Anatomy question

Shotgun364 · May 13, 2002, 01:51 AM

Im not a hunter but I have always wondered were exactly would you place a shot when trying to stop cold a large bear? Does anyone know of a site that covers animal anatomies? Thanks.

UK2TX · May 13, 2002, 09:32 AM

Hello Shotgun364,

The National Bowhunters Education Foundation have a shot placement guide for bear http://www.nbef.org/FEATURES1.CFM?featureid=15.

Regards,

UK2TX

Saeed · May 13, 2002, 11:08 AM

Shotgun364,

I have never shot a bear, but have shot several hundred African big game animals.

The only sure way of stopping a charge in its track is by hitting either the head or the spine.

Anywhere else might or - most likely might not do so.

Shotgun364 · May 13, 2002, 12:20 PM

Thanks.

labgrade · May 13, 2002, 01:54 PM

Think Keith Rogan of Bear Mauling fame has recommended shooting a charging bear straight through the nose. Higher & it can "skip" off the slanted head. Through the nose apparently should take out teh spinal column with minial needed penetration.

As I remember anyway. I've never hunted bear & certainly don't want to have to stop a charger (I know, take away his credit card

) ....

Oh yeah, & shoot 'im with something big & heavy.

dZ · May 14, 2002, 11:10 AM

heres an idea of the task:

H&H,hunter · May 16, 2002, 01:38 PM

Having killed several dozen bear I'd have to agree with all of the posts except one. The last one with the picture of the bear standing up and the proper angle to shoot it while it is doing so is flawed in that bears do not stand to attack ever except on TV and movies of course. Head shots will stop them as will spine shots as will a double shoulder shot. As I've said before though in a charge situation with a bear they generally don't line up at 60 yds announce that the are going to charge and then proceed. The more likley scenario is getting hit from close range in tight cover or at night you'll never see it coming and if you get a shot off you may or may not put it in the right place. God willing you've even got time to aim.
In my brothers case he was hit while sleeping in a bag at night it was over before he was even fully awake and by the time he got his gun out he had so much blood in his eyes that he couldn't see a darn and being people and horses with him in camp he decided to holler instead of shoot. Generally if you have an encounter with a bear that is circling you and chuffing anf making a scene he's not going to attack he's just trying to get you away from him. But in my case anyway he's a dead bear all the same that's when you'll have time to aim very carefully and vacate his head of any bad thoughts.

labgrade · May 16, 2002, 01:57 PM

You bring up a great point, H&H.

Most everything I've ever read (being an uninitiate of the "shoot an attcking bear" club) is that a (daylight) bear can run at 35 MPH & will do so at 10 yards, or so (do the math), from "under cover," as you have surprised 'im.

Many time one won't even have the chance to point a firearm (holstered handguns seem less likely to be an advantage here) in the thick(er) brush where one may have an encounter (AK-stuff especially).

Many other areas of encounter as I've heard which may present a different scenario of firearm employment, but if wondering about how to stop a charging bear, I'd want to have a big-bore handy, at post arms (at the least) & be ready for a one-shot break-it-down now! (& hopefully) stop - kill it later, but stop it now = break it!

As with hunting the bigger pigs in tight quarters, I don't care if I kill it ever, I only want to break it enough so it can't get at me.

Killin's for later .....

(call me a wimp ... )

spectr17 · June 15, 2002, 04:45 AM

Here's a pic I've done up for hog shooting. There is still some debate on the spine curving lower at the neck than what is shown here in this pic.

Art Eatman · June 15, 2002, 11:26 AM

Thanx, Spectr17.

Folks, note that the heart is much lower in the chest than is usually thought.

That's why so many (with respect to this picture) will shoot for a spot a bit higher than the heart and a bit to the right. Can damage the heart; ruptures the lungs which causes a lot of bleeding; and can break the foreleg(s).

It's also why using "enough gun" is better than trying to make do with a marginal cartridge. An ethical kill demands massive trauma, rapid blood loss (I just love the word "exsanguination"

) and a blood trail to follow if necessary.

Art

Zorro · June 16, 2002, 12:24 AM

On ANYTHING that is charging at you SHOOT FOR THE NOSE!

Except Elephant! A deviant mammal design.

H&H,hunter · June 18, 2002, 04:22 PM

Great job on the hog!
I just showed it to my wife Dr. H&Hhuntress (DVM)and she thinks you did a great job as well. As you mentioned the spine is incorrectly placed it should go at a slight down angle from the head to the middle of shoulder blades then at a slight up angle untill the it meets the saccrum at the pubis bone so the spine sits in the the pelvic girdle not above it as depicted.
The only reason that I bring this up is that most people tend to shoot a little high on both hogs and bears when making a shoulder/spine shot. If you want to drop a hog or a bear on the spot, aim about half way up the shoulder from the bottom of the brisket. That'll break both shoulders lungs and spine. And that spells Grave Yard Dead. Works great on bears as well as they are nearly anatomically identical to a hog as far as skelatal structure.

May 13, 2002, 01:51 AM	#1
Shotgun364 Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2002 Location: NEW YORK CITY Posts: 141	Anatomy question Im not a hunter but I have always wondered were exactly would you place a shot when trying to stop cold a large bear? Does anyone know of a site that covers animal anatomies? Thanks. __________________ Shotgun364 is now NIGHTWATCH

May 13, 2002, 11:08 AM	#3
Saeed Junior Member Join Date: April 21, 2000 Location: Dubai. U.A.E. Posts: 7	Shotgun364, I have never shot a bear, but have shot several hundred African big game animals. The only sure way of stopping a charge in its track is by hitting either the head or the spine. Anywhere else might or - most likely might not do so. __________________ <A HREF="http://www.accuratreloading.com [email protected]" TARGET=_blank>www.accuratreloading.com [email protected]</A>

May 13, 2002, 12:20 PM	#4
Shotgun364 Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2002 Location: NEW YORK CITY Posts: 141	Thanks. __________________ Shotgun364 is now NIGHTWATCH

June 15, 2002, 04:45 AM	#9
spectr17 Junior Member Join Date: May 27, 2002 Location: Californy via Mizzurah Posts: 7	Here's a pic I've done up for hog shooting. There is still some debate on the spine curving lower at the neck than what is shown here in this pic. __________________ ~spectr17 Jesse's Hunting Page (JHP)

June 18, 2002, 04:22 PM	#12
H&H,hunter Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 504	Great job on the hog! I just showed it to my wife Dr. H&Hhuntress (DVM)and she thinks you did a great job as well. As you mentioned the spine is incorrectly placed it should go at a slight down angle from the head to the middle of shoulder blades then at a slight up angle untill the it meets the saccrum at the pubis bone so the spine sits in the the pelvic girdle not above it as depicted. The only reason that I bring this up is that most people tend to shoot a little high on both hogs and bears when making a shoulder/spine shot. If you want to drop a hog or a bear on the spot, aim about half way up the shoulder from the bottom of the brisket. That'll break both shoulders lungs and spine. And that spells Grave Yard Dead. Works great on bears as well as they are nearly anatomically identical to a hog as far as skelatal structure. __________________ Velocity is thrilling, But diameter does the real killing.

May 13, 2002, 09:32 AM	#2
UK2TX Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Austin,TX Posts: 274	Hello Shotgun364, The National Bowhunters Education Foundation have a shot placement guide for bear http://www.nbef.org/FEATURES1.CFM?featureid=15. Regards, UK2TX

May 13, 2002, 01:54 PM	#5
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Think Keith Rogan of Bear Mauling fame has recommended shooting a charging bear straight through the nose. Higher & it can "skip" off the slanted head. Through the nose apparently should take out teh spinal column with minial needed penetration. As I remember anyway. I've never hunted bear & certainly don't want to have to stop a charger (I know, take away his credit card ) .... Oh yeah, & shoot 'im with something big & heavy.

May 16, 2002, 01:38 PM	#7
H&H,hunter Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 504	Having killed several dozen bear I'd have to agree with all of the posts except one. The last one with the picture of the bear standing up and the proper angle to shoot it while it is doing so is flawed in that bears do not stand to attack ever except on TV and movies of course. Head shots will stop them as will spine shots as will a double shoulder shot. As I've said before though in a charge situation with a bear they generally don't line up at 60 yds announce that the are going to charge and then proceed. The more likley scenario is getting hit from close range in tight cover or at night you'll never see it coming and if you get a shot off you may or may not put it in the right place. God willing you've even got time to aim. In my brothers case he was hit while sleeping in a bag at night it was over before he was even fully awake and by the time he got his gun out he had so much blood in his eyes that he couldn't see a darn and being people and horses with him in camp he decided to holler instead of shoot. Generally if you have an encounter with a bear that is circling you and chuffing anf making a scene he's not going to attack he's just trying to get you away from him. But in my case anyway he's a dead bear all the same that's when you'll have time to aim very carefully and vacate his head of any bad thoughts.

May 16, 2002, 01:57 PM	#8
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	You bring up a great point, H&H. Most everything I've ever read (being an uninitiate of the "shoot an attcking bear" club) is that a (daylight) bear can run at 35 MPH & will do so at 10 yards, or so (do the math), from "under cover," as you have surprised 'im. Many time one won't even have the chance to point a firearm (holstered handguns seem less likely to be an advantage here) in the thick(er) brush where one may have an encounter (AK-stuff especially). Many other areas of encounter as I've heard which may present a different scenario of firearm employment, but if wondering about how to stop a charging bear, I'd want to have a big-bore handy, at post arms (at the least) & be ready for a one-shot break-it-down now! (& hopefully) stop - kill it later, but stop it now = break it! As with hunting the bigger pigs in tight quarters, I don't care if I kill it ever, I only want to break it enough so it can't get at me. Killin's for later ..... (call me a wimp ... )

June 15, 2002, 11:26 AM	#10
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Thanx, Spectr17. Folks, note that the heart is much lower in the chest than is usually thought. That's why so many (with respect to this picture) will shoot for a spot a bit higher than the heart and a bit to the right. Can damage the heart; ruptures the lungs which causes a lot of bleeding; and can break the foreleg(s). It's also why using "enough gun" is better than trying to make do with a marginal cartridge. An ethical kill demands massive trauma, rapid blood loss (I just love the word "exsanguination" ) and a blood trail to follow if necessary. Art

June 16, 2002, 12:24 AM	#11
Zorro Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2000 Posts: 1,072	On ANYTHING that is charging at you SHOOT FOR THE NOSE! Except Elephant! A deviant mammal design.