankford Arsenal off your hands...

Ghostrogue45 · October 3, 2007, 01:58 PM

Tempting but these will be my last so I'm a hangin on to it a while longer. I had 24 now down to two. Believe it or not the ones I miss the most are the MP-5 and the UZI.

JD's Guns · October 19, 2007, 09:25 PM

So if I understand you correctly, it was legal to have remaining inventory after your SOT and ffl expired since they were listed on a form 3 in your name?

I was wondering what would happen if or when a class III dealer decided to not renew the yearly dealer SOT and still had remaining inventory. I was curious to know if they would be forced to sell it back to the manufactorer, another dealer, or file a form 4 for each one in their name. Sounds like it would just be ok to keep them along with the proper form 3's...

Does this sound right?

shaggy · October 19, 2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Does this sound right?

Only if the guns are pre-samples or transferables. Post-samples must either be destroyed or sold to another SOT or government agency prior to the expiration of the SOT.

JD's Guns · October 20, 2007, 09:21 AM

I wonder how that would affect the ownership when that person dies? I think transferable stuff on a form 4 can get passed down (for example to your kids) when you die. What would happen to a transferable item still on a form 3?

shaggy · October 20, 2007, 10:08 AM

Good question, JD. Transferables on a F4 can be transfered (tax-free) through the estate to an heir. My guess is that transferables on a F3 would still pass tax free as the the former SOT/owner owned them in connection with their SOT and therefore no transfer tax was due.

MisterPX · October 20, 2007, 09:28 PM

I would think F5 to the heir.

CleverNickname · October 21, 2007, 11:41 AM

Yes, form 3s are only for tax-free transfers between SOTs. Tax-free transfers for non-licensees (from an estate to a designated heir or to/from law enforcement agencies) are on form 5s.

July 28, 2007, 03:32 PM	#1
Ghostrogue45 Junior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Posts: 7	Need help on selling procedure. Hi all, Many, many moons ago (about 20 years) I had a class III and class II. I closed down and no longer have a firearms license. I still have three weapons left of my inventory and would like to sell one of them. It's been so long since I've messed with it that I have forgotten what the procedure would be to sell it to a class III dealer. It is currently on a form 3 and is pre-ban. Could anyone advise me on what to do? Thanks

July 29, 2007, 07:00 AM	#2
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	Well, if you don't have a 03FFL and you still have a NFA toy that is on a form3 not form4, then aren't you in illegal posession of the weapon? __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

July 29, 2007, 08:35 AM	#4
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	Well, if the new owner is in posession of them then you are probably OK. He must be a reputable guy to have your toys in his posession and still be willing to keep them until you sell them. Depending on what they are, I would try listing them on Subguns, Sturmgewehr or AR15.com. Each has a page for NFA items for sale. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

July 30, 2007, 04:41 AM	#7
Ghostrogue45 Junior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Posts: 7	They were all transfered to my name and have my name on the form 3 prior to my expiration. I was not required to convert them all to form 4. But I can only sell them to a class III dealer. They were not dealer samples in that they are transfeable (Pre May 86). I sold most all of them within a couple of years after I quit the business and had no prior problems with the ATF transfers to class III dealers on this same form during that time. Last edited by Ghostrogue45; July 30, 2007 at 09:01 AM.

September 29, 2007, 11:50 AM	#9
Ghostrogue45 Junior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Posts: 7	results of transfer Usefull information. OK folks, My Mg is gone.( I still have more). Here is how the tranfers went down. A new form 4 application request taxpaid transfer was use and submitted to ATF. It was approved and the approved original was given to the dealer with the gun. The form three was legal as long as I had the weapon even though I no longer had my class III. Since I'm no longer a dealer the transfer had to be done on a form 4. Any way I thought I would post this information just in case anyone else ran into this situation.

July 29, 2007, 08:09 AM	#3
Ghostrogue45 Junior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Posts: 7	ATF told me at the time that inventory automatically reverted to the owner. I had about 30 of them and sold them to class III dealers over the years but that was a long time ago. I'm not sure that I remember right but I believe it was the Class III dealer who files the paperwork. I think I send him a copy of the last form It was on and he files the transfer with ATF and then sends me the copies after approval. I believe thats the way it was done before but I'm not 100% sure.

July 30, 2007, 02:33 AM	#6
MisterPX Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2006 Location: Amerika's Doyleland Posts: 809	Are these transferables, or dealer sample guns? Big differnce in what happens next.

July 30, 2007, 01:04 PM	#8
Ghostrogue45 Junior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Posts: 7	I got it, OK, I got the straight poop on this transfer, it's about like I remembered it. Thanks for the responses. I'm off to the MG market!

September 30, 2007, 10:40 PM	#10
RsqVet Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Posts: 2,474	What ya sellin and what ya got? Just curious, I always chuckle when anyone I know sells off a MG and buys a harley or somehting, just kind of funny you know, since at the time everyone probibly thought you were crazy for putting money into guns...

October 3, 2007, 12:49 PM	#11
Ghostrogue45 Junior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Posts: 7	Still got two but going to hang on for a while. The one I sold was a Colt SP-1 conversion to select fire. I still have a MAC-10 cal .45 with Suppressor and an M-4 built on a Frankford Arsenal reciever. I'm buying a 25 Ft sailboat with the money from the Colt. Needles to say the Colt appreciated in value a bit since I believe I paid about $700.00 for it originally. The fact that it was pre-ban and fully transferable had a lot to do with the increase in value. I plan to hold on to the last two until I get too old to shoot them any more.

October 3, 2007, 01:22 PM	#12
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	I'd be happy to take that Frankford Arsenal off your hands... __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

October 3, 2007, 01:58 PM	#13
Ghostrogue45 Junior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Posts: 7	Tempting Tempting but these will be my last so I'm a hangin on to it a while longer. I had 24 now down to two. Believe it or not the ones I miss the most are the MP-5 and the UZI.

October 19, 2007, 09:25 PM	#14
JD's Guns Junior Member Join Date: October 11, 2007 Posts: 2	So if I understand you correctly, it was legal to have remaining inventory after your SOT and ffl expired since they were listed on a form 3 in your name? I was wondering what would happen if or when a class III dealer decided to not renew the yearly dealer SOT and still had remaining inventory. I was curious to know if they would be forced to sell it back to the manufactorer, another dealer, or file a form 4 for each one in their name. Sounds like it would just be ok to keep them along with the proper form 3's... Does this sound right?

October 20, 2007, 09:21 AM	#16
JD's Guns Junior Member Join Date: October 11, 2007 Posts: 2	I wonder how that would affect the ownership when that person dies? I think transferable stuff on a form 4 can get passed down (for example to your kids) when you die. What would happen to a transferable item still on a form 3?

October 20, 2007, 10:08 AM	#17
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	Good question, JD. Transferables on a F4 can be transfered (tax-free) through the estate to an heir. My guess is that transferables on a F3 would still pass tax free as the the former SOT/owner owned them in connection with their SOT and therefore no transfer tax was due.

October 20, 2007, 09:28 PM	#18
MisterPX Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2006 Location: Amerika's Doyleland Posts: 809	I would think F5 to the heir.

October 21, 2007, 11:41 AM	#19
CleverNickname Member Join Date: August 3, 2002 Posts: 69	Yes, form 3s are only for tax-free transfers between SOTs. Tax-free transfers for non-licensees (from an estate to a designated heir or to/from law enforcement agencies) are on form 5s.