Yet another comparison question...Mossberg 590 vs. Win 1300

[kraigster414]

Both with 18 in. barrels. Concerned primarily about quality of construction/design and performance, not add-on dodads. Thanks.

I just can't make up my mind!

[Skeetin'870]

Mossbergs are cheap. Modern winchester have poor build quiality get a 870.

[waltn]

Mossbergs are good and have tang safety (great for Leftys). Winchester has Aluminum receiver (Lightweight).

If you intent is to just have a HD SG then either will do. Rem 870 has steel receiver and alot are showing up as Police TradeIns (only because of age). For HD a 2-3/4" chamber with Low Recoil Police 00 Buck is more than adequate. Ask Clint Smith or Louis Awerbuck or Robbie Barkkman (sp?). I've had each as an instructor.

Early Mossbergs didn't hold up during Shotgun Class. Later models did. Winchester 1200/1300 did okay. Rem 870 didn't fail.

[tarpleyg]

Modern winchester have poor build quiality

Says who? You? With a sig line like yours, what else can I expect.

Nothing at all wrong with Winchesters (or Mossberg or Ithaca or Remington for that matter).

Greg

[tollfree969]

I'm agreeing with tarpleyg. A Winchester will outlive you, as well as a Mossberg or Remington. They are very compatable guns. I own a Defender and I love it. Go with your gut. You will be pleased either way.

[Wraith]

I must say, I love my 590.

[itsmike762]

Either one will serve you well, it's a matter of personal choice. The 1300 that I own is about as smooth an action as you will ever find. I have never shot a 590, but I know the Mossberg 500s that Army is using in Iraq now are holding up real well. The best thing you could do is the try and find shooting buddies that have both and try them out head to head. If you can't do that just go to your gun shop and put both in your hands to find out which feels more comfortable in your hands, either one will serve you well.

[utaherrn]

Winchester uses a single screw to attach a plate under the bolt that the action bars lock into as well as hold the firing pin and spring in place. With enough buckshot or slugs, this screw will shear off sooner or later, locking up the gun. After replacing this screw several times on my Defender I had to have the plate welded to the bolt. I still have the gun, but it's used for recreation only, not trusted for saving my bacon. Mostly use it to let the kids blow up marauding watermelons in the summer and pumpkins in the fall

For anything other than serious HD duty and training, the Winchester design is as smooth as glass. My first shotgun was an early 80s glossy finished 1300 in 20 ga. Still have it, still use it, still like it.

your mileage may, of course, vary.

[kraigster414]

Interesting post above regarding the single screw issue with the Win 1300. This is the first, I repeat the first time I have EVER heard anyone call into question the quality/design of the 1300. In fact, unless you are comparing it to the Rem 870P with its beefed up parts, the Win 1300, Mossberg 590, Rem 870 Express are all basically equal IMHO and their owners will wear out long before they do. So this leads me to my next question and that is how does one quantify the statement that a failure is inevitable - other than the fact that it happened to one individual? Does the poster have anyting in the way of documented data to suggest a systemic problem? No offense but what are his credentials? Is he a metalurgist? Gunsmith? Police armorer? Thanks.

[hawken50]

i have a Winchester 1300 Ranger (it's a bit smaller than the full size) in 20ga. that's never let me down. i've taken deer, turkey, pheasant, and clays with it. the slide was quite stiff when it was brand new but now, it's about 1 yr old, it's smooth as silk. i think the smaller size would make it ideal for hd too.

[utaherrn]

No impressive credentials, no master's degree in Metallurgy or Mechanical Engineering, no advanced training in Druidic Alchemy, not a SEAL or Delta sniper, certainly not a Mall Ninja. Never pretended such. Just offered as a personal experience with the Winchester design.

I was shooting a lot of buckshot and slugs, and admit that the wear and tear on that gun was probably far more than most people have on theirs. Factory ammo, gun was well maintained, not shooting 250 rounds of heavy stuff per session. Yada, yada, yada. Went through 6 screws in a year and a half before I resorted to the welding solution and have had no problems since. Still shoot lots of buckshot through it. Just won't personally trust that design for HD use anymore.

Up until that point had never heard of the failure either. Have heard of others since.

When I called Winchester to order the part, they suggested I buy several. That was an insight.

Not alluding to anything, not suggesting it's a systematic problem, meant exactly what I said, ie: I feel that it's just not engineered well enough to stand up to lots of heavy duty use for my needs/wants/trust. As I said, your milage may vary.

I have just as many rounds of buckshot and slugs (probably more) through my 590 now as I had through the Winchester then, and have only experienced a problem with reliable feeding once related to inadequate cleaning on my part. I'll take the 590 for HD use.

As I said, I still enjoy my Winchester shotguns, still use them, and have no problem with the Winchester as a field gun. Won't personally trust the Winchester design for HD use anymore though.

So, no offense taken. Discount it as a freak incident if you like.

As to your 2nd question, Murphy's Law can explain a lot about mechanical failures.

[kraigster414]

Utaherrn, thank you. Much more in the way of information/perspective/clarification in your last post and I appreciate it. I think others do too.

[hawken50]

whe i got home this morning i dissected my 20 ga. 1300 Ranger. i think i have the pieces your talking about but there is no screw. there is a tab coming off the plate that fits into a bevil at the rear of the firing pin. my gun is only a year old. did Winchester change the design to fix this problem?

[rugerdude]

All I will say is that I love the 590. Absolutely 100% reliable, great capacity and for me it is a better skeet gun than anything else I have tried (the most expensive was a beretta over/under) It just points so naturally. I say get the 590.

[jonathon]

The 1200 was used by the Military during Vietnam, and for a shotgun had good success.

I like mine, it'll handle magnums without a problem... the stock rubber butt pad works good. That, and I know how to use it.

No expierence with the mossbergs.

[utaherrn]

Maybe they've changed the design on the Winchester. Haven't seen a really recent Winchester shotty up close, so maybe they have.
That would be a plus.

[rugerdude]

I always thought that they used ithica(sp?) shotguns in vietnam (I'm not saying that you are wrong, I just don't know)

[Sturmgewehr-58]

Winchester uses a single screw to attach a plate under the bolt that the action bars lock into as well as hold the firing pin and spring in place. With enough buckshot or slugs, this screw will shear off sooner or later, locking up the gun.

You got me nervous after reading this, so I checked out my 1300 Defender that I bought in 1999. The plate you are refering to is called the slide arm bridge, and it's not held in place by a screw.

For something that "will shear off sooner or later, locking up the gun", I found it to be conspicuously absent.

If Winchester did change the design, it would have to have been before 1999. I don't own a Mossberg 590 (I came close, but chose the Winchester instead) so I can't comment on which is better, but my 1300 has never given me any problems.

[utaherrn]

Sounds like they've changed the design then, that's good. My 1300 was made before '99. Like I said in my original post, that was my only issue with the Winchester.

Next time I'll check what changes have been made to a model before I spout off and look like an idiot. It happens often enough.

So for clarification........if you have an older Winchester, it may or may not have a screw......

how's that? am I allowed to sit at the grown-up table to eat dinner or do I have to sit at the card table with the little kids?

[rugerdude]

Only if you can act like a big boy and finish all your vegetables.

[Sturmgewehr-58]

Hmm, I would have sent him to bed early without dinner.

[jonathon]

Utaherrn, I don't think I have that problem with mine.. it was made somewhere around '81.

So far I've put several hundred rounds of full power buckshot through it.. no slugs yet. Add in the 10 boxes of light target stuffs(for trap), and yeah, not super ammounts of shooting, but enough..

[utaherrn]

it depends upon the vegetable.

And my motto is "you're only young once, but you can be immature forever" so no chance of acting like a big boy.

so maybe going to bed early without supper is preferable.

[kraigster414]

Utaherrn, if you were here, you'd hear me singin': "bad boys, bad boys, whatcheegonna do, whatcheegonna do when they come for youuuuuu.....

Hit the dirt and do 20!

You're not out of the woods yet. 100 times on the blackboard: "I will check my facts first, I will check my facts first...."

Hey, been there done that. I forgive you but I'm much nicer than the rest of these guys.

[JR Guns]

I've heard good things about the Win 1300, but don't own one.....

I've had very good performance from my Mossberg.

JR