A devious plan to corrupt innocent children

cornered rat · March 2, 1999, 05:08 PM

Among the people Q and I have taken shooting is a family of immigrants from the USSR, friends of my parents. The kids are 10 and 13 years old now. They have a BB gun, with which the younger kid had been less than safe. That got him and his sister safety training and a couple of lessons with a .22 and Makarov.

Now, I had this neat plan...when finances permit, get them a used .22 rifle (I see them used for about $60). Talk to the parent about supporting them by providing regular range trips (the parents are pro-rkba, just not very active). Stipulate that, when the first one is ready to leave home, they compete at range and target of their choice. Winner gets to own the rifle.

THoughts, suggestions?

Rob Pincus · March 2, 1999, 06:01 PM

Great idea, reminds me of a story:

I was at a party a few years ago and bumped into a Senator and his family. TN had jsut changed its CCW laws and the conversation turned to this topic. After a few moments the senator's wife mentioned that her father had jsut passed away and left several guns to "the kids" (three of them). They were ages 6-11 and were apparently spending a great deal of time arguing over which kid got which gun.

I suggested that they head to a range and shoot the dickens out of the guns and then see if the children have particular favorites.. if there was still a problem, I suggested that, since the guns should really be taken care of by the adults idea, they just retain posesion of th guns as a group, until sucha time when the children were old enough and experienced enough for some type of competition for the prize guns. I had directed the covnerstation at the two of the children that were there, trying to get them excited about the idea. I knew they would harrass their dad into going to the range whether he was a senator or not...

. I also went over the importance of realizing that the guns were not toys, etc....

The Senator liked the idea and asked me for a good place to shoot... I never did any follow up, but I got a letter from his office in Washington a few weeks later thanking me for taking the time to discuss gun safety with the kids and helping them resolve the distribution problem.

------------------
-Essayons

**Rich Lucibella** · March 2, 1999, 11:03 PM

Interesting in that my first reaaction is to congratulate you both on being such cagey devils. Then I realized that what you did was an appropriate and valuable service to the people involved.

When we start thinking of such works as "sneaky" we have to wonder if we've fallen prey to the sound bites of the PC crowd. Walk tall...you've both done a good thing.
Rich

pat · March 3, 1999, 02:23 AM

also get them interested in target shooting. this is an easy sell to parents that may not like hunting. go to the web site www.odcmp.com/ and you will find all kinds of support and even good cheap target .22's

Bill F · March 3, 1999, 02:50 AM

Cornered rat,
Just keep doing what your doing. I would like to take time out to thank you as a fellow Minnesotan for your efforts to keep our Second Amendment Rights.
On a lighter note, I was wondering how Q liked the Govs. State of the State address.

cornered rat · March 3, 1999, 08:24 AM

Q does not like the governor at all, and skipped his address. BTW, do your sources match my sources on the demise of CCW initiative this year?

Bill F · March 3, 1999, 05:17 PM

Cornered rat,

If our State ever gets CCW, I would be so shocked I would probably have a heart attack and die. Most of the people I know think as long as there hunting rifle or shotgun are safe, who cares about CCW.
MORONS!

cornered rat · March 3, 1999, 05:31 PM

Michelle's father (who lives in Grand Rapids) was surprised to find out that MN is not a shall-issue state...up North they are de facto shall-issue.

Bill F · March 3, 1999, 06:48 PM

Cornered rat,

I can believe they carry up there. I went hunting with a buddy of mine from Eveleth. We went to his relatives and friends houses (about 20 in total), and everyone of them had some type of gun. I also seen a lot of drinking. I wouldn’t want to be the one to have to round up the guns from up there.

[This message has been edited by Bill F (edited March 03, 1999).]

cornered rat · March 5, 1999, 10:49 AM

<h2>Good news</h2>
Talked to the father of those two kids last night. He's all for getting them a .22 rifle...will get them range time and get his own skills up. He also disagreed with my idea of paying for the rifle...he offered to take care of financial end (which he can afford). I am wondering...if I find a small inexpensive .22 that is a single-shot...any reasons to avoid it infavor of repeater model? I'd rather kids were not frustrated by constant re-loading, also not sure how good the single-shots are.

Bill F · March 5, 1999, 01:59 PM

Hey rat,
Great job!
I don’t know how inexpensive your talking about, but I just picked up a Ruger 10k/22 with 10 shot magazine for $144 at Fleetfarm in Oakdale. An excellent first gun for a child. I thought I seen a used Ruger at the gun shop the last time I was there. I don’t know what they were charging, but I’m sure you can find a deal somewhere.

cornered rat · March 5, 1999, 02:13 PM

I spend $50 on the gun iwth one 7-rd magazine. Spent $22 more on two extra magazines, just to make sure they don't end up with worn out mags and a mostly useless gun. I don't know if they will get this rifle or something else, I plan to look around this week.

I just sold the 10/22 that I owned for less than a month...didn't like it much. Not sure why, besides open sights. I could have bought aperture sight for it for $60 or an entire rifle for $50...easy choice. I also prefer bolt action because they are easier to clean and can use cheapo promotional ammo ($10/brick vs. $15 brick for plated autoloader fodder). Lastly, I think these are safer for kids to use than an autoloader that doesn't have a loaded chamber indicator or automatic bolt-open catch.

If you know any teenagers, teach them to shoot. The two I mentioned are getting their rifle bundled with ammo, cleaning kit and a lecture on the meaning of Hanukka, Fourth of July and being an American.

I did some arguing on this topic at soc.culture.jewish, with minimal success. Add your own 2c worth, if you have time and energy.

------------------
Even when the fight is lost, take some with you.
http://ddb.com/RKBA

DC · March 6, 1999, 12:47 AM

CR..

Absolutely nothing wrong with a single-shot. That was my first firearm as a kid. Teaches patience and hones your shooting eye. You don't waste a shot....you only get that one. Growing up on a farm I had plenty of ground squirrels and jacks to practice on. I'm an ok pistol shooter but hell on wheels with a long gun and I owe it to that ss .22

cornered rat · March 6, 1999, 12:53 AM

The only part that bugged me about the ss .22 was how hard it was for my fingers to reach in and load it. And the ss and bolt .22s are expensive! $125 at least, mostly around $150.

Here's a thought...for $110-130 I can get a single-action H&R or Savage revolver in very good shape. Do you think those work as learning tools (and do they require loading only 5 rounds out of 6?) Does anyone have a good manual on use of single-action .22 revolvers?

cornered rat · March 6, 1999, 04:51 PM

Aaah...a happy day is today. Went to the range...and found that I can shoot! With friends' .44 and .45acp revolvers, I would tear a single hole at 7'...and with friend's MP40 would keep a whole magazine on a palm-sized area.

Shot the Ruger Mk2...it works for teaching, no warm fuzzies about it. But the Marlin 80...meow! It is accurate enough, handles well and the ghost right imrpov is great...finally can shoot 2" groups at 75' offhand, 1" with support. Lovely gun...will keep it for myself...kids will have to get something else. And it was all of $50, butt-ugly. Went through some 650 .22 rounds today.

------------------
Even when the fight is lost, take some with you.
http://ddb.com/RKBA

bear · March 8, 1999, 06:28 PM

Cornered Rat, did you ever get the final word on CCW?? Seems I find more Minnesotians
on the list all the time, Bill, you from the metro area too? may have to all get together
some day and shoot up a few rounds.
CR when you say Q are you refering to yourself or ?, like to ask you about you opinion of Jesse but I'll send you a e-mail, I'm sure the list isn't to interested.

Dennis · March 8, 1999, 07:19 PM

CR,
If you buy a .22 revolver, I'd recommend you have the right to return it. I just got rid of two that "spit" between the cylinder and forcing cone. One of them so bad it could draw blood!

I don't know if they were out of time, had excessive space between the cylinder and barrel or what.... but please check.

Dennis Glover · March 8, 1999, 08:55 PM

Hey great job. Anyone that can change minds and get kids started in the right direction using firearms the rightway is high on my list of DO GOODERS. Keep being devious.

[This message has been edited by Dennis Glover (edited March 08, 1999).]

cornered rat · March 8, 1999, 09:48 PM

<h2>Questions, and more questions?</h2>
How can I check a single-action revolver in the store? Or, do I have to test-fire it? The two revolvers in question are old Savages, 4" barrels.

Also, I just found a mint pre-68 Marlin 80 at another store. They want $140 for it. I would get it if I can find an aperture sight for it (it is already tapped)...any advice on where I can get the sight?

<h2>Nice!</h2>
Marlin still carries the aperture sights...$7.50 ea. compared to others that a local store has which, though possibly superior, cost $50-70 and require gunsmithing to fit. I got four spare mags at $10 ea, so that I'd have three total and the kids have three. Their rifle is already roughly zero'd, and locals tore thinks they may have an aperture inset for it.

I might become a compulsive buyer of Model 80 Marlins

[This message has been edited by cornered rat (edited March 09, 1999).]

cornered rat · March 9, 1999, 03:56 PM

The other Marlin 80 is missing a small part that lookslike in inverted feeding raps (keeps bullets pointed correctly)...got that ordered from Marlin for $1.30...the rifle has not been made since late 60s and they still have parts!

Found out the two kids are 14 and 17, not 10 and 13 anymore...where'd the time go? Will be taking them to the range sometime later this week.

Bill F · March 10, 1999, 03:04 AM

Bear,

Yes, I'm from the NE metro area. Maplewood to be exact.

bear · March 11, 1999, 06:05 PM

Bill F, what kind of shooting do you do?
may just want to e-mail me, [email protected] thought the Gov's speech wasn't so bad, have heard alot worse and I like a lot of his idea's, even if he is a little flakey

Bill F · March 17, 1999, 02:13 AM

Bear,

Sorry for the slow reply. I had emergency spinal surgery, so I won’t be doing much shooting for awhile.

I think I’m getting an itchy trigger finger already.
I normally shoot a Glock M17, but I will shoot any thing that has a bullet come out the other end.
As far as the Gov. goes, I am waiting to see if he will do something about CCW in this State. It was part of his platform just before the election. Now that he has his, he doesn’t seem to care about the rest of us.

[This message has been edited by Bill F (edited March 17, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Bill F (edited March 23, 1999).]

March 2, 1999, 05:08 PM	#1
cornered rat Junior member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Minnesota Posts: 920	Among the people Q and I have taken shooting is a family of immigrants from the USSR, friends of my parents. The kids are 10 and 13 years old now. They have a BB gun, with which the younger kid had been less than safe. That got him and his sister safety training and a couple of lessons with a .22 and Makarov. Now, I had this neat plan...when finances permit, get them a used .22 rifle (I see them used for about $60). Talk to the parent about supporting them by providing regular range trips (the parents are pro-rkba, just not very active). Stipulate that, when the first one is ready to leave home, they compete at range and target of their choice. Winner gets to own the rifle. THoughts, suggestions?

March 2, 1999, 06:01 PM	#2
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	Great idea, reminds me of a story: I was at a party a few years ago and bumped into a Senator and his family. TN had jsut changed its CCW laws and the conversation turned to this topic. After a few moments the senator's wife mentioned that her father had jsut passed away and left several guns to "the kids" (three of them). They were ages 6-11 and were apparently spending a great deal of time arguing over which kid got which gun. I suggested that they head to a range and shoot the dickens out of the guns and then see if the children have particular favorites.. if there was still a problem, I suggested that, since the guns should really be taken care of by the adults idea, they just retain posesion of th guns as a group, until sucha time when the children were old enough and experienced enough for some type of competition for the prize guns. I had directed the covnerstation at the two of the children that were there, trying to get them excited about the idea. I knew they would harrass their dad into going to the range whether he was a senator or not... . I also went over the importance of realizing that the guns were not toys, etc.... The Senator liked the idea and asked me for a good place to shoot... I never did any follow up, but I got a letter from his office in Washington a few weeks later thanking me for taking the time to discuss gun safety with the kids and helping them resolve the distribution problem. ------------------ *-Essayons*

March 2, 1999, 11:03 PM	#3
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Interesting in that my first reaaction is to congratulate you both on being such cagey devils. Then I realized that what you did was an appropriate and valuable service to the people involved. When we start thinking of such works as "sneaky" we have to wonder if we've fallen prey to the sound bites of the PC crowd. Walk tall...you've both done a good thing. Rich

March 3, 1999, 02:23 AM	#4
pat Member Join Date: December 24, 1998 Location: east palistine ohio usa Posts: 49	also get them interested in target shooting. this is an easy sell to parents that may not like hunting. go to the web site www.odcmp.com/ and you will find all kinds of support and even good cheap target .22's

March 3, 1999, 02:50 AM	#5
Bill F Member Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: St. Paul MN Posts: 46	Cornered rat, Just keep doing what your doing. I would like to take time out to thank you as a fellow Minnesotan for your efforts to keep our Second Amendment Rights. On a lighter note, I was wondering how Q liked the Govs. State of the State address.

March 3, 1999, 08:24 AM	#6
cornered rat Junior member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Minnesota Posts: 920	Q does not like the governor at all, and skipped his address. BTW, do your sources match my sources on the demise of CCW initiative this year?

March 3, 1999, 05:17 PM	#7
Bill F Member Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: St. Paul MN Posts: 46	Cornered rat, If our State ever gets CCW, I would be so shocked I would probably have a heart attack and die. Most of the people I know think as long as there hunting rifle or shotgun are safe, who cares about CCW. MORONS!

March 3, 1999, 05:31 PM	#8
cornered rat Junior member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Minnesota Posts: 920	Michelle's father (who lives in Grand Rapids) was surprised to find out that MN is not a shall-issue state...up North they are de facto shall-issue.

March 3, 1999, 06:48 PM	#9
Bill F Member Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: St. Paul MN Posts: 46	Cornered rat, I can believe they carry up there. I went hunting with a buddy of mine from Eveleth. We went to his relatives and friends houses (about 20 in total), and everyone of them had some type of gun. I also seen a lot of drinking. I wouldn’t want to be the one to have to round up the guns from up there. [This message has been edited by Bill F (edited March 03, 1999).]

March 5, 1999, 10:49 AM	#10
cornered rat Junior member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Minnesota Posts: 920	<h2>Good news</h2> Talked to the father of those two kids last night. He's all for getting them a .22 rifle...will get them range time and get his own skills up. He also disagreed with my idea of paying for the rifle...he offered to take care of financial end (which he can afford). I am wondering...if I find a small inexpensive .22 that is a single-shot...any reasons to avoid it infavor of repeater model? I'd rather kids were not frustrated by constant re-loading, also not sure how good the single-shots are.

March 5, 1999, 01:59 PM	#11
Bill F Member Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: St. Paul MN Posts: 46	Hey rat, Great job! I don’t know how inexpensive your talking about, but I just picked up a Ruger 10k/22 with 10 shot magazine for $144 at Fleetfarm in Oakdale. An excellent first gun for a child. I thought I seen a used Ruger at the gun shop the last time I was there. I don’t know what they were charging, but I’m sure you can find a deal somewhere.

March 5, 1999, 02:13 PM	#12
cornered rat Junior member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Minnesota Posts: 920	I spend $50 on the gun iwth one 7-rd magazine. Spent $22 more on two extra magazines, just to make sure they don't end up with worn out mags and a mostly useless gun. I don't know if they will get this rifle or something else, I plan to look around this week. I just sold the 10/22 that I owned for less than a month...didn't like it much. Not sure why, besides open sights. I could have bought aperture sight for it for $60 or an entire rifle for $50...easy choice. I also prefer bolt action because they are easier to clean and can use cheapo promotional ammo ($10/brick vs. $15 brick for plated autoloader fodder). Lastly, I think these are safer for kids to use than an autoloader that doesn't have a loaded chamber indicator or automatic bolt-open catch. If you know any teenagers, teach them to shoot. The two I mentioned are getting their rifle bundled with ammo, cleaning kit and a lecture on the meaning of Hanukka, Fourth of July and being an American. I did some arguing on this topic at soc.culture.jewish, with minimal success. Add your own 2c worth, if you have time and energy. ------------------ Even when the fight is lost, take some with you. http://ddb.com/RKBA

March 6, 1999, 12:47 AM	#13
DC Moderator Emeritus Join Date: September 30, 1998 Location: Calif Posts: 4,229	CR.. Absolutely nothing wrong with a single-shot. That was my first firearm as a kid. Teaches patience and hones your shooting eye. You don't waste a shot....you only get that one. Growing up on a farm I had plenty of ground squirrels and jacks to practice on. I'm an ok pistol shooter but hell on wheels with a long gun and I owe it to that ss .22

March 6, 1999, 12:53 AM	#14
cornered rat Junior member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Minnesota Posts: 920	The only part that bugged me about the ss .22 was how hard it was for my fingers to reach in and load it. And the ss and bolt .22s are expensive! $125 at least, mostly around $150. Here's a thought...for $110-130 I can get a single-action H&R or Savage revolver in very good shape. Do you think those work as learning tools (and do they require loading only 5 rounds out of 6?) Does anyone have a good manual on use of single-action .22 revolvers?

March 6, 1999, 04:51 PM	#15
cornered rat Junior member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Minnesota Posts: 920	Aaah...a happy day is today. Went to the range...and found that I can shoot! With friends' .44 and .45acp revolvers, I would tear a single hole at 7'...and with friend's MP40 would keep a whole magazine on a palm-sized area. Shot the Ruger Mk2...it works for teaching, no warm fuzzies about it. But the Marlin 80...meow! It is accurate enough, handles well and the ghost right imrpov is great...finally can shoot 2" groups at 75' offhand, 1" with support. Lovely gun...will keep it for myself...kids will have to get something else. And it was all of $50, butt-ugly. Went through some 650 .22 rounds today. ------------------ Even when the fight is lost, take some with you. http://ddb.com/RKBA

March 8, 1999, 06:28 PM	#16
bear Member Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Mpls, Minn Posts: 56	Cornered Rat, did you ever get the final word on CCW?? Seems I find more Minnesotians on the list all the time, Bill, you from the metro area too? may have to all get together some day and shoot up a few rounds. CR when you say Q are you refering to yourself or ?, like to ask you about you opinion of Jesse but I'll send you a e-mail, I'm sure the list isn't to interested.

March 8, 1999, 07:19 PM	#17
Dennis Staff Emeritus Join Date: November 23, 1998 Location: a small forest in Texas Posts: 7,079	CR, If you buy a .22 revolver, I'd recommend you have the right to return it. I just got rid of two that "spit" between the cylinder and forcing cone. One of them so bad it could draw blood! I don't know if they were out of time, had excessive space between the cylinder and barrel or what.... but please check.

March 8, 1999, 08:55 PM	#18
Dennis Glover Member Join Date: January 27, 1999 Location: Tullahoma,Tn. 37388 Posts: 36	Hey great job. Anyone that can change minds and get kids started in the right direction using firearms the rightway is high on my list of DO GOODERS. Keep being devious. [This message has been edited by Dennis Glover (edited March 08, 1999).]

March 8, 1999, 09:48 PM	#19
cornered rat Junior member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Minnesota Posts: 920	<h2>Questions, and more questions?</h2> How can I check a single-action revolver in the store? Or, do I have to test-fire it? The two revolvers in question are old Savages, 4" barrels. Also, I just found a mint pre-68 Marlin 80 at another store. They want $140 for it. I would get it if I can find an aperture sight for it (it is already tapped)...any advice on where I can get the sight? <h2>Nice!</h2> Marlin still carries the aperture sights...$7.50 ea. compared to others that a local store has which, though possibly superior, cost $50-70 and require gunsmithing to fit. I got four spare mags at $10 ea, so that I'd have three total and the kids have three. Their rifle is already roughly zero'd, and locals tore thinks they may have an aperture inset for it. I might become a compulsive buyer of Model 80 Marlins [This message has been edited by cornered rat (edited March 09, 1999).]

March 9, 1999, 03:56 PM	#20
cornered rat Junior member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Minnesota Posts: 920	The other Marlin 80 is missing a small part that lookslike in inverted feeding raps (keeps bullets pointed correctly)...got that ordered from Marlin for $1.30...the rifle has not been made since late 60s and they still have parts! Found out the two kids are 14 and 17, not 10 and 13 anymore...where'd the time go? Will be taking them to the range sometime later this week.

March 10, 1999, 03:04 AM	#21
Bill F Member Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: St. Paul MN Posts: 46	Bear, Yes, I'm from the NE metro area. Maplewood to be exact.

March 11, 1999, 06:05 PM	#22
bear Member Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Mpls, Minn Posts: 56	Bill F, what kind of shooting do you do? may just want to e-mail me, [email protected] thought the Gov's speech wasn't so bad, have heard alot worse and I like a lot of his idea's, even if he is a little flakey

March 17, 1999, 02:13 AM	#23
Bill F Member Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: St. Paul MN Posts: 46	Bear, Sorry for the slow reply. I had emergency spinal surgery, so I won’t be doing much shooting for awhile. I think I’m getting an itchy trigger finger already. I normally shoot a Glock M17, but I will shoot any thing that has a bullet come out the other end. As far as the Gov. goes, I am waiting to see if he will do something about CCW in this State. It was part of his platform just before the election. Now that he has his, he doesn’t seem to care about the rest of us. [This message has been edited by Bill F (edited March 17, 1999).] [This message has been edited by Bill F (edited March 23, 1999).]