Double barrel slug gun ???

Magnum Wheel Man · April 30, 2007, 01:47 PM

in the rifle forum, there was a thread about what you would use for a charging coastal brown ( reads huge & mean ) bear...

I have a custom 50 A.E. lever gun I had built for this same purpose, but in thinking while responding to the post, a double barrel 12 gauge with rifled barrels regulated to 50 yards might be a better solution... hmmm... maybe I need one...

curious if there is anything out there similar ( don't want to have to re-invent the wheel ), or if there are some suggestions for an action to use for building such a gun... this gun would have to be able to handle the stoutest of slug ammo, I don't know if there are any specific advantages or disadvantages for a side by side, or over under, & or if there are BATF problems with setting up a double barrel in this fashon ??? my thinking is a double barrel, minimum barrel length 2 rifled 12 gauge barrels, for use on dangerous game at too close a range

???

Smitty in CT · April 30, 2007, 02:50 PM

There is nothing currently preventing you from shooting rifled slugs out of a smooth-bore SXS or O/U provided it isn't choked too tight. At 50 yards you will still be able to hit a bear-sized target....Besides if you miss, he's probably getting closer!!!

It would be a whole lot cheaper than trying to have barrels "rifled".

As far as BATF, double-barreled shotguns still fall under the 18" barrel / 26" OAL rule.

Just because it's a .73 caliber, doesn't mean it's not a shotgun...

Dfariswheel · April 30, 2007, 02:58 PM

Any modern double barrel shotgun will be perfectly safe, and appropriate to shoot with slugs.
There are no legal issues, since it's still a shotgun, no matter whether you shoot birdshot, buckshot, or slugs.

The problem is going to be regulating the barrels. Shotgun gunsmiths who are capable of doing this are RARE, and horrendously expensive.
Since any bear that's a real threat is going to be at closer ranges, you don't need pinpoint accuracy at 50 yards or more, so you likely won't need to worry about regulating the barrels at all.
At under 50 yards most shotguns will shoot close enough together you probably won't need any adjustment.

A good experiment would be to borrow a good double and attach some temporary rifle sights.
Do some shooting with various brands of slugs to find one that works well in THAT particular gun.
This will give you at least an idea of what to expect.
Again, since demanding great regulation at anything over 50 yards is not necessary, I'm sure you won't need to spend the huge amount of money to regulate the barrels.

Once you know what's what, I'd buy a good double and send it out to someone like Hans Vang to have the barrels cut down to a handier length, the chokes opened up to probably Improved Cylinder, and get some rifle sights permanently mounted.

The choice between a double and and over-and-under is a matter of personal preference.
These days, there's a much wider selection of over-and-under guns, and at a wider price range than doubles.
Due to the nature of the target, simplicity in the guns action is key.
I'd probably look for a gun with double triggers and few, if any options like automatic ejection.

The old African hunters used simple double rifles because they are basically TWO guns joined together. If one failed, the other side would still save their life.
Single triggers can fail to operate, and other feature complicate the design, and compromise the reliability.

Magnum Wheel Man · April 30, 2007, 03:37 PM

How are the CZ shot guns ???

I have hand guns & rifles from them & they all rate good to very good... I noticed they have some interesting double barrels, but they are typically at a fraction of the price of most other manufacturers... is the quality way down on thier shotguns, or are they just that good of "value" ???

liliysdad · April 30, 2007, 04:03 PM

Stoeger Outback seems ideal for this purpose.

PTR 91 · April 30, 2007, 04:11 PM

The CZ Durango seems very nice.

Cameron · April 30, 2007, 04:51 PM

I am like the ability to make multiple follow up shots and I would want more than 2 shots at any charging bear, I nice semi or pump with one barrel and slugs seems a more logical solution to a "pest bear interaction".

Otherwise, I could imagine the bear charging and me throwing both barrels at him, and him doing a Matrix type pivot and both shots completely missing....

liliysdad · April 30, 2007, 05:17 PM

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/fir...or-outback.tpl

FirstFreedom · April 30, 2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

hmmm... maybe I need one...

Damn you to heck. Now I do too ("need" one).

FirstFreedom · April 30, 2007, 07:00 PM

And I agree with MWM, that smoothbore just ain't the same as a true rifled slug barrel.

I just read at thehighroad that Bernardelli makes a 2-barrel rifled gun, but they don't import them, and if you could get one, it'd be very expensive.

This Baikal/Remington-Spartan side-by-side in .45-70 is not a double 12 ga slug gun, but it IS a poor-man's version of a double rifle, in a pretty good bear-stopper caliber:

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...PR22_specs.asp

You can get it in either .45-70 or .30-'06

They are cheaper than double rifles because you regulate the barrels yourself, with an adjustable screw mechanism...anyone know if the regulating screws on this Baikal are adjustable for windage only, or both windage & elevation???

Probably the best route to take for shooting a reasonably-accurate, poor-man's rifled 2-bbl slug gun is to get any old double barrel shotgun with interchangeable choke tubes, then get some rifled choke tubes that extend out a bit, and impart a bit of spin to the slug or sabot.

bcarver · April 30, 2007, 07:21 PM

Check out the Thread titled "12 gauge from hell" in the rifle section.
Now if you had two of those in an 18" barrel with extended rifle chokes and double triggers You could sent both 600 gr slugs down range 1800 fps.
At that point a bear mauling would seem pleasing.

Jim Watson · April 30, 2007, 07:44 PM

Bernardelli makes a slug double, regulated and sighted for Brennekes. No need to rifle. Other European makes used to do that, I have seen them on the shelves and I had an old Shooter's Bible with a listing for Walther shotguns sighted for slugs.

A friend fooled with his SKB and slugs. The barrels were nowhere close; the only option would be to sight for a slug out of one and shoot buck in the other.

I understand the Alaska fish & game people carry pumpguns full of Brennekes for bear defense. Light, cheap, and powerful.

FirstFreedom · April 30, 2007, 08:57 PM

Although a muzzleloader, not a modern self-contained cartridge breechloading rifle, it is in fact a double-barreled rifle in .72 caliber rifle, same as a 12 guage:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...d_blk_pwdr_rfl

Problem is, word on the street is that the barrel regulation stinks on them.

Ruger4570 · April 30, 2007, 09:27 PM

I read this post out of curiosity and found it fun. I don't expect to be shooting any really big bears, but if I had to use a shotgun it would be a semi with Brennekes, and lots of them. I read about the pump advocates but believe that semi's are every bit as dependable. I have a Berreta 390 and a couple of Rem 1100's and have never had a glitch, especially with heavier loadings. I tend to prefer a semi for bad situations. Semi auto have become so reliable it isn't funny, besides, in a bad situation, I have never heard of a semi short shucking a shell in a moment of fear or panic..

FirstFreedom · April 30, 2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

At that point a bear mauling would seem pleasing.

The Hubel 12 ga from hell double rifle, if ever made, would indeed be the ultimate bearstopper & shoulder-dislocator. Who needs attached retinas, anyway?

HUBEL458 · April 30, 2007, 09:51 PM

Ed here- If I'm around long enough to get all the
parts we will have a 12GA FH double. But you know
with our loads we found for slugs, in regular 3"
plastic cases, some brand of smoothbore slug and
our loads should regulate in the heavier
barreled doubles.Just have to test.Ed

April 30, 2007, 01:47 PM	#1
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Double barrel slug gun ??? in the rifle forum, there was a thread about what you would use for a charging coastal brown ( reads huge & mean ) bear... I have a custom 50 A.E. lever gun I had built for this same purpose, but in thinking while responding to the post, a double barrel 12 gauge with rifled barrels regulated to 50 yards might be a better solution... hmmm... maybe I need one... curious if there is anything out there similar ( don't want to have to re-invent the wheel ), or if there are some suggestions for an action to use for building such a gun... this gun would have to be able to handle the stoutest of slug ammo, I don't know if there are any specific advantages or disadvantages for a side by side, or over under, & or if there are BATF problems with setting up a double barrel in this fashon ??? my thinking is a double barrel, minimum barrel length 2 rifled 12 gauge barrels, for use on dangerous game at too close a range ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 30, 2007, 02:50 PM	#2
Smitty in CT Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2006 Location: Moodus, CT Posts: 590	There is nothing currently preventing you from shooting rifled slugs out of a smooth-bore SXS or O/U provided it isn't choked too tight. At 50 yards you will still be able to hit a bear-sized target....Besides if you miss, he's probably getting closer!!! It would be a whole lot cheaper than trying to have barrels "rifled". As far as BATF, double-barreled shotguns still fall under the 18" barrel / 26" OAL rule. Just because it's a .73 caliber, doesn't mean it's not a shotgun... __________________ Smitty "The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." -- Gen. George Patton

April 30, 2007, 03:37 PM	#4
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	How are the CZ shot guns ??? I have hand guns & rifles from them & they all rate good to very good... I noticed they have some interesting double barrels, but they are typically at a fraction of the price of most other manufacturers... is the quality way down on thier shotguns, or are they just that good of "value" ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 30, 2007, 07:21 PM	#11
bcarver Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2007 Location: Jackson,Mississippi Posts: 838	ed hubel 12 gauge Check out the Thread titled "12 gauge from hell" in the rifle section. Now if you had two of those in an 18" barrel with extended rifle chokes and double triggers You could sent both 600 gr slugs down range 1800 fps. At that point a bear mauling would seem pleasing.

April 30, 2007, 08:57 PM	#13
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	Another option.... Although a muzzleloader, not a modern self-contained cartridge breechloading rifle, it is in fact a double-barreled rifle in .72 caliber rifle, same as a 12 guage: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...d_blk_pwdr_rfl Problem is, word on the street is that the barrel regulation stinks on them.

April 30, 2007, 02:58 PM	#3
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Any modern double barrel shotgun will be perfectly safe, and appropriate to shoot with slugs. There are no legal issues, since it's still a shotgun, no matter whether you shoot birdshot, buckshot, or slugs. The problem is going to be regulating the barrels. Shotgun gunsmiths who are capable of doing this are RARE, and horrendously expensive. Since any bear that's a real threat is going to be at closer ranges, you don't need pinpoint accuracy at 50 yards or more, so you likely won't need to worry about regulating the barrels at all. At under 50 yards most shotguns will shoot close enough together you probably won't need any adjustment. A good experiment would be to borrow a good double and attach some temporary rifle sights. Do some shooting with various brands of slugs to find one that works well in THAT particular gun. This will give you at least an idea of what to expect. Again, since demanding great regulation at anything over 50 yards is not necessary, I'm sure you won't need to spend the huge amount of money to regulate the barrels. Once you know what's what, I'd buy a good double and send it out to someone like Hans Vang to have the barrels cut down to a handier length, the chokes opened up to probably Improved Cylinder, and get some rifle sights permanently mounted. The choice between a double and and over-and-under is a matter of personal preference. These days, there's a much wider selection of over-and-under guns, and at a wider price range than doubles. Due to the nature of the target, simplicity in the guns action is key. I'd probably look for a gun with double triggers and few, if any options like automatic ejection. The old African hunters used simple double rifles because they are basically TWO guns joined together. If one failed, the other side would still save their life. Single triggers can fail to operate, and other feature complicate the design, and compromise the reliability.

April 30, 2007, 04:03 PM	#5
liliysdad Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2004 Posts: 1,145	Stoeger Outback seems ideal for this purpose.

April 30, 2007, 04:11 PM	#6
PTR 91 Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2007 Posts: 264	The CZ Durango seems very nice.

April 30, 2007, 04:51 PM	#7
Cameron Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Posts: 113	I am like the ability to make multiple follow up shots and I would want more than 2 shots at any charging bear, I nice semi or pump with one barrel and slugs seems a more logical solution to a "pest bear interaction". Otherwise, I could imagine the bear charging and me throwing both barrels at him, and him doing a Matrix type pivot and both shots completely missing....

April 30, 2007, 05:17 PM	#8
liliysdad Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2004 Posts: 1,145	http://www.stoegerindustries.com/fir...or-outback.tpl

April 30, 2007, 07:00 PM	#10
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	And I agree with MWM, that smoothbore just ain't the same as a true rifled slug barrel. I just read at thehighroad that Bernardelli makes a 2-barrel rifled gun, but they don't import them, and if you could get one, it'd be very expensive. This Baikal/Remington-Spartan side-by-side in .45-70 is not a double 12 ga slug gun, but it IS a poor-man's version of a double rifle, in a pretty good bear-stopper caliber: http://www.remington.com/products/fi...PR22_specs.asp You can get it in either .45-70 or .30-'06 They are cheaper than double rifles because you regulate the barrels yourself, with an adjustable screw mechanism...anyone know if the regulating screws on this Baikal are adjustable for windage only, or both windage & elevation??? Probably the best route to take for shooting a reasonably-accurate, poor-man's rifled 2-bbl slug gun is to get any old double barrel shotgun with interchangeable choke tubes, then get some rifled choke tubes that extend out a bit, and impart a bit of spin to the slug or sabot.

April 30, 2007, 07:44 PM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Bernardelli makes a slug double, regulated and sighted for Brennekes. No need to rifle. Other European makes used to do that, I have seen them on the shelves and I had an old Shooter's Bible with a listing for Walther shotguns sighted for slugs. A friend fooled with his SKB and slugs. The barrels were nowhere close; the only option would be to sight for a slug out of one and shoot buck in the other. I understand the Alaska fish & game people carry pumpguns full of Brennekes for bear defense. Light, cheap, and powerful.

April 30, 2007, 09:27 PM	#14
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	I read this post out of curiosity and found it fun. I don't expect to be shooting any really big bears, but if I had to use a shotgun it would be a semi with Brennekes, and lots of them. I read about the pump advocates but believe that semi's are every bit as dependable. I have a Berreta 390 and a couple of Rem 1100's and have never had a glitch, especially with heavier loadings. I tend to prefer a semi for bad situations. Semi auto have become so reliable it isn't funny, besides, in a bad situation, I have never heard of a semi short shucking a shell in a moment of fear or panic..

April 30, 2007, 09:51 PM	#16
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 751	Ed here- If I'm around long enough to get all the parts we will have a 12GA FH double. But you know with our loads we found for slugs, in regular 3" plastic cases, some brand of smoothbore slug and our loads should regulate in the heavier barreled doubles.Just have to test.Ed __________________ ED HUBEL