Sellier & Bellot 2 3/4 12ga 00buck... measure again!

Onslaught · November 2, 2000, 10:14 PM

I purchased a medium quantity of Sellier and Bellot 00buck in 12 gauge. Box reads '2 3/4" 00buck max dram equiv.'

I was kind of disappointed when, for the first time in a WHILE, I tried to load all 7 rounds in the tube of my now WELL discussed Winchester defender... and only 6 would fit!

So after disassembling the gun to see if there was some obstruction in the mag tube, I got NOWHERE! It was only days later, JUST NOW in fact, that I realized the problem...

I decided to try again, but only having 5 S&B shells handy, I decided to raid the gun cabinet for whatever was in there. I grabbed a box of Federals, and oops, they're 3" magnums. But wait... they don't look any shorter than the S&B's... THEY'RE NOT!!! The S&B's are 3" long, though I'm sure they're not "magnums".

Okay, that's it... I just thought I'd share!

Daniel Watters · November 3, 2000, 01:27 AM

Shotshell length is measured from the fired length not crimped length. Thus, the roll crimped S&B tend to be longer than the star-crimped hulls of other brands; however, both will unfold to 2-3/4". This also explains how folks sometimes accidentally chamber 3" shells in a 2-3/4" chamber.

To give an example, my Federal H132 (9 pellet OO Buck) measures 2.344". A S&B 12 pellet OO Buck measures 2.568". Yet both are marked 2-3/4". As a comparison, a Winchester Super-X 3" 1oz. Slug measures 2.558"!

Icopy · November 3, 2000, 09:09 AM

Freaked me out first too. But then again, where else are you going to find 25 rounds og 00 buck for less than 8 dollars.

CMOS · November 3, 2000, 09:31 AM

I've shot hundres of the S&B shells. Keep in mind that the S&B shells will produce a pattern at least 2X wider than that of an American made shell.

This may be good or bad depending on your shooting distance. For me, that's waaaaaaaayyy to big a pattern.

CMOS

------------------
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CMOS's Site

**Mike Irwin** · November 3, 2000, 11:08 AM

Onslaught,

The roll-crimp is, as others have said, the culprit. But, with that roll crimp, you get 3 extra pellets.

CMOS,

Not in my shotgun. The S&B shells produce a pattern that is slightly larger, on average, but it still stays nicely inside a B27 at 10 yards.

------------------
Smith & Wesson is dead to me.

If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!

CMOS · November 3, 2000, 03:05 PM

Mike, strange. I shot my Benelli with full choke at sollouette target at 25 yards and got only 4 pellets on the black. Disgusting.

[shrugs]

CMOS

------------------
NRA? Good. Now join the GOA!

CMOS's Site

Dagny · November 3, 2000, 06:45 PM

Within a home, a range to perp of 5 yards would be average. 10 yards and you've got a BIG house! 25 yards across the front lawn to the sidewalk and the prosecutor will be sending you to the BIG house!

Daniel Watters · November 3, 2000, 07:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMOS:
Mike, strange. I shot my Benelli with full choke at sollouette target at 25 yards and got only 4 pellets on the black. Disgusting. [/quote]

I suspect the combination of a full choke and unbuffered, soft lead buckshot is not conducive to decent patterns. I can keep all 12 in the torso at 15yds out of my cylinder bore Beretta 1201FP3.

Dave McC · November 4, 2000, 07:32 AM

CMOS, I did a test long ago for my agency, using issue 870s with "Police Cylinder" chokes,and my chokeless personal 870, and WW generic 9 pellet 00. At 25 yards,none of 15 rounds kept all the pellets on a lifesized silohuette, but almost all of the misses were one or two pellets. We tried a full choke, and the hit numbers dropped. A Mod choke gave the best results on most shots, but a few patterns had a big hole in the center, a donut pattern as it were. My guess is,a light Modified or Skt II choke may be best for 00.

But testing is the only sure way to know.

Poodleshooter · November 6, 2000, 04:25 PM

Definietly switch to modified choke for heavy buckshot loads!! This is especially important when it doesn't have copper or nickle plated shot, buffering or a teflon wrap around the shot load. Full choke crushes the pellets causing bad deformation and big patterns.

November 2, 2000, 10:14 PM	#1
Onslaught Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,749	I purchased a medium quantity of Sellier and Bellot 00buck in 12 gauge. Box reads '2 3/4" 00buck max dram equiv.' I was kind of disappointed when, for the first time in a WHILE, I tried to load all 7 rounds in the tube of my now WELL discussed Winchester defender... and only 6 would fit! So after disassembling the gun to see if there was some obstruction in the mag tube, I got NOWHERE! It was only days later, JUST NOW in fact, that I realized the problem... I decided to try again, but only having 5 S&B shells handy, I decided to raid the gun cabinet for whatever was in there. I grabbed a box of Federals, and oops, they're 3" magnums. But wait... they don't look any shorter than the S&B's... THEY'RE NOT!!! The S&B's are 3" long, though I'm sure they're not "magnums". Okay, that's it... I just thought I'd share!

November 3, 2000, 01:27 AM	#2
Daniel Watters Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 644	Shotshell length is measured from the fired length not crimped length. Thus, the roll crimped S&B tend to be longer than the star-crimped hulls of other brands; however, both will unfold to 2-3/4". This also explains how folks sometimes accidentally chamber 3" shells in a 2-3/4" chamber. To give an example, my Federal H132 (9 pellet OO Buck) measures 2.344". A S&B 12 pellet OO Buck measures 2.568". Yet both are marked 2-3/4". As a comparison, a Winchester Super-X 3" 1oz. Slug measures 2.558"!

November 3, 2000, 09:09 AM	#3
Icopy Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2000 Posts: 340	Freaked me out first too. But then again, where else are you going to find 25 rounds og 00 buck for less than 8 dollars.

November 3, 2000, 09:31 AM	#4
CMOS Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 1999 Location: TEXAS Posts: 1,417	I've shot hundres of the S&B shells. Keep in mind that the S&B shells will produce a pattern at least 2X wider than that of an American made shell. This may be good or bad depending on your shooting distance. For me, that's waaaaaaaayyy to big a pattern. CMOS ------------------ NRA? Good. Now join the GOA! CMOS's Site

November 3, 2000, 11:08 AM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,404	Onslaught, The roll-crimp is, as others have said, the culprit. But, with that roll crimp, you get 3 extra pellets. CMOS, Not in my shotgun. The S&B shells produce a pattern that is slightly larger, on average, but it still stays nicely inside a B27 at 10 yards. ------------------ Smith & Wesson is dead to me. If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!

November 3, 2000, 03:05 PM	#6
CMOS Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 1999 Location: TEXAS Posts: 1,417	Mike, strange. I shot my Benelli with full choke at sollouette target at 25 yards and got only 4 pellets on the black. Disgusting. [shrugs] CMOS ------------------ NRA? Good. Now join the GOA! CMOS's Site

November 3, 2000, 06:45 PM	#7
Dagny Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2000 Location: Galt's Gulch Posts: 390	Within a home, a range to perp of 5 yards would be average. 10 yards and you've got a BIG house! 25 yards across the front lawn to the sidewalk and the prosecutor will be sending you to the BIG house!

November 3, 2000, 07:52 PM	#8
Daniel Watters Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 644	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMOS: Mike, strange. I shot my Benelli with full choke at sollouette target at 25 yards and got only 4 pellets on the black. Disgusting. [/quote] I suspect the combination of a full choke and unbuffered, soft lead buckshot is not conducive to decent patterns. I can keep all 12 in the torso at 15yds out of my cylinder bore Beretta 1201FP3.

November 4, 2000, 07:32 AM	#9
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	CMOS, I did a test long ago for my agency, using issue 870s with "Police Cylinder" chokes,and my chokeless personal 870, and WW generic 9 pellet 00. At 25 yards,none of 15 rounds kept all the pellets on a lifesized silohuette, but almost all of the misses were one or two pellets. We tried a full choke, and the hit numbers dropped. A Mod choke gave the best results on most shots, but a few patterns had a big hole in the center, a donut pattern as it were. My guess is,a light Modified or Skt II choke may be best for 00. But testing is the only sure way to know.

November 6, 2000, 04:25 PM	#10
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	Definietly switch to modified choke for heavy buckshot loads!! This is especially important when it doesn't have copper or nickle plated shot, buffering or a teflon wrap around the shot load. Full choke crushes the pellets causing bad deformation and big patterns.