16g HD loads, over-penetration issues

Coronach · August 11, 2002, 09:44 PM

Scads of 411 for 12g loads for apartment use...but little for 16g. The scenario is an apartment with some drywall and some plaster/lathe construction, ranges in question being very short (the barricade position would be within 6' of the door to the room). What size shot would the cognoscenti recommend?

Thanks,
Mike

Dave R · August 11, 2002, 11:18 PM

For under 10 yards, birdshot would be fine. It will basically be hitting as a solid block (almost) at that distance. And the small pellets will have less tendency to over-penetrate than buckshot would.

Shot size 6, maybe 7.5 would do fine.

It'll likely penetrate drywall at 10 yards, but not a whole lot farther than that.

If you're curious, pick up some drywall, head out to the boonies and experiment.

And let us know what you find.

Coronach · August 12, 2002, 09:51 AM

Cool. That was kinda what I expected, I just wanted to know how low I could go.

Thanks,
Mike

dfaugh · August 12, 2002, 03:26 PM

at short range, almost anything that you can shoot from a shotgun, will make a mess of a BG...I've tried #7 birdshot..at 40-50 ft it (mostly) stops in a sheet of 3/4" plywood...would think a couple layers of drywall would be similar

Coronach · August 12, 2002, 05:27 PM

When I end up getting a reloading rig, I'm gonna brew up a few Dave McC breath-mint loads, just to see what they do...

Mike

KSFreeman · August 12, 2002, 08:12 PM

Whatever you decide, be sure and test it. Good to know contractors.

Mannlicher · August 12, 2002, 09:59 PM

If the load from any shotgun is forceful enough to terminate the bad guy, it is most likely energetic enough to penetrate a wall as well, if hit at the same distance.

Don't forget, that the pellets do not care what gauge shotgun they come from. 00 Buck shot is the same size, regardless of the gauge gun. So long as velocity remains the same, each pellet will have the same energy from a 16, as it would from a 12.

Most folks dont have rooms 40 or 50 feet across, so you pretty much have to figure any shotgun blast inside a house is going to penetrate a wall........if you miss.

DMK · August 13, 2002, 09:22 PM

Quote:

If the load from any shotgun is forceful enough to terminate the bad guy, it is most likely energetic enough to penetrate a wall as well, if hit at the same distance.

I wouldn't want to bet my life of a load that couldn't penetrate drywall. Heck, I could throw a rock that could penetrate dry wall.

I'd think you'd be better off finding a load that patterns tight rather than one that won't penetrate building materials (or leather jackets perhaps?).

David Wile · August 13, 2002, 09:40 PM

Hey folks,

In my opinion, forget drywall and use 12 No. 1 buck in a 2 3/4 inch 16 guage shell. Better yet, go for 16 No. 1 buck in a 2 3/4 inch 12 guage shell. Better yet, maybe a bunch of Double O buck in a 10 guage shell. Well, you get my point.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

Al Thompson · August 13, 2002, 09:57 PM

Given yyour parameters - inside an apartment and ultra close range, most any load will do. I tend towards the heavier birdshot my self.

Several years ago, the South Carolina prison system suffered some guard casualties when the inmates figured out that the issue matteresses would stop the # 8 loads that the guards used. A buddy was the training officer and they tested various loads to counter this tactic. Their threshhold was # 5 shot. It would penetrate the 6 inch thick matteresses.

If you shoot in three carddinal directions from my house with buckshot, it would be reckless as the homes in my hood are not capable of stopping errant buckshot. My choice of first up loads is # 2 birdshot from a hoarded box.

You have to have a good idea of what's beyond your target or engagement area and plan accordingly.

August 11, 2002, 09:44 PM	#1
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	16g HD loads, over-penetration issues Scads of 411 for 12g loads for apartment use...but little for 16g. The scenario is an apartment with some drywall and some plaster/lathe construction, ranges in question being very short (the barricade position would be within 6' of the door to the room). What size shot would the cognoscenti recommend? Thanks, Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

August 11, 2002, 11:18 PM	#2
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	For under 10 yards, birdshot would be fine. It will basically be hitting as a solid block (almost) at that distance. And the small pellets will have less tendency to over-penetrate than buckshot would. Shot size 6, maybe 7.5 would do fine. It'll likely penetrate drywall at 10 yards, but not a whole lot farther than that. If you're curious, pick up some drywall, head out to the boonies and experiment. And let us know what you find. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

August 12, 2002, 09:51 AM	#3
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Cool. That was kinda what I expected, I just wanted to know how low I could go. Thanks, Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

August 12, 2002, 03:26 PM	#4
dfaugh Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,715	at short range, almost anything that you can shoot from a shotgun, will make a mess of a BG...I've tried #7 birdshot..at 40-50 ft it (mostly) stops in a sheet of 3/4" plywood...would think a couple layers of drywall would be similar __________________ "If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules" "No one has the answer, but one thing is true. You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you. You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide, you've got to go in after it, and never be denied. Time is running out...Let's roll. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love. We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth. Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."

August 12, 2002, 05:27 PM	#5
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	When I end up getting a reloading rig, I'm gonna brew up a few Dave McC breath-mint loads, just to see what they do... Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

August 12, 2002, 08:12 PM	#6
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Whatever you decide, be sure and test it. Good to know contractors. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

August 12, 2002, 09:59 PM	#7
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,209	If the load from any shotgun is forceful enough to terminate the bad guy, it is most likely energetic enough to penetrate a wall as well, if hit at the same distance. Don't forget, that the pellets do not care what gauge shotgun they come from. 00 Buck shot is the same size, regardless of the gauge gun. So long as velocity remains the same, each pellet will have the same energy from a 16, as it would from a 12. Most folks dont have rooms 40 or 50 feet across, so you pretty much have to figure any shotgun blast inside a house is going to penetrate a wall........if you miss. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

August 13, 2002, 09:40 PM	#9
David Wile Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Posts: 585	Hey folks, In my opinion, forget drywall and use 12 No. 1 buck in a 2 3/4 inch 16 guage shell. Better yet, go for 16 No. 1 buck in a 2 3/4 inch 12 guage shell. Better yet, maybe a bunch of Double O buck in a 10 guage shell. Well, you get my point. Best wishes, Dave Wile

August 13, 2002, 09:57 PM	#10
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Given yyour parameters - inside an apartment and ultra close range, most any load will do. I tend towards the heavier birdshot my self. Several years ago, the South Carolina prison system suffered some guard casualties when the inmates figured out that the issue matteresses would stop the # 8 loads that the guards used. A buddy was the training officer and they tested various loads to counter this tactic. Their threshhold was # 5 shot. It would penetrate the 6 inch thick matteresses. If you shoot in three carddinal directions from my house with buckshot, it would be reckless as the homes in my hood are not capable of stopping errant buckshot. My choice of first up loads is # 2 birdshot from a hoarded box. You have to have a good idea of what's beyond your target or engagement area and plan accordingly. __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/