If Glocks are so great,how come Sigmas stink?

[Tropical Z]

If S&W was sued for essentially copying the Glock,then why is the Sigma almost universally described as a lousy gun while people worship Glocks?:confused:

[C.R.Sam]

Glocks work nearly all the time.

Sam

[Ala Dan]

I have yet to see (or hear) of any S&W Sigma completing
a police qualification course of fire; without a major type
of malfunction.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Tropical Z]

But Why?
Again,if the Sigma is a COPY of the Glock why are they unreliable?
A Bulgarian Makarov is as good as a Russian or East German.

[Alexis Machine]

Because it is made by a different company with different QC and manufacturing procedures would be your first clue.

A Bulgarian Makarov is as good as an East German? In what way? Sure isn't even close in finish.

[Tropical Z]

In terms of reliability,makarovs are pretty much the same and my bulgarian is as nice as any east german i've seen.Maybe the east germans i've seen were seconds!

[CZ_]

The Sigma is NOT an EXACT copy of a Glock. There are subtle differences, and in addition the quality control of S&W's semi-autos is lacking IMO. The Sigmas are the worst offenders, but I've personally owned a non-Sigma S&W that was a POS (model 457). OTOH, the Glocks are in generally given better quality control. Why? I guess one company (Glock) believes in doing it right the first time; rather than waiting till the customers start sending the products for fixing under warantee (as S&W does--especially with the Sigmas). Just my opinion of course.

[Kermit]

Sigmas stink because they didn't do a complete cloning of the Glock. 1st, the took what they liked...striker fired, safeties w/in the trigger system, poly frame & metal slide. Then S&W added some of the same thinking that got them to sign "the agreement" and you get the Sigma line ;)
Do you something half ###, your product will be hals ###!

[Mike Irwin]

It's not a copy.

Or at least a true copy.

Certain elements of the action were "borrowed," but it wasn't a true-faith copy job. S&W lifted what they believed to be public domain aspects of the design and then threw in their own touches.

Mechanical and material specs are likely QUITE a bit different.

Composition of materials, method of manufacture, care taken in manufacture, all can play a pivotal role in how durable/reliable a gun is.

One common problem I hear with the Sigmas, or at least the early Sigmas, was splitting of the polymer frame under the muzzle, leading to feed & function problems.

One thing I will say about the Sigma; the grip is one hell of a lot friendlier for my hands than the Glock is.

[9x45]

The Sigma is not a Glock copy. The top end is similar, but not identical. The striker spring and extactor depressor plunger spring are very heavy compared to a Glock and contribute to the overall hard trigger pull. The bottom end of the Sigma has a completely different trigger system than the Glock. Trigger pull is longer, but there is no 'hitch' Also, the Sigma trigger resets itself and does not need the slide to be racked to go forward. This is because the reset spring is at the trigger itself and not at the connector like a Glock. The Sigma also uses metal magazines instead of plastic lined ones.
The Sigma can do one thing that most Glocks won't, and that is eject mags like a 1911. Course this will stop when the plastic mag catch wears out from the metal mags.

[Whats-A-Glock?]

Are you related to quickad?

Because they are made by Smith&Wesson. S&W cannot make a decent polymer, even when they buy or steal the design.

[Jason Demond]

The first Sigmas had problems, everyone knows that. It also is Glock like, which pisses off the people who think Glock is the best thing since sliced bread. So there are two striked against it right there, the third strike is the S&W/HUD deal.
That being said, I really like the Sigma. I have two, the 9VE and the 40VE, both guns are just at about the 4500 round mark without much of a problem at all. I am a big fan of the 1911 design and was going to carry one for CCW, but weight is a factor. I use as my carry gun my Sigma 40VE loaded with 16 135gr Triton Quik Shok's, I trust my life to this gun. :)

[Chemistry]

That "stench" comes from the agreement that Smith and Wesson and their former CEO, Ed Schultz, signed with the KGB (Klinton Gore Bunch).

Smith and Wesson, while they make fine revolvers, has not exactly been the uppermost echelon in terms of quality control when it comes to their semiautomatic pistol line. Take a look at the SW 99, which *is* almost an identical copy of the Walther P99.

The Walther P99's are quite reliable, whereas the S&W SW99 have so many flaws, that the NJSP dropped them in favor of Sig P228's.

[9x19]

In as few words as possible:

Design vs. Execution

So it is in lots of areas...

The Communist Doctrine isn't a bad theory, it's execution per Joseph Stalin left a lot to be desired.

Democracy, as professed by the ancient Greeks, isn't a bad theory either... the Constitutional Republic version we have in this country, with Repesentatives that often aren't... could certainly be better.

[Tropical Z]

The reason i started this thread,was because i saw a nice used Sigma at a local shop and the guy there said it was an identical mechanical copy of the Glock.He used the lawsuit as proof of that and i didn't know myself.I didn't buy it but was just curious.Thanx

[Coronach]

That would be called 'salesmanship.' Or, if you dislike the Clinton era, 'lying.'

He's trying to move a POS out of his inventory. Don't bite.

Mike

[9x45]

TropZ, just have the dude pull the top end of both the Sigma and any Glock. Then check it out side by side for yourself! In my opinion, a typical gun dealer. They don't shoot, they don't compete, and they don't know anything about either. It's like saying a Charles Daly is the same as a Les Baer or STI...

[blades67]

It's like saying a Charles Daly is the same as a Les Baer or STI...

Well, a Charles Daly is the same as a Les Baer or STI...all are 1911's. Also, if you put 1800$ into a Charles Daly it'll shoot just like a Baer, though it may not last as long. The same can't be said of a Sigma shooting like a Glock.:rolleyes:

[Coltdriver]

The newest Sigma's work just fine.

The early ones earned the gun a deserved bad reputation.

But the trigger takes some getting used to, in fact I'd say its the worst trigger I ever encountered.

I had one, put about 1500 rounds through it, worked just fine, never a hick up. But it was the latest version.

Traded it in towards a Browning Hi Power.

Don't miss it at all. Mostly because the trigger was so bad (for me anyway).

But at $250 new it is a good cheap hi cap shooter. You can get 17 or 18 round mags for about $50.00 if you shop

[Tamara]

Knew a gunsmith that used to describe Sigmas thusly: "Oh, they work just fine. Until they break".

The grip on the Sigma is more ergonomic than that of the Glock for most folks, but somehow *&* managed to engineer a more bizarre and unnatural feeling trigger than Gaston Glock; no mean feat. Whoever in Springfield was in charge of designing this abomination of a trigger, repeat after me: "Triggers should NOT have hinges in the middle". :rolleyes: