Carbine, it’s ammo, What do you have, use, and Why...

[Blindjim]

... do you feel it's such a great piece?


I’m seriously thinking of getting myself a carbine… again. Last one I owned was back in the ‘70s. .30 semi auto. I forget the name brand Probably a Sears or something like that. As times have changed a little bit, I thought to ask here about this and see what trends are indeed being followed and just which approach will suit me.


I’d not post this at all but I can’t afford an HK 416… or elsewise, that would be it… right or wrong. Gosh! What a Helluva gun! Wow. One of the coolest sounding and looking FA guns I’ve ever seen up close and personal. OMG.


I’m not a ‘bug out’ or Waitin’ for the apocolypse’ sort. Ain’t scared of Zombies, vampires etc., just wondering for home defense, and range time fun, depending on which optics I can acquire for it, should likely land in my camp.


I can’t decide on a pistol round, (.45 most likely if I go that way) , or a 5.56mm, or just defaulting to 7.62mm. Or just something differente… 45 long Colt? 44?


I’m liking that Hi point carbine in 45ACP, a lot. But could go a bit more on the budget if it was justifiable.


So, what do you carbine owners shoot that you enjoy, and why did you choose the caliber it shoots?


Many thanks.

[THE RAVEN]

.223/5.56 NATO or a .308.....An A-10 lower .380 build will be a considerable upcharge tho.....

[Hansam]

The Hi-Point 45 carbine isn't a bad gun and if you just want an inexpensive gun to plink with or take to camp with you its a pretty good choice for the money. Their customer service is top notch and the carbine should eat any brand ammo you feed it. That said if you go up in price a bit (quite a bit) you could move into some better carbines.

Staying within pistol calibers you could go for the Beretta Storm carbine. I believe they offer it in 9mm and 40s&w. Never shot one of those myself but from what I've heard they're great little guns.

Moving onto something else - ARs more specifically - you could spend a couple hundred dollars on a fully assembled AR lower and then purchase and/or build uppers to suit your fancy. You want a .223/5.56 carbine with a 14" barrel? No problem. Let's say one day you want to shoot 9mm on the range with your buddies - no problem either. Now you've decided you want to pack a bit more power into the field for deer hunting - ok go with the .30RAR out of an 18" barrel. It all just depends on the uppers you have that you can slap onto the lower - which btw is quite simple. You can change uppers in a matter of minutes!

Now getting away from the ever versatile ARs you can move into something like a Mini 14. Robust and well built these rifles are a staple in the field and farm. Many farmers around here have them and love them although bench shooters will tell you the older models needed work to bring accuracy up to par. The new models do not have this complaint though so Ruger must have done something about it.

Now let's talk AKs. The venerable AK always has a special place in my heart. Tough and durable it was designed to be usable in the hands of an idiot in virtually ANY field condition. Sand, wind, snow, ice, mud, water etc. it doesn't care - you pull the trigger and so long as there is a round in the chamber it'll go bang. Accuracy suffered a bit due to the design of the gun - typically around 3 MOA is the best you'll get with most AKs while some can be found that shoot better but for hunting and plinking purposes 3 MOA is fine within the ranges you'd want to shoot anyway.

There are a few others - the SKS, Kel-tec SUBs and the 10/22 (which you should also get just because everyone should have a 10/22) but I just touched on the few that came to mind right away.

Personally I'd suggest going with an AR - you'll be able to do more with it. If you want ultimate reliability and toughness go with the AK.

[aarondhgraham]

I’m liking that Hi point carbine in 45ACP, a lot. But could go a bit more on the budget if it was justifiable.

Last year on a whim I purchased a Hi Point carbine in 9mm,,,
So far with over 500 rounds of FMJ through it,,,
The gun has been dead on reliable.

All I use it for is as a range toy,,,
All of my buddies have carbines of some sort,,,
So when they play their zombie shooting games I didn't want to be left out.

It's accurate, fun, inexpensive, and reliable,,,
All I wanted it to be,,,
It is.

Aarond

.

[kraigwy]

Carbines?????

I don't consider my ARs carbines, I think of them as rifles. Both 20 inch barrels, one a White Oak upper service rifle, way to heavy for anything but high power shooting.

The other is an SP1, light, accurate, but most of all, the closest I could come in a civilian rifle that matches the M16a1 I used in Vietnam.

So that leaves me with my CMP Underwood M1 Carbine. 110 gr bullets pushed by 15 grns of 296. Pretty dern accurate gun that I use in CMP GSM Carbine matches. It's just fun to shoot. Also for practice I used the same charge w/cast bullets.

I also have a Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 38/357, I use the same cast SWCs I use in my revolvers. Accurate and a heck of a lot of fun to shoot. I can shoot it dern near as cheap as 22s.

[moxie]

A 16" M4orgery is definitely a carbine. Light, shoots a great round with lots of options, reliable, accurate, easy to maintain, flexible to the point of absurdity. Can be had for less than $750 these days. The ammo is also cheaper than most, in bulk, as are reloading components.

[Hansam]

The actual definition of a carbine differs from one manufacturer to the next but typically they'll be rifles that sport an 18" barrel or shorter. Now some manufacturers (such as Marlin) will categorize one gun as a carbine and another as a rifle despite the fact they BOTH sport a 20" barrel... that just confuses things.

Anyway in my mind any long gun that's not a smooth bore with a barrel 16" or shorter is a definitely carbine. Something with a barrel between 16" and 18" is in the grey area - could be either or. Anything with a barrel longer than 18" is a rifle.

That being the case - an AR with an upper that has a 20" barrel is a rifle. Slap on an upper with a 16" barrel or shorter and now you've got a carbine.

Note - the M16A1 is classified as a rifle. The M4 is classified as a carbine.

[4V50 Gary]

I would get something that has readily available ammunition and secondarily, parts.

[L_Killkenny]

I know you're think about a .45 but IMO I'd go 9mm. Now I'm not a fan of the 9mm by any stretch of the imagination and am always giving buddies crap about theirs but in a carbine it a completely different animal and cheaper to shoot. As for platform I'd look hard at the KelTec's. While costing more than the Hi-points they aren't that much more ($100?), very very compact (we're talking laptop case), uses better magazines and I've yet to hear any reliability or function issues.

LK

[amprecon]

I have both a SLR-95 and a LAR-6 A4 mid-length, both of which I consider carbines as their barrels are 16". Of the two, I favor the LAR-6 (6.8spc) with the Aimpoint.

The overall size is just right, and it packs a punch in 6.8spc, it has been totally reliable and very accurate. Of course you get the ergonomically friendly design of the AR platform to boot.

[Blindjim]

Very nice pic.

I'll try to keep an open mind on calibers.... brands too. so far this is all news to me and I'm grateful for it as it all helps to make a more informed choice.

Kaltech, SKS, Ruger, or roll your own, huh? That last bit on building one to acquire caliber versatility sure is interesting. I'd opt than for the NATO rounds, yet somehow the 357 - 38spl sure appears as the best tweener round, delivering punch and speed, and I'd guess range too.. Long range shooting for me (400 ft +) are over. ... without some super duper optics on board.

True too, with a 16 in barrel, 9MM is another breed, and cheap to run. I think that part is important too.

being able to get out to 300ft. Have enough energy in that range beyond my SPX 930, AND ENOUGH MASS TO DO SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE AS DOES MY fnp 45t.

I suppose now I should see just what some of these other 'carbines' cost... and just what 556 9mm and 38spl 357, and 40SW, run too.

capacity of the Hi Point mags is a bummer... and what is causing me to balk on pulling the trigger for it.

Also, the diffs in accuracy and energy between the 40sw & 45acp coming out of it's muzzel. I'm not up on too many ballistics apart from what I own now.. 45acp & 12ga 2 3/4 & 3in..

[gak]

Hansam wrote:
" The actual definition of a carbine differs from one manufacturer to the next but typically they'll be rifles that sport an 18" barrel or shorter. Now some manufacturers (such as Marlin) will categorize one gun as a carbine and another as a rifle despite the fact they BOTH sport a 20" barrel... that just confuses things.Anyway in my mind any long gun that's not a smooth bore with a barrel 16" or shorter is a definitely carbine. Something with a barrel between 16" and 18" is in the grey area - could be either or. Anything with a barrel longer than 18" is a rifle.That being the case - an AR with an upper that has a 20" barrel is a rifle. Slap on an upper with a 16" barrel or shorter and now you've got a carbine.Note - the M16A1 is classified as a rifle. The M4 is classified as a carbine."

Ironically, the one gun many think most epitomizes the term "carbine"--perhaps by its famous self-defining name and history--the M1 Carbine, is 18.5", but we know what you mean . Since the M1 is its own anomaly by not being a "shorter barreled version of anything" from the get-go, it gains its handiness with a shorter OAL and other compact dimensions. Others such as the Beretta, Ruger PC, Marlin Camp, etc, etc., have followed the pattern of being their own carbine platforms right from the drafting board. Others, larger-scale guns to start with like the Winchester 1886, have their carbine barrels as long as 22", but its baby brother the 1892 and ubiquitous cousin 1894 are 20 inchers. The M1-like Ruger 10-22, and (non-"tactical" model) Mini 14/30s adopted the M1 Carbine's barrel length...but they again are somewhat anomalies in (originally) being their own platforms from the start--and are seldom referred to as "carbines" as a result.

Sure, that's a lot of "anomalies," but Hansam is generally right--Winchester levers aside, carbines these days, including bolt-actions, usually have barrels 18" or shorter.

[L_Killkenny]

Actually, the term carbine predates the M1 carbine by many years (civil war?) and generally refers to guns with barrels 20" or shorter such as many of the Marlin and Winchester lever actions. Now there has been some debate whether a carbine is required to have a barrel band and while I've argued in the past that it isn't required the argument for barrel bands does have some validity. In the past it seems that rifles with 20" or shorter barrels and no band were referred to as "short rifles" and not carbines.

Still, exact date of origin, definitions and dimensions aside, in today's world a carbine is any short handy rifle.

LK

[gak]

LK - good post.

[Wyosmith]

If the budget is available I'd recommend an AR-15 in 6.8 SPC with a 16" barrel, free float for end and match trigger set up with a 1X to 4-5X scope, and a bayonet lug (why not...the libs hate it, so it MUST be a good thing to have HAAHAHAHAHAHAHA)

If Budget is tight get an AK-47

[carprivershooter]

in my thoughts a carbine is a m-1 carbine, I own 2 M-1s one is a modern manufacture and the other in 1944 vintage made by inland. I shot both they are fun cheap to shot if you reload. I have not had problems getting brass or bullets, 110g soft nose jacketed over 14.5 gr. of H-110. I also own a AR-M-4 carbine, which in the gun club where I shoot in referred to as a M4 carbine. I guess we see different things when the word carbine in used. if you can find a surplus M-1 carbine expect to pay 500-650. A new copy M-1 will cost about 850 +. basic AR M4 carbine 995 +. If you want some thing fun to shoot about are fun. My main home defense weapon in a 12guage pump and as back up a 1911, also fun to shoot. this is my 2cents.

[BUFF]

I own an M1 made in '42. My dad did some trading to get it. Sometimes .30 cal can be hard to find.

Also own a mini 14 ranch rifle. Nice little gun. 581 series. Accuracy suffers when the barrell heats up though.

I have an SKS but don't really consider it a carbine. It's long and heavy for what I consider carbines. It's a Yugo version so it has the bayonet and grenade launcher attachments which add some weight to it.

I assume that you want a semi auto in some sort of pistol caliber. Not a lever gun. That just doesn't sound like "fun" at the range for me.

I've had thought of picking up one of the Hi-Point pistol carbines. Maybe in 9mm. Low mag capacity is a drawback for me also.

Kel-Tec makes some good ones. I would not want one in .223 though. If I was gonna do that I would just save up my pennies for an AR.

[Palmetto-Pride]

I used to have a M1-Carbine couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if I were in it with the doors shut.......with that thing....., but it was fun to shoot

[Blindjim]

I appreciate the history lesson and further definitions on the terminology. Never hurts to be absolutely clear on any subject. Especially those which by their very nature are clouded.

I previously owned an M1 (style) carbine... that's what it was. 30 rd Banana clip/mag. I'm not sure if I ever did fire that gun. Probably did... but not much. $139.95 + tax… no waiting.

Mine too was a touch off but no more… the steel barrel had more to do with that I feel. Later Chrome ones were more steady on the dot with heavy use.

Self defense back then was more about using your hands and feet, not shooting people or being shot. Those occasions too were few and far between.

Home defense? Meaning, Da fence dunny! That’ll keep out anyone who shouldn’t be here. I recall just leaving the screen door latched on hot summer nights, and the door wide open.

Add a dog and you were set.

Truth be told we were worried far more about the Russians than we were about gang members, crack heads, and teen agers with too much time on their hands wanting to post another house invasion on Youtube.

I saw a post on ten different carbines on a dedicated 9MM website today while perusing ballistics diffs of 9mm & 5.56mm… and their accordant costs.

I don't like the looks of the Kaltech at all. The beretta is nice. Somehow or other I'm always drawn to Berettas. Am clueless as to why though.

I'm fast coming to see how and why the Armalite introduced AR is phat in today's medium sized rifle world. The versatility is astonishing. its looks are as well interesting with a high degree of cool factor. Its easy to see how ergonomic it can be, and how adaptable they can be too. That site even showed knock off Uzzi’s. and a couple machine pistols… of course all in semi.

The earlier post on building one, so two top ends can agree with the balance of the piece and thus yield two different rifles, in effect, just about wins the day for me... maybe. My neighbor has built most of his including a Frankengun and so forth. 'Course he takes every opportunity to ignite any pyro technic (fire work) he can justify. Flag day, National Ice Cream Day, Summer Equinox, getting out of jury duty day, etc.... he'd love to build one for me I'm sure.

The main concern then is the end costs… some optics too are in store for me and they’ve got to be some pretty special ones to boot given my poor eyesight.

I believe the first one ought to be a 5.56.... maybe. Or, just go get the Hi Point in 9 or 40. Decisions, decisions… thankfully these are of the fun kind primarily.

if it turns out the suspected “AR”'build' will exceed the cost of a Beretta, I'd likely go wiht the Beretta then... and that would about sum up where I am now thanks to you folks and some online research I'm doing.

Of course, with the right six numbers this weekend, I can see a Trust getting put in force, and a 416 in my closet pretty soon. Hearing one run through mag after mag recently at the range I was at made a real impression on me. It was a 5.56mm. Sounded like a huge dinosaur growling. The sound alone was terrifying.

And that was with me wearing Howard Leight sports ear wear and plugs!

A LEO from a neighboring counties SWAT team was sending them downrange. We were just shooting an FN 5.7 and my SPX 930 w/3 IN MAGNUNS.

Mostly we wondered at and watched the LEO with the Dragon in his hands belch fire. Over and over… wow.

[Chettt]

Get a used Winchester or Marlin 30-30. They have been the perfect rifle, carbine and go to gun for over 100 years and you can buy one for $200 to $400.

[chadio]

FN Herstal PS90.

5.7x28

Why? "Smiles everyone, smiles... I am your host - welcome to Fantasy Island"

Spendy gun, spendy ammo, but you can't put a price on the fun factor. I have yet to meet anyone who isn't completely thrilled to shoot it.

(oh by the way - it was a 'happy father's day' present to myself )

[darkgael]

Does the carbine have to be a semi-auto (referring to the OP here)?
I have three "carbines" - one is an original 1873 Trapdoor cavalry carbine that is a marvelous shooter.
A number of years ago, I acquired a WWII M1 Carbine....marvelous little gun. And about 20 years ago, I bought a Rossi lever action carbine chambered in .357 Magnum, 16.5" barrel. It, too, is a marvelous little gun, quite accurate and reliable; it's a good "walk-in-the-woods" gun.
Pete

[sailskidrive]

How about a SIG 716 in .308???

[Blindjim]

Lever actions are a no go for me. albeit I'm sure if things were otherwise they'd be a top contender.

Nice pics... but probably not a Sig for me.


As I feel I'll be definitely going to a 16 - 17 in barrel... which calibers suffer some ballistic loss at that length barrel, and what twist (s) could as well, impede their ballistics?

I'm figuring on these rounds... 5.56; .40; .45; 7.62; and 9mm, pretty much in that order of preff.

THANKS

[Hansam]

It sounds to me like you should really go with the AR.

You can order a fully built AR from Palmetto State Armory for less than $600 - built to fire 5.56/.223. After that you can order upper assemblies to shoot 9mm, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8SPC, 7.62x39, .450BM and .50Beowulf. I know there are also other cartridges I failed to list. These just happen to be the ones that come to mind right away.

One lower - multiple uppers (each with their own optic of course) and you end up with one rifle that you can load out to shoot various cartridges per your desired use.

Be careful though - while the original lower receiver itself isn't particularly expensive (between $100 to $250) the addiction that comes with it can become a rather heavy burden on your checking account.