A2 free floating forearm

[tangolima]

My A2 clone never shoots well as the other upper with m-lok free floating forearm, regardless what I have done to improve. Occasionally it shoots sub-moa 10-shot groups. But mostly it is 1.5-2 moa with stupid flyers outside the group.

I have been contemplating getting a national match free floating sleeve. $100 sounds quite a bit. But any aluminum forearm costs more, often much more. Hope that will do the trick.

Some said the sleeve is heavy. Anything wrong drilling lightening holes in it? Do I really need to replace the gas tube? Can I bend the existing one to fit? Thanks.

-TL

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[jcj54]

Sleeve/tube weight is minimal.
The A2 NM rifles have a heavy barrel. The sleeve is a thin tube. If you are resting the handguard on sandbag or rest the float tube won't help much unless you support just ahead of the magwell. The float tube was designed to minimize barrel shift from sling pressure down and to the side in competition shooting.
You may be able to resend the gas tube.

[tangolima]

Thanks. I don't compete, no need for the lead weights. The barrel perhaps. I will wait till I shoot out this one. I'm just hoping to eliminate the flyers. So the tube is thin. But it is rugged enough to serious slinging. If slinging is ok, it shouldn't matter how the forearm is rested, right?

-TL

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[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by TL

$100 sounds quite a bit. But any aluminum forearm costs more, often much more.

A plain freefloat tube for $30 will isolate the barrel too. It isn't hard to drill holes in it for slings or bits of picatinny rail.

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by zukiphile

A plain freefloat tube for $30 will isolate the barrel too. It isn't hard to drill holes in it for slings or bits of picatinny rail.

I saw those tubes. Now they are $50-$60. I like to keep the rifle as military rifle clone though. The quad rail costs almost 10x. I can't.

Eventually ordered A2 free floating tube from Brownells today. Caught a good deal. It helps. Will see how it goes.

-TL

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[Metal god]

Mines heavy , made of steel . They could be made of aluminum but assume the weight is a good thing on a NM rifle so its a good thing .

Im surprised how many people don’t even know there is such a thing . Many times at public ranges guys will come up to me and say something to the effect the rifle would shoot better if the barrel was free floated . I then say it is and get an immediate response no its not with the explanation why they think it’s not . Depending on how there attitude is in that first interaction . Meaning them either looking curious or rolling there eyes as if Im stupid . That will determine if I show them nicely or make them look uninformed in front of there friends . ;-)

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by Metal god

Mines heavy , made of steel . They could be made of aluminum but assume the weight is a good thing on a NM rifle so its a good thing .

Im surprised how many people don’t even know there is such a thing . Many times at public ranges guys will come up to me and say something to the effect the rifle would shoot better if the barrel was free floated . I then say it is and get an immediate response no its not with the explanation why they think it’s not . Depending on how there attitude is in that first interaction . Meaning them either looking curious or rolling there eyes as if Im stupid . That will determine if I show them nicely or make them look uninformed in front of there friends . ;-)

The tube weighs 1lb. That's how much it will add to the rifle, give and take. A light weight aluminum mlok forearm weights a couple of ounces less. Guess not to bad. I will look into drilling holes. For weight and running cooler.

-TL

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[Metal god]

One pound is a lot to a 6lb rifle . One pounds sounds light to me but maybe that’s what mine weighs . Its been many years since I installed it but do distinctly remembering how heavy it felt at the time especially compared to the hand guards that go back on . So adding a pound or what ever to the front of your rifle makes a big difference .

Makes it very muzzle heavy and unbalanced . I have lead and plumbers putty in the stock to add weight and that balanced it out .

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by Metal god

One pound is a lot to a 6lb rifle . One pounds sounds light to me but maybe that’s what mine weighs . Its been many years since I installed it but do distinctly remembering how heavy it felt at the time especially compared to the hand guards that go back on . So adding a pound or what ever to the front of your rifle makes a big difference .

Makes it very muzzle heavy and unbalanced . I have lead and plumbers putty in the stock to add weight and that balanced it out .

Right. NM shooters actually add lead weights embracing the tube. That's part of the reason I stopped going to matches. It is too unreal.

Anyway. If I don't get the NM tube, but an aluminum free floating handguard instead, even the light weight kind is only 2 ounces lighter. The one similar to the military quad rail handguard is more than 1lb and costs a small fortune. That's why the tube doesn't seem too bad. I ditch the heat shields and save half an ounce? Drilling holes saves another ounce maybe. It will be heavier, but hopefully tolerable. Price to pay if it eliminates the flyers.

I'm getting an used A1 butt stock to replace the A2 part. Shorter pull.

-TL

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[zukiphile]

The one similar to the military quad rail handguard is more than 1lb and costs a small fortune.

My goal isn't to talk you out of what you want to do, but know that there are less expensive free float quadrails. I believe the price on them is somewhat depressed because they aren't MLok.

I have a heavy bipod I can toss on a quadrail or bit of picatinny on an MLok and it's good for about a pound.

[imashooter]

Unless OP is conducting long distance, pinpoint shooting, a free-floater will very likely make no difference. Like so many other things, for the everyday shooter, nothing more than a marketing ploy.

[zukiphile]

Unless OP is conducting long distance, pinpoint shooting, a free-floater will very likely make no difference.

As a mediocre shooter, I can assure you that mediocrity may be the result, but it isn't my goal. I'd love to be a pinpoint shooter every time.

The problem a three position shooter will run into isn't mechanically poor accuracy, but a migrating point of impact as he plays with sling tensions and rests. It's neat to be able to do that without the added variable of a different POI.

I have one 20" HBAR and I've left it in the A2 handguards. I can't discern any shift with sling tension and it's heavy enough that I don't enjoy toting it. My guess would be that good ammunition would do more to cut down on variability in that rifle than a free float tube.

I have a 20" pencil barrel in a carbon fiber free float tube and I've never even tried it with a GI style handguard just because of the stories I've heard.

[tangolima]

I could be wrong, but the quad rail handguard has picatinny rails on 4 sides, not mlok. Mlok free floating handguards are newer and more affordable. But still they are no lighter, nor cheaper, than the NM tube.

Free floating barrel has improved poi consistency for myself. I hope it will do it again this time.

-TL

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[Metal god]

I didn’t realize you were going with a quad rail . You are not gonna like it and I don’t know anybody that does . It’s incredibly uncomfortable to shoot. There is no place/point to hold that doesn’t dig and bite into your fingers on recoil . Which then requires those little cap/covers, adding even more weight . There’s a reason the industry went to key mod then mloc . They are simply better in every way .

To each his own , I truly hope which ever you decide on works out for you .

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by Metal god

I didn’t realize you were going with a quad rail . You are not gonna like it and I don’t know anybody that does . It’s incredibly uncomfortable to shoot. There is no place/point to hold that doesn’t dig and bite into your fingers on recoil . Which then requires those little cap/covers, adding even more weight . There’s a reason the industry went to key mod then mloc . They are simply better in every way .

To each his own , I truly hope which ever you decide on works out for you .

No I'm not going to have quad rail. It is heavy and expensive. I'd rather to have the NM sleeve.

-TL

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[BobCat45]

Quad rail is indeed a hand and glove eater; I think people went to those for Highpower competition because early on they were the only style (that did not go underneath the standard plastic handguards) that were 'legal' by the rules.

The Free float sleeve from White Oak https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/ser...-assembly.html is extremely sturdy and seems to be made of thicker tubing than the generic one from e.g. Model 1 https://model1sales.com/index.cfm?fu...ategory_id=451

Either one will do what you want to do - float the barrel so that neither sling tension nor bipod/front rest will influence the poi.

I have one rifle with the 'generic' one; it works fine and does not eat my glove.

[imashooter]

[QUOTE]As a mediocre shooter, I can assure you that mediocrity may be the result, but it isn't my goal. I'd love to be a pinpoint shooter every time.

The problem a three position shooter will run into isn't mechanically poor accuracy, but a migrating point of impact as he plays with sling tensions and rests. It's neat to be able to do that without the added variable of a different POI.

I have one 20" HBAR and I've left it in the A2 handguards. I can't discern any shift with sling tension and it's heavy enough that I don't enjoy toting it. My guess would be that good ammunition would do more to cut down on variability in that rifle than a free float tube.

I have a 20" pencil barrel in a carbon fiber free float tube and I've never even tried it with a GI style handguard just because of the stories I've heard.[QUOTE]

I have a basic 20" govt model from Windham. Out of the box I could hit quarter size or a spit less at 100m supported (bench rest) and on a good day unsupported. Later I installed a 4-12 and have no issues tagging between a dime and a nickel. Heck of a gun imo. Humped an A2 for quite some time and always thought it was so very light/maneuverable compared to the cumbersome M14. Then of course they downsized, etc over time which is nice. But the point being, there was never an issue with non-floating handguards. I appreciate my other hand guards just fine but not due to them floating.

[Metal god]

Sorry thought that was what you were looking at , my bad

Yeah I have the White oak model , and explains my confusion with the 2oz difference . I have several free float rails from quad , key-mod , M-lok and NM sleeve . The sleeve has always weighed much more then any other . I have a 15" M-loc that weighs what seems to be almost nothing compared to what I remember the sleeve weighing keeping in mind the hand guards still need to go back on the sleeve .

Speaking of free floating .... have you floated away with all this rain we've been getting haha . My neighbor is getting ground water coming up into his basement , so far I'm doing OK .

Also we plan to have another BBQ out at SBR&GC soon . You are invited and hope to see you out there . I'll PM when the details are more finalized .

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by Metal god

Sorry thought that was what you were looking at , my bad



Yeah I have the White oak model , and explains my confusion with the 2oz difference . I have several free float rails from quad , key-mod , M-lok and NM sleeve . The sleeve has always weighed much more then any other . I have a 15" M-loc that weighs what seems to be almost nothing compared to what I remember the sleeve weighing keeping in mind the hand guards still need to go back on the sleeve .



Speaking of free floating .... have you floated away with all this rain we've been getting haha . My neighbor is getting ground water coming up into his basement , so far I'm doing OK .



Also we plan to have another BBQ out at SBR&GC soon . You are invited and hope to see you out there . I'll PM when the details are more finalized .

Yes sir thank you. You need to have a good sump pump in the basement, and french drain around the house.

-TL

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[tangolima]

Put the tube on, after a bit of tinkering. It does make the rifle noticeably heavier. The CG moves forward by about 2" from the front wall of the mag well. I wouldn't mind as now I can c-brace the handguard with impunity. I may still drill holes where the vent holes are to take out a couple of ounces for weight and heat. Will shoot it first.

Got a surplus a1 stock. I quite like its shorter length of pull. It took a lot of work though. The swivel has be rusted in place. Couldn't save it so I cut it out. I don't use the rear swivel anyway. Really annoying is the undersized buffer tube channel. Inside is some sort of paper liner, probably left over from its time in the military armory. It is now "frozen" in place. It took quite some efforts to remove it so that my buffer tube could go in.

-TL

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[tangolima]

Took the gun to the range yesterday. Overall I felt it shot better with the tube. Couldn't do a precise comparison as I had iron sight on. The first thing I noticed was the 4moa lower poi. Then the flyers were gone. Group size without flyers was more or less the same as before though.

Went ahead and reshot a 10-shot ladder. There i could see a distinct node at MV higher than before. The previous ladder test results had much less distinct nodes at lighter charge. I will do a COAL test around that node. Hopefully it will shrink the group a bit.

I'm happy to invest money on the tube and A1 stock. The rifle has become a bit front heavier. But if I put on the lpvo, the CG actually moves back to the same location.

-TL

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[Metal god]

Great , love it when happiness occurs . Now you will get the AR “experts” at the range telling you free floating your barrel will be better . Haha

[tangolima]

I actually wouldn't mind trying a free floating mlok handguard, if I can find an used one on calguns for cheap.

-TL

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[Metal god]

I went to the cross roads of the west gun show in Vegas a couple weeks ago and was told by venders there that they will be coming to Del Mar this year . You will be able to find a Rail there for under $100 . Over the years I've bought a couple there that seem to work just fine , one 12" Key-Mod for $45 . I have one M-Loc now sitting on a shelf waiting for a build haha . It's to long (15" )for anything I need right now . It will likely be used on a 20" presession build that I've wanted to do for quite some time but life keeps getting in the way .

[tangolima]

Thanks for the tips. I have found optics planet a very good source. They have a few below $70. I'm in no hurry so I will wait for their "blazin' deal". In the meantime, I'm going to drill holes on the tube.

-TL

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