When would a shotgun be your first choice?

Kjeil · July 27, 2009, 10:02 AM

I'm trying to decide if it's really worth getting a tactical style shotgun (Remington 870 or Mossberg) with all the associated overhead such as training, practice, etc.

So here's my question: Say you already have:
- Various.40 S&W handguns
- SBR AR in 50 Beowulf
- Normal length carbine style AR in 5.56
- SPR style AR in 6.5 Grendel with backup iron sights
- SPR style AR in 5.56 also with iron sights

What type of situation would make reaching for a shotgun your first choice? I'm not sure I can think of one but I have the feeling I'm missing something

Brian Pfleuger · July 27, 2009, 10:06 AM

Only when I can reach it.....

A shotgun would almost always be my first choice if it's available. Far more power, less worry about over penetration or missed shots going through 5 walls. The only reason I carry a handgun is because a shotgun is too big.

That said, I personally have no use whatsoever for a "tactical" shotgun. My 11-87 does a number on deer, I don't suspect that it would be any different in a defensive situation.

rburch · July 27, 2009, 10:17 AM

You hear someone breaking a window at 4 am. In the dark, close range it's hard to beat a scattergun.

Your handguns can do the job, but never choose to fight with a handgun if you have the choice of longarms.

Your SBR would be good in close quarters, except I wouldn't want to have to go to court after using an SBR, or anything in 50 Beowulf for defense. Not to mention the obvious over penetration issue.

Your other Ar's could also fill the role, but again the over penetration issue is a problem with any rifle round.

Before I get trashed I'm more than aware that defensive loads in a shotgun can punch through walls and kill. The danger of this is less when using a shotgun compared to a rifle.

and +1 to peetzakilla, within 25 yards I take a shotgun, beyond 25 yards I take a rifle. I choose the handgun when it's my only option

kazanski612 · July 27, 2009, 10:21 AM

I'm considering a tactical shotgun myself, but it would almost never be a "bump in the night" (BinN) solution - it'll be locked in my standup safe in the basement. I'd consider it my DEFCON 1 gun - when I have some reason to believe bad things are going to happen, it's what I'd grab.

But for the other 364 days a year, I'm grabbing the BitN handgun (currently Beretta PX4 .40 with 17-round extended mag).

rantingredneck · July 27, 2009, 10:28 AM

"It's the Indian, not the arrow"

If you have no training/experience with the shotgun, but have training/experience with the others, go with what you know..........

The time to figure it out isn't when you need it.

As to the overpenetration issue, compare a lightweight high velocity .223 round to 00 buckshot and see which one goes through more drywall. My money's on the buckshot personally.

(this from a shotgun guy.........)

Kjeil · July 27, 2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

If you have no training/experience with the shotgun, but have training/experience with the others, go with what you know..........

Yeah, that's what I meant by "Overhead"

Most of my training and experience is with the AR platform, I've always felt that if you have something you better know how to use it. So if I did pick up a shotgun that would mean more classes. That's not necessarily bad but it would take the place of more rifle or handgun training so I want to be sure it's worth it.

I actually have a Saiga 12 but that feels more aligned with carbine training than shotgun.

gun nut · July 27, 2009, 10:47 AM

With your nice selection of firearms if your knowledgeable in their function and abilities you don't probably need a shotgun. If your not familiar with a shotgun you'll need to train to be proficient with it. Personally the 2 guns in close proximity to me are a revolver and a shotgun. I can work either in complete darkness very quickly.

Brian Pfleuger · July 27, 2009, 10:48 AM

I don't know why you'd actually need classes to use the shotgun.
Defensive training? Yes. (Which you have.)
Practice? Yes, you need that with any gun.

Shotguns are not that complicated. You know how to use a gun, the actual differences in deployment are not that significant.

Old Grump · July 27, 2009, 10:58 AM

Trained pistol man here and rifle shooter by choice. When things go squishy at 2 in the morning and I have to check something out my bedside gun is a 357 loaded with 38's. Enough for a close bedroom distance encounter. If I have to get out of bed the Mossberg ends up in my hands loaded with #4 shot because I know the longest likely shot in my house, who is on the other side of the walls and I like the intimidating factor of the shotgun. The chances that I would have to use it goes down and if I do have to shoot the chance I would have to shoot twice is lessened.

Just because its called a scattergun doesn't mean you don't take aimed shots with it unless you are talking a 16" double barrel 10 gauge loaded with #9 bird shot, That is going to scatter like crazy. Can't do that anyway without a NFA stamp and I would never recommend small shot like that for HD. Couldn't do that with a semi or pump because of the tube underneath but you can get 18"-22" which are short enough for in house use.

I use an IM choke so I can shoot anything in it including slugs if needed. Add a 1.5x scope or ghost rings to it and you have a fast sighting accurate gun up to 7 or 8 yards, your longest likely shooting distance inside. Action up to you, I have old farmers guns, single shot break action, doubles, pump and semi's and I choose pump as my go to gun because of its reliability and its the one I'm most familiar with.

Better to have one and not need it than to be facing a couple of dopers flying high at dark thirty in the morning and wishing you had one.

Kjeil · July 27, 2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

I don't know why you'd actually need classes to use the shotgun.

The devil is in the details

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu83.htm

Brian Pfleuger · July 27, 2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

The devil is in the details

How does that explain why you need more classes?

That's some really basic stuff there.

Most of that information is not terribly relevant to most people. Action types? If someone is not familiar with the action types available for a shotgun then they should probably be taking some more classes.

If a gun is too heavy for you then you shouldn't use it.
If you can't handle the recoil then you shouldn't use it.
If it's not reliable then you shouldn't use it.

Personally, I would not consider, under virtually ANY circumstances, using a rifle for HD. I can keep a shotgun on target easier than a handgun. I use #6 or 5 or 4, or similar, birdshot not buck shot, to minimize over penetration issues.

Some mighty good info from our buddy Rob Pincus and The Best Defense here.

P5 Guy · July 27, 2009, 11:54 AM

Kjeil, I'd much rather have a plain old 18.5" pump shotgun. Keep the fancy taticool add ons. #2 shot for the first two and slugs for the last two shots. If it isn't settled by that I'm a goner anyway.

Captain38 · July 27, 2009, 12:23 PM

The muzzle-end image of my State Police issue Model 870 kept me out of 100% of those gun-fights I would have otherwise had over nearly a three decade law enforcement career. I learned to REALLY appreciate it!

It's STILL my weapon of choice around the home if given enough warning!

MTMilitiaman · July 27, 2009, 12:28 PM

When would a shotgun be my first choice?

When the only other choice is a handgun.

Pretty clear pecking order on my totem pole; rifles are king, shotguns a distant second, handguns trail in third, honorable mention to the pointed stick...

I like to keep things simple

Sparks2112 · July 27, 2009, 12:31 PM

If I have my choice, and it's inside of 50 yards I'm going for the shotgun. My Law-12 will pattern all 9 out of Federal Flite Control 00 buck on a standard IPSC target inside 50 yards. Inside 25 and I'm in the A & C zones.

Don't even get me started on what slugs will do.

Skans · July 27, 2009, 12:32 PM

Sporting Clays. That's 'bout it.

raftman · July 27, 2009, 12:33 PM

I wouldn't choose a shotgun simply on account of the "go with what you know" logic. Don't own a shotgun, and have rarely fired one, maybe 20 rounds in my entire life. So basically, I'd go with a shotgun only if under some circumstance, it was the only option. In which case, I'd hope it's a Saiga 12 with 10-round mag.

Sportdog · July 27, 2009, 01:36 PM

If I was just checking something out and was moving around in my house I would select a handgun. If I was taking a stand against BG or BG's I would choose my 18 1/2" pump 12 gauge with 2 3/4" Federal Tactical Buckshot. If there was a problem outside my house I would be keeping track of what is going on with shotgun in one hand and cell phone ready to call 911 in the other. I would NOT go outside to check out a problem. Wait, watch, and be prepared to call 911 or protect myself if things turned south.

ibe4buckshot · July 27, 2009, 01:43 PM

The shot gun is, and always will be my first gun to grab if something starts to go down. Alot more stopping power, less risk of overpenetration.

curt.45 · July 27, 2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

What type of situation would make reaching for a shotgun your first choice? I'm not sure I can think of one but I have the feeling I'm missing something

when there are more than one BG comming at me close range, maybe put enough hurt on all of them with one shot to turn them away, if not at least slow them all down a bit.

lomaxanderson · July 27, 2009, 02:14 PM

most all home defense type happenings that I can think of ,awoken in the middle of the night ..I would use my handguns cause you can operate them with one hand and still have one to defend with or phone or anything else
Now if a gang of thugs called and said they were coming to burn down my house a shotgun would meet that type of threat.8 rounds of OO buck or slugs would even the odds a little...

buzz_knox · July 27, 2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

when there are more than one BG comming at me close range, maybe put enough hurt on all of them with one shot to turn them away, if not at least slow them all down a bit.

Unless we are talking about a very short barrel, most shotgun loads will not disperse much (if at all) at close range. At most social distances, the only advantage buck shot has over a slug is that it is less likely to penetrate.

Sixer · July 27, 2009, 02:32 PM

In a duplex or similar type of dwelling.

PT111 · July 27, 2009, 03:36 PM

I really don't understand all of the commotion about this. If I am in my house and a BG breaks in the longest shot I am going to possibly have is 30 feet and that is maximum. I figure it will be closet ot 10 feet. At that range I really don't need night sights and a scope etc. I also don't need a rifle, a handgun or shotgun will do nicely. I have a double barrel that I don't have to worry about jamming but it only holds two shells. I figure that I am going to hit the BG with at least one of those two shots. I also have a 870, 1100 and a 9mm handy as backups. If the BG runs outside I am not planning on chasing him down the street to need a 50 yard range gun.

All of this is based on him breaking into my house. Now if you are talking about somewhere else then you have to give details but why an AR-15 with a 30 round mag inside your house?

Skans · July 27, 2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Now if a gang of thugs called and said they were coming to burn down my house a shotgun would meet that type of threat.8 rounds of OO buck or slugs would even the odds a little...

Well, if I had that kind of "head up", I'd be on top of my roof with some type of .223 rifle and a bunch of pre-loaded magazines. Oh, and a well planned escape route. But, only if if they called me in advance and made a proper appointment.

July 27, 2009, 10:02 AM	#1
Kjeil Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Posts: 32	When would a shotgun be your first choice? I'm trying to decide if it's really worth getting a tactical style shotgun (Remington 870 or Mossberg) with all the associated overhead such as training, practice, etc. So here's my question: Say you already have: - Various.40 S&W handguns - SBR AR in 50 Beowulf - Normal length carbine style AR in 5.56 - SPR style AR in 6.5 Grendel with backup iron sights - SPR style AR in 5.56 also with iron sights What type of situation would make reaching for a shotgun your first choice? I'm not sure I can think of one but I have the feeling I'm missing something __________________ Since everbody asks: "Kjeil" is pronounced "Kyle" "If thou hast not a sword, sell thy cloak and buy one" Luke 22:36

July 27, 2009, 10:17 AM	#3
rburch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Blacksburg VA Posts: 750	You hear someone breaking a window at 4 am. In the dark, close range it's hard to beat a scattergun. Your handguns can do the job, but never choose to fight with a handgun if you have the choice of longarms. Your SBR would be good in close quarters, except I wouldn't want to have to go to court after using an SBR, or anything in 50 Beowulf for defense. Not to mention the obvious over penetration issue. Your other Ar's could also fill the role, but again the over penetration issue is a problem with any rifle round. Before I get trashed I'm more than aware that defensive loads in a shotgun can punch through walls and kill. The danger of this is less when using a shotgun compared to a rifle. and +1 to peetzakilla, within 25 yards I take a shotgun, beyond 25 yards I take a rifle. I choose the handgun when it's my only option __________________ I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. Last edited by rburch; July 27, 2009 at 10:22 AM. Reason: peetzakilla posted before me

July 27, 2009, 10:28 AM	#5
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	"It's the Indian, not the arrow" If you have no training/experience with the shotgun, but have training/experience with the others, go with what you know.......... The time to figure it out isn't when you need it. As to the overpenetration issue, compare a lightweight high velocity .223 round to 00 buckshot and see which one goes through more drywall. My money's on the buckshot personally. (this from a shotgun guy.........) __________________ NRA Member NC Hunter's Education Instructor PCCA Member (What's PCCA you ask? <- Check the link)

July 27, 2009, 10:47 AM	#7
gun nut Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2009 Location: midwest Posts: 303	With your nice selection of firearms if your knowledgeable in their function and abilities you don't probably need a shotgun. If your not familiar with a shotgun you'll need to train to be proficient with it. Personally the 2 guns in close proximity to me are a revolver and a shotgun. I can work either in complete darkness very quickly. __________________ The only stupid question is the one not asked! (Unknown)

July 27, 2009, 10:48 AM	#8
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I don't know why you'd actually need classes to use the shotgun. Defensive training? Yes. (Which you have.) Practice? Yes, you need that with any gun. Shotguns are not that complicated. You know how to use a gun, the actual differences in deployment are not that significant. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

July 27, 2009, 10:06 AM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Only when I can reach it..... A shotgun would almost always be my first choice if it's available. Far more power, less worry about over penetration or missed shots going through 5 walls. The only reason I carry a handgun is because a shotgun is too big. That said, I personally have no use whatsoever for a "tactical" shotgun. My 11-87 does a number on deer, I don't suspect that it would be any different in a defensive situation. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

July 27, 2009, 10:21 AM	#4
kazanski612 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 120	I'm considering a tactical shotgun myself, but it would almost never be a "bump in the night" (BinN) solution - it'll be locked in my standup safe in the basement. I'd consider it my DEFCON 1 gun - when I have some reason to believe bad things are going to happen, it's what I'd grab. But for the other 364 days a year, I'm grabbing the BitN handgun (currently Beretta PX4 .40 with 17-round extended mag). __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes." - Thomas Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

July 27, 2009, 10:58 AM	#9
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	Trained pistol man here and rifle shooter by choice. When things go squishy at 2 in the morning and I have to check something out my bedside gun is a 357 loaded with 38's. Enough for a close bedroom distance encounter. If I have to get out of bed the Mossberg ends up in my hands loaded with #4 shot because I know the longest likely shot in my house, who is on the other side of the walls and I like the intimidating factor of the shotgun. The chances that I would have to use it goes down and if I do have to shoot the chance I would have to shoot twice is lessened. Just because its called a scattergun doesn't mean you don't take aimed shots with it unless you are talking a 16" double barrel 10 gauge loaded with #9 bird shot, That is going to scatter like crazy. Can't do that anyway without a NFA stamp and I would never recommend small shot like that for HD. Couldn't do that with a semi or pump because of the tube underneath but you can get 18"-22" which are short enough for in house use. I use an IM choke so I can shoot anything in it including slugs if needed. Add a 1.5x scope or ghost rings to it and you have a fast sighting accurate gun up to 7 or 8 yards, your longest likely shooting distance inside. Action up to you, I have old farmers guns, single shot break action, doubles, pump and semi's and I choose pump as my go to gun because of its reliability and its the one I'm most familiar with. Better to have one and not need it than to be facing a couple of dopers flying high at dark thirty in the morning and wishing you had one. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

July 27, 2009, 11:54 AM	#12
P5 Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 1,804	Shotgun? Kjeil, I'd much rather have a plain old 18.5" pump shotgun. Keep the fancy taticool add ons. #2 shot for the first two and slugs for the last two shots. If it isn't settled by that I'm a goner anyway.

July 27, 2009, 12:23 PM	#13
Captain38 Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2004 Posts: 170	The muzzle-end image of my State Police issue Model 870 kept me out of 100% of those gun-fights I would have otherwise had over nearly a three decade law enforcement career. I learned to REALLY appreciate it! It's STILL my weapon of choice around the home if given enough warning! Last edited by Captain38; July 27, 2009 at 01:29 PM.

July 27, 2009, 12:28 PM	#14
MTMilitiaman Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2004 Location: NW Montana Posts: 1,875	When would a shotgun be my first choice? When the only other choice is a handgun. Pretty clear pecking order on my totem pole; rifles are king, shotguns a distant second, handguns trail in third, honorable mention to the pointed stick... I like to keep things simple __________________ "...nothing says 'I WILL shoot every last one of you before you have time to reconsider your poor choices in life' like an AK." ~Dave R.

July 27, 2009, 12:31 PM	#15
Sparks2112 Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 479	If I have my choice, and it's inside of 50 yards I'm going for the shotgun. My Law-12 will pattern all 9 out of Federal Flite Control 00 buck on a standard IPSC target inside 50 yards. Inside 25 and I'm in the A & C zones. Don't even get me started on what slugs will do. __________________ -- Sparks AKA J.M. Johnston

July 27, 2009, 12:32 PM	#16
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Sporting Clays. That's 'bout it.

July 27, 2009, 12:33 PM	#17
raftman Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,890	I wouldn't choose a shotgun simply on account of the "go with what you know" logic. Don't own a shotgun, and have rarely fired one, maybe 20 rounds in my entire life. So basically, I'd go with a shotgun only if under some circumstance, it was the only option. In which case, I'd hope it's a Saiga 12 with 10-round mag.

July 27, 2009, 01:36 PM	#18
Sportdog Junior member Join Date: February 28, 2006 Location: Southwestern Michigan Posts: 369	If I was just checking something out and was moving around in my house I would select a handgun. If I was taking a stand against BG or BG's I would choose my 18 1/2" pump 12 gauge with 2 3/4" Federal Tactical Buckshot. If there was a problem outside my house I would be keeping track of what is going on with shotgun in one hand and cell phone ready to call 911 in the other. I would NOT go outside to check out a problem. Wait, watch, and be prepared to call 911 or protect myself if things turned south. Last edited by Sportdog; July 27, 2009 at 02:24 PM.

July 27, 2009, 01:43 PM	#19
ibe4buckshot Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Posts: 80	The shot gun is, and always will be my first gun to grab if something starts to go down. Alot more stopping power, less risk of overpenetration. __________________ A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

July 27, 2009, 02:14 PM	#21
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: La. Posts: 349	most all home defense type happenings that I can think of ,awoken in the middle of the night ..I would use my handguns cause you can operate them with one hand and still have one to defend with or phone or anything else Now if a gang of thugs called and said they were coming to burn down my house a shotgun would meet that type of threat.8 rounds of OO buck or slugs would even the odds a little... __________________ All I want to do is live in peace...for that I'm willing to die STOLEN COLT NIGHT DEFENDER sn NDF0311 Mason Rhea Gsd

July 27, 2009, 02:32 PM	#23
Sixer Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,891	In a duplex or similar type of dwelling. __________________ Hopp Custom Leather <------ click for HOLSTER awesomeness!! -There is no theory of evolution... Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

July 27, 2009, 03:36 PM	#24
PT111 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Posts: 1,041	I really don't understand all of the commotion about this. If I am in my house and a BG breaks in the longest shot I am going to possibly have is 30 feet and that is maximum. I figure it will be closet ot 10 feet. At that range I really don't need night sights and a scope etc. I also don't need a rifle, a handgun or shotgun will do nicely. I have a double barrel that I don't have to worry about jamming but it only holds two shells. I figure that I am going to hit the BG with at least one of those two shots. I also have a 870, 1100 and a 9mm handy as backups. If the BG runs outside I am not planning on chasing him down the street to need a 50 yard range gun. All of this is based on him breaking into my house. Now if you are talking about somewhere else then you have to give details but why an AR-15 with a 30 round mag inside your house?