Defense 12ga semi-auto: Benelli M2 or Remington 11-87

Para Bellum · August 12, 2005, 04:02 PM

Hi there,

I am trying to figure out, which of these to buy. Any experience or preferences? On these pics it seems the remington has a higher magazine capacity. But their website doesn't give clear info on that...

Benelli M2:

Remington 11-87 (I'd also get a pistol-grip for this one)

or would you recommend any other autoloader?

mathman · August 12, 2005, 04:09 PM

Get an 870.

Out of the choices, I like the Benelli better for defense and the 1187 better for shooting (because of less recoil). Recoil (to me) is not an issue in defense situations. I don't think that mag capacity is as much of an issue when talking about a shotgun...hell, after 1 or 2 rounds everyone is going to scatter...that's the real reason they are called 'scatter guns.'

sendec · August 12, 2005, 04:18 PM

I have a M1S90 and an 11-87, both in police trim,

My go-to defensive shotgun is a Mossberg 500. I also have an 870 standing by.

Neither auto is sufficiently reliable to suit me, nor will the (marginal) increase is speed make up for their lack of flexibility in ammo selection.

You dont say what you want it for, but because you posted police models I assume it is for defense. For the price of either you can get a good pump and a lot of practice ammo or training..........

SR420 · August 12, 2005, 04:20 PM

I purchased my HK/Benelli brand new in 1993
and would not replace it with any other make.

I have fired many rounds without a problem.

About 5 years ago I began upgradeing all of my
weapons. My .223 Bushy was replaced with an M1A.
My .40 Glock was replaced with a G21 .45 Auto.

I could not find a shotgun that was an upgrade
over my old Benelli - - - It's a keeper

locked'n'cocked · August 12, 2005, 05:02 PM

of the two i would go with the 870, i think the gas system is more reliable then the inertia system. just personal preference mostly. if i was going to buy a hd shotgun my self i would get a rem. 870, maybe a mossberg 500 or even a winchester 1300 just because they are pump guns. there is a lot less to go wrong with them then with the auto.

Skeetin'870 · August 12, 2005, 09:46 PM

All these people knocking the inertia system. I have never seen it fail as long as you use 1oz loads which is less than you will likely see in HD it will work. They are very easy to clean which you do as often as that 870. Infact a benelli sport 2 has had less malfunctions than my 870. He hasnt cleaned it in over 4000 rounds. Get the benelli you wont regret it but IMO dont get the pistol grip.

Para Bellum · August 13, 2005, 03:44 PM

see above. So I have to go for a semi as a defense 12ga...

azspyder · August 13, 2005, 04:15 PM

For what it's worth... I have an 870 (sorry, my gut tells me it's more reliable than any self-loader), 18", 7 round equiped with a Stockshox (6 position adjustable for LOP, with pistol grip), a Surefire with a pressure switch bracketed to the mag tube and a recently added TacStar pistol grip forend. I really anguished about changing the forend as the stock one worked fine and I thought the foreward pistol grip was a little too Rambo, but I was wrong. I find it very easy to handle either at the shoulder or under my arm. I use Hornady TAP 00 buck. My wife really likes it since I put the new forend on. BTW, she is 5'2", 116 lbs.
As I said...for what it's worth.

CorpseEater · August 13, 2005, 05:56 PM

Hey Para, thats weird! I'd never heard of that, a pump being illegal but not a semi.. whats the thought behind that?

What country you in? Obviously Europe somewhere, I'm just curious.

Sorry I dont have much to add to this, I haven't had any experience with autos, just pumps!

Good luck, hopefully you make the right decsion!

Para Bellum · August 14, 2005, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Hey Para, thats weird! I'd never heard of that, a pump being illegal but not a semi.. whats the thought behind that?

It is weird. I live in Austria. The gun-laws are somewhat liberal but with strange exceptions. We eg can legally buy a Stery-AUG-Z:

Also EMB-Ammo is legal here, which is illegal in the US as I understand because it's armor piercing....

The pumps were banned because they became the favourite weapon of a series of bank-robberies. Fully political. fully non-sense...

TennesseeMedic · August 14, 2005, 06:25 AM

I own a Rem. 870 and a Mossberg 590, I employ both of them in law enforcement. While both are dependable, I prefer the Mossberg simply because it served me well in a tactical situation and combat loading is simplified. I've seen many hand and finger injuries on the range due to auto loaders. The Mossberg will eat anything you feed it and nothing gets your attention like the sound of a pump. I also have pistol grips on both of them for versatility and handling.

RevolverLover · August 14, 2005, 12:17 PM

Para Bellum, I have seen both Benelli and Remington semi-autos choke on the range but some can be quite reliable. So, its a tough call. But if I had to choose I would pick the 11-87 because mainly because I liked it more than the Benelli. Do you have the opinion of trying them out?

TennesseeMedic, he already said pumps are illegal in his country.

coleman27 · August 14, 2005, 12:46 PM

Benelli m4 if you can afford it.

xenophobe · August 16, 2005, 02:16 PM

Straight from the Remmy factory with pistol grip, scattergun tech sights and a foregrip.... that's my choice.

mathman · August 16, 2005, 02:41 PM

Well, like I said earlier, I would take the Benelli over the 11-87 for self defense simply because the Benelli is more reliable. I have a Benelli M1 Field 12 guage (24 inch barrel) and it has never malfunctioned once (probably a couple thousand rounds through it). And although the 11-87 is very reliable, it is still less reliable than the Benelli...the price is that the Benelli kicks more (both at the shoulder and in the wallet), but in defense situations I don't think that is an issue.

Para Bellum · August 17, 2005, 04:01 PM

As stated before, I'd like a 12ga Pump Gun, but here in Austria, they're illegal. 12ga semi-autos are legal. Thats political law-making after a series of crimes comitted with pumps...

BUT: Pump-action-rifles are legal here. So I could get a
15-shot .223 Pump-rifle (Remingtion 7615p):

or a 4-shot .308 Pump-rilfe (Remington 7600p):

Would you prefer these over 12ga semi-autos?

Cawdor · August 17, 2005, 04:35 PM

HK Fabarm. No longer imported but serviced by HK. $599 at CDNN

Dninty9 · August 19, 2005, 05:00 PM

I would get a mossberg 500 cruiser ..They are cheap and work great ..You can put any tactical stuff on them that you want ..alot of up grades for them .All around a great choice ..

RevolverLover · August 20, 2005, 12:19 AM

Dninty9, he already said that he can't legally own a pump shotgun in his country.

Para Bellum, I would prefer the a pump-action rifle to a semi-auto shotgun because I feel that the semi-auto shotgun isn't as reliable to a pump. I have only had experience with the 7600P in .308 and it was accurate and reliable but I would have liked a larger mag.

Dninty9 · August 20, 2005, 04:46 PM

Sorry......

August 12, 2005, 04:02 PM	#1
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	Defense 12ga semi-auto: Benelli M2 or Remington 11-87 Hi there, I am trying to figure out, which of these to buy. Any experience or preferences? On these pics it seems the remington has a higher magazine capacity. But their website doesn't give clear info on that... Benelli M2: Remington 11-87 (I'd also get a pistol-grip for this one) or would you recommend any other autoloader? __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

August 12, 2005, 04:20 PM	#4
SR420 Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 3,336	Get the Benelli I purchased my HK/Benelli brand new in 1993 and would not replace it with any other make. I have fired many rounds without a problem. About 5 years ago I began upgradeing all of my weapons. My .223 Bushy was replaced with an M1A. My .40 Glock was replaced with a G21 .45 Auto. I could not find a shotgun that was an upgrade over my old Benelli - - - It's a keeper __________________ The History and Development of the M14 EBR

August 12, 2005, 05:02 PM	#5
locked'n'cocked Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2005 Location: MN, USof A Posts: 214	of the two i would go with the 870, i think the gas system is more reliable then the inertia system. just personal preference mostly. if i was going to buy a hd shotgun my self i would get a rem. 870, maybe a mossberg 500 or even a winchester 1300 just because they are pump guns. there is a lot less to go wrong with them then with the auto. __________________ locked 'n' cocked "Make haste, slowly." Wyatt Earp

August 12, 2005, 09:46 PM	#6
Skeetin'870 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2005 Location: Tulsa,Ok. Posts: 288	All these people knocking the inertia system. I have never seen it fail as long as you use 1oz loads which is less than you will likely see in HD it will work. They are very easy to clean which you do as often as that 870. Infact a benelli sport 2 has had less malfunctions than my 870. He hasnt cleaned it in over 4000 rounds. Get the benelli you wont regret it but IMO dont get the pistol grip. __________________ Mental prep for skeet 1 Look for the Bird 2 Gun speed to target speed 3 Head on the gun 4 Follow Through

August 13, 2005, 03:44 PM	#7
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	Believe it or not: In my country pump is illegal, semi-auto is legal see above. So I have to go for a semi as a defense 12ga... __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

August 12, 2005, 04:09 PM	#2
mathman Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,531	Get an 870. Out of the choices, I like the Benelli better for defense and the 1187 better for shooting (because of less recoil). Recoil (to me) is not an issue in defense situations. I don't think that mag capacity is as much of an issue when talking about a shotgun...hell, after 1 or 2 rounds everyone is going to scatter...that's the real reason they are called 'scatter guns.'

August 12, 2005, 04:18 PM	#3
sendec Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2005 Posts: 517	I have a M1S90 and an 11-87, both in police trim, My go-to defensive shotgun is a Mossberg 500. I also have an 870 standing by. Neither auto is sufficiently reliable to suit me, nor will the (marginal) increase is speed make up for their lack of flexibility in ammo selection. You dont say what you want it for, but because you posted police models I assume it is for defense. For the price of either you can get a good pump and a lot of practice ammo or training..........

August 13, 2005, 04:15 PM	#8
azspyder Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Scottsdale AZ Posts: 154	For what it's worth... I have an 870 (sorry, my gut tells me it's more reliable than any self-loader), 18", 7 round equiped with a Stockshox (6 position adjustable for LOP, with pistol grip), a Surefire with a pressure switch bracketed to the mag tube and a recently added TacStar pistol grip forend. I really anguished about changing the forend as the stock one worked fine and I thought the foreward pistol grip was a little too Rambo, but I was wrong. I find it very easy to handle either at the shoulder or under my arm. I use Hornady TAP 00 buck. My wife really likes it since I put the new forend on. BTW, she is 5'2", 116 lbs. As I said...for what it's worth.

August 13, 2005, 05:56 PM	#9
CorpseEater Member Join Date: January 3, 2005 Location: East of the gators, west of the sharks Posts: 32	Hey Para, thats weird! I'd never heard of that, a pump being illegal but not a semi.. whats the thought behind that? What country you in? Obviously Europe somewhere, I'm just curious. Sorry I dont have much to add to this, I haven't had any experience with autos, just pumps! Good luck, hopefully you make the right decsion!

August 14, 2005, 06:25 AM	#11
TennesseeMedic Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Tennessee. Posts: 91	Get a pump I own a Rem. 870 and a Mossberg 590, I employ both of them in law enforcement. While both are dependable, I prefer the Mossberg simply because it served me well in a tactical situation and combat loading is simplified. I've seen many hand and finger injuries on the range due to auto loaders. The Mossberg will eat anything you feed it and nothing gets your attention like the sound of a pump. I also have pistol grips on both of them for versatility and handling. __________________ "If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." Thomas Paine "When you see a rattle snake poised to strike, you do not wait until he has struck before you crush him." Franklin D. Roosevelt :cool

August 14, 2005, 12:17 PM	#12
RevolverLover Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Posts: 1,682	Para Bellum, I have seen both Benelli and Remington semi-autos choke on the range but some can be quite reliable. So, its a tough call. But if I had to choose I would pick the 11-87 because mainly because I liked it more than the Benelli. Do you have the opinion of trying them out? TennesseeMedic, he already said pumps are illegal in his country.

August 14, 2005, 12:46 PM	#13
coleman27 Junior member Join Date: August 14, 2005 Posts: 2	Benelli m4 if you can afford it.

August 16, 2005, 02:16 PM	#14
xenophobe Junior Member Join Date: August 15, 2005 Posts: 7	Straight from the Remmy factory with pistol grip, scattergun tech sights and a foregrip.... that's my choice.

August 16, 2005, 02:41 PM	#15
mathman Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,531	Well, like I said earlier, I would take the Benelli over the 11-87 for self defense simply because the Benelli is more reliable. I have a Benelli M1 Field 12 guage (24 inch barrel) and it has never malfunctioned once (probably a couple thousand rounds through it). And although the 11-87 is very reliable, it is still less reliable than the Benelli...the price is that the Benelli kicks more (both at the shoulder and in the wallet), but in defense situations I don't think that is an issue.

August 17, 2005, 04:01 PM	#16
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	.223 Pump over a 12ga semi-auto? As stated before, I'd like a 12ga Pump Gun, but here in Austria, they're illegal. 12ga semi-autos are legal. Thats political law-making after a series of crimes comitted with pumps... BUT: Pump-action-rifles are legal here. So I could get a 15-shot .223 Pump-rifle (Remingtion 7615p): or a 4-shot .308 Pump-rilfe (Remington 7600p): Would you prefer these over 12ga semi-autos? __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

August 17, 2005, 04:35 PM	#17
Cawdor Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 1998 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 619	HK Fabarm. No longer imported but serviced by HK. $599 at CDNN

August 20, 2005, 12:19 AM	#19
RevolverLover Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Posts: 1,682	Dninty9, he already said that he can't legally own a pump shotgun in his country. Para Bellum, I would prefer the a pump-action rifle to a semi-auto shotgun because I feel that the semi-auto shotgun isn't as reliable to a pump. I have only had experience with the 7600P in .308 and it was accurate and reliable but I would have liked a larger mag.

August 20, 2005, 04:46 PM	#20
Dninty9 Member Join Date: August 7, 2005 Posts: 19	Sorry......