the mini 30 and it's cartridge

[rr41mag]

OK what's the deal with a mini 30? I keep hearing that they are not very accurate. What is that cartridge they shoot anyway? I have been told it's a .308. Seems to me to be a short .308

[rugerfreak]

Was looking at the Brownells site today and found a service bulletin stating that all post 1993 Mini-30's use the .311-.312 bore like the AK's------1993 manufacture was mixed .308 and .311 and all the earlier models were .308.(bore size)



The cartridge has ALWAYS been 7.62x39.

[MiniZ]

For the accuracy you will get out of a Mini 30, you may as well get an AK47 variant. Mags are MUCH less expensive, and MUCH more reliable. The 7.62x39 cartridge itself is not the problem(although it is not inherently a tack driver), the problem is the barrells on these rifles.

[Buddy Lee]

rr41Mag,

I think you are being confused with the diameter of the bullet and the cartridge itself.

Yes, a Mini-14 shoots a bullet that is the same diameter as a .308 (or very close to it), but it a completely different cartridge. The size of the casing is smaller, the amount of gunpowder is less, etc. The round a Mini-14 shoots is the 7.62x39 cartridge (the numbers are the cartridge's size in millimeters). A round developed by the Russians (at least made popular by the Russians) with the creation of the AK47 and SKS rifles. It is not the same cartridge as a NATO 7.62 or 308.

Since it is not the same cartridge as a 308 and the rifles that shoot these rounds are different, the accuracy of the rounds are completely different. The 308 is a proven accurate round. M14A1s shoot this round. The 7.62x39 is usually fired in much less refined weapons (AKs and SKSs) and thus the round does not have much of a reputation for accuracy. The Ruger Mini series (Mini 14 and Mini 30) are also not known for their accuracy. In the right rifle, the 7.62x39 may be an accurate round...who knows?

Hope this helps.

B.L.

[gunboy 3]

The Mini-14 shoots the .223 or 5.56 cartridge NOT the 7.62. You guys are misleading our friend. the mini-14 has a .22 caliber bore, NOT a .30 cal.
7.62 = .30 caliber.

[rr41mag]

rugerfreak answered my question. I am just not a military rifle type person. I'm still debating the multiple round, auto rifle issue here.

[Deaf Smith]

Ruger Mini-30s have same action pros and cons as the Mini-14. As I have posted before, the problem with accuracy with the Mini series is the GAS BLOCK is not fitted with even pressure around the barrel. Very easy to fix.

The Mini-14 I use puts 10 shot 100 yard groups of 3 inches with apendature sights. That is good enough.

Now, the Mini-30. With scope, GAS BLOCK fixed, expect 2 to 2 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with good ammo. Cor-bon makes a 150gr load at 2400 fps. That is full 30/30 power, plus with spintzer bullets, it outranges the 30/30. It wil make a dandy 200 yard deer gun. It will outperform the .44 mags rifles easly.

I intend, for my next rifle, to get a Mini-30 and refit it just like my 'Micro-14' except with a Ashly rear ghost ring sight and a real good 4 x scope.

I was a doubting thomas as for as Ruger Minis (I own a AR-15 Colt and it will do 1 1/2 at 100 yards all day). But I am now a beliver IF you are willing to do some work yourself. If you are not, get a AR-15 as a gunsmith is kinda expensive.

Deaf

[Buddy Lee]

Gunboy,

Yeah, my mistake. His original question was about he Mini 30 and I just substituted Mini 14 instead. Sorry.

B.L.

[Coop de Ville]

How do you fix the gas block issue? Is this something that one can do on their own, or do you need a smith? I have been looking for a first rifle (an AR), but they are too expensive for me. If the Mini were a bit more accurate (~2") it would be a perfect fit for me...

[Deaf Smith]

Coop de Ville,

To avoid a long winded post, go to www.mini14world.com and check out the pages on accurizing the mini-14 (and 30). It is easy. Embarrisingly easy. That gas block is only 8 pieces of metal (including 4 screws).

Deaf

[Deaf Smith]

Dang, for got to mention, I shot my Micro-14 today. 100 yard 2 1/2 inch groups with Winchester 64 gr power point, but get this, I shot a few IMI SS109 military at 250 yards, barely over one inch!!! I think I found my loads.

Deaf

[Deaf Smith]

Well, I checked my link I posted and all I get is "Monthly transfer limit exceeded! ", whatever that means.

Dang.

I will check tomorrow. I think there are other post on this forum (and Glock.talk) that discuss this. It is very easy to unscrew the thing, clean it, and rescrew using a feeler guage to make sure the gap between the top and bottom have is exactly the same, thus even pressure on the barrel).

If you have ever fired a Mini, and noticed soot comming thru the gas block gap, that is a real poorly fitted block!!!

Deaf

[Deaf Smith]

TUNE YOUR MINI -14 by James Mason
From Guns & Ammo/March 1987

Stock bedding, Trigger group modifications, and sights are the areas that best reward diligent attention.

The Mini-14 gas system uses a hollow, fixed piston though which propellant gases impinge on the operating slide. There is no contained, modulated piston stroke. So, the reaction to the gas pulse induces a slight bending movement on the mid-barrel section-enough to disturb normal barrel vibrational rhythms.

The Mini-14 has a good quality birch stock, which is quite stable, but not overly stiff, due to the thin wall sections around the receiver and fore-end. New guns are factory fitted to provide some stiffness, but after shooting a couple of thousand rounds, setting of parts makes the stock fit a fairly loose proposition. Rebedding can restore that stiffness and assure support for the Mini-14's operating elements.

Trigger pull characteristics on all military rifles leave a lot to be
desired. The safety aspects of two stage pulls need not be sacrificed, but a properly regulated trigger job can produce a 4 to 4 1/2 pound letoff that will do more to reduce the effect of the human factor than anything else, with the exception of a better sight system.

The coarse-adjusted military sight on the factory Mini-14 is suited to the original design objectives of the rifle. It is okay for a rifle
designed to shoot 3 to 4-inch groups. But, adjustment stops and aperture design limit it for more demanding shooting. Millett Sights (16131 Gothard Street, Dept. GA, Huntington Beach, California 92647) understands the needs of more demanding Mini-14 shooters, and have adopted their Series 100 Sight to the Mini-14 and other assault-type rifles. The result is a first-rate replacement peep sight that meets the needs for realizing the performance potential of the Mini-14.

Positive, 1/3-minute click-adjustments on the Millett sight allow for both windage and elevation. A large match-style eyepiece shields the eye from glare. The standard .080-inch aperature (.050-inch is optional) provides a crisp, clean sight picture; the aperature hole is reverse tapered, like top-grade match sights, so no "tunnel effect" distort aperture edges. The Millett sight base fits directly into the Mini-14 receiver and is secured by a single throughpin-a simple, easy installation once the factory sight is removed. The installation makes a handsome complement to the Mini-14 receiver.

The factory Mini-14 front sight blade is an exposed, serrated ramp with a slightly tapered silhouette. There are several possible replacements available for this front sight unit. The Choate front sight and flash hider unit makes a good replacement choice and was installed on our conversion. The Choate front sight blade is a military post with "ears". The flash hider is of the bird cage type, and is solid on the bottom, providing muzzle stability during firing.

A well-bedded stock adds to stiffness and support of the operating elements. While new Mini-14's may fit well, continued firing will loosen up the stock and receiver union. By using a non- shrinking stock bedding compound such as Accraglas glas, support for receiver legs, the operating rod guide channel and the stock ferrule can be reinforced. Dismantling the stock allows removal of the stamped sheet
metal recoil stop that fits inside the receiver magazine opening A thin coat of bedding compound under these supporting structures adds to the stiffness of the midsection of the stock and assures minimal creep of the recoil stops. After treating metal parts with parting compound, lightly apply epoxy to the wood then replace the recoil stop in the stock and tighten the side screws. Let this piece cure overnight.

Next, remove the stock ferrule and the sheet metal action slide guide. Butter the stock seating area for these parts and replace the metal. Again, be sure to coat the metal with parting compound before contacting the bedding compound.

Using silicone parting agent, spray the inside surfaces of the gas piston collar assembly and butter the outer surface of the stock ferrule with compound. At the same time, spray the receiver legs and bottom of the receiver with parting agent. Butter the receiver leg channels in the stock to fill in the area below, in front and to the sides of the receiver legs where they seat in the stock. Assemble the barrel/receiver group in the stock using a large rubber band to hold the stock and receiver together. Let this work cure overnight after wiping off any excess bedding compound that oozes out of joints. A little oozing shows a proper amount of compound; don't overapply, but
use enough to fill all the voids. Failure to use parting agent can
result in embarrassment. You might permanently bond the stock and the receiver together!

Separate the stock the next day, then carefully chisel out any excess ridges on the inside of the stock. Small bubbles in the work may be refilled. Reassemble the stock and insert and secure the trigger assembly. Observe any looseness of the trigger assembly. This may require additional bedding under the flat contact pad on the bottom outside edge near the middle of the receiver.

Use parting agent on the receiver bottom, then apply bedding compound on the stock surfaces adjacent to the receiver pad. Reassemble the rifle, insert the trigger group, but close the trigger guard down only to about 1/2 inch away from its hooking point. Let the epoxy cure, then clamp the triggerguard shut. This technique assured a very solid stock-to-barrel/receiver fit, necessary for consistent shooting accuracy.

Trigger work calls for smoothing burrs and surface roughness off of sear/hammerhook engagement surfaces. First disassemble the trigger group and arrange the parts so hard stoning of the contact areas can be done without altering engagement angles. Dressing hammerhooks and sear surfaces amounts to a few deft strokes only. As a rule, when people feel they have done enough, too much stoning has been
accomplished. Overstoning will reduce trigger pull letoff weight to below 3 1/2 pounds, making trigger release unpredictable in an autoloading rifle. Too light a pull can cause the gun to "double" or "triple" due to the rocking motion of recoil and return-to-battery of the enertia slide. A 4 to 4 1/2 pound pull is ideal with little or no sensation of cheep. The classic two-stage military pull characteristic should definitely be maintained.

A word of warning is in order here. Trigger adjustments demand experience and a definite "feel" for the job. A poor trigger job can ruin an otherwise good rifle. It is possible to make the piece unsafe if the adjustment is botched. Amateurs who may do other gunsmithing perfectly well may have no particular skill at trigger adjustment. Unless individuals are experienced at regulating a trigger pull, the job is best done by a trusted professional. The rewards of a well regulated trigger are essential for rifle accuracy, so take your Mini-14 trigger group to a competent local gunsmith or put it in a padded mailing envelope along with a check or money order for $35.00
and send it to: Poway Gun Works, 13168 Poway Road, Dept GA, Poway, California 92064 to have it done right.

Field testing comes after the bedding, trigger regulation and sight installation. The test rifle was first fired with some surplus Lake City Arsenal '67 vintage ammunition. Center zero was established at 25 yards with intermediate (50 yards) firing and later 100-yard groups fired off the bench. Shooting was done in early morning with very little of no crosswind.

Our early groups were erratic and disappointing, but, as firing
continued, the rifle settled into its bedding and groups converged on zero. Early cold-barrel groups were respectable in the 2-3 inch size. But groups "walked" with a vertical string as the barrel heated up. Once the bedding was seated and the gun heated uniformly, the best groups appeared.

After things settled down and became consistent, a switch to Remington .223 commercial ammunition produced groups up to the full potential of the gun. The best six-round group measured 1.6 inches at 100 yards. It would be good to try Winchester and Federal Commercial loads in individual guns to observe the result. None of these brands were available on our test day, however. Nobody can complain about 1 1/2 minutes of angle with a Mini-14!

The Choate front sight is investment cast and the top post corners are very slightly rounded. Flat filing squares up the post. Millett's sight base with the Choate post combination made the gun shoot high-about 12 inches high at 100 yards. Millett has since modified their base to correct for this.

Bedding effects are intrinsic to such good groups. But the trigger job and crisp, effective Millett sights were appreciated as aids to practical accuracy. Shooter confidence imparted by this tuning was evident shortly after firing began.

Custom handloads would probably shrink groups further, but the effects would not necessarily contribute as much as if the loads were fired in a bolt-action rifle. The need for cannelured bullets and crimping with self-loading ammunition, along with loose chamber dimensions of self-loader, limits accuracy contributions of carefully assembled custom loads in the Mini-14.

So, there it is! An attainable project for the Mini-14 owner who wants to get the most out of his rifle.

[Deaf Smith]

Gas Block Lapping On my mini, I lapped the gas block assembly to a piece or stainless round stock turned to the diameter of the barrel, and then torqued the gas block assembly to the barrel. Originally, when I hooked the stock into the gas block, the rear of the receiver was raised up off of the stock by approximately 1/8 inch. This was caused by both the stock and the hand guard. I trimmed the hand guard, and also removed the rim and retaining tabs from the lower portion of the gas block. The hand guard now just sits on the barrel and other than the charging handle/gas piston (when the bolt is closed) nothing else touches the barrel. I am now getting what I consider very good groups for this rifle.

Rim Modifications One of the things that I did to modify my gas block was to remove the rim and 3 lugs where the stock fits into the gas block. I subsequently added portions of the rim back onto the outer edge of the gas block, being careful to maintain a clearance around all edges of the stock. So far my best 100 yd sand bagged iron sight group with this rifle has been .75" x 1.25" using Federal 69gr Match ammo.

More Gas Block Lapping The idea presented here works! It has literally cut group sizes nearly in half on many of the guns we have done it to and it requires no gunsmithing services. The gas block assembly at the forward part of the forend, which is held together with four screws from the underside, is the focus of our attention. Remove the four screws, and then remove the top part of the gas block. Then remove about .030" of metal from the mating surface of that block by running it over a piece of plate glass or plate iron (a very flat very stable surface) covered with 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper. By removing the metal from the mating surface you create the necessary gap for tuning, as you will see below.   [If there already is an adequate gap, it may not be necessary to remove as much as .030" of material. --PAZ] Now that you have accomplished the removal of approximately .030" from the upper gas block assembly, reassemble the unit with this procedure. When tightening the four screws, use an inch/lb. torque wrench to VERY UNIFORMLY tighten them all with the same torque [I believe 16 INCH-pounds is the proper value--PAZ], and simultaneously use a feeler gauge to make sure that the gap between the block halves is uniform side to side as they are torqued down.This little procedure puts pressure on the barrel from the gas block very uniformly, and equalizes that pressure, especially as the barrel heats up from repeated firing. Simple as it sounds, it works! No, maybe not a complete cures all, but certainly a no cost enhancement.

Improve fit of stock around gas block I'm writing this, because I think I've discovered something that could greatly improve the accuracy of the mini-14. A friend of mine has a mini-14 standard, and I went out and bought a Ranch rifle. At the sand pits, his gun out shot mine. At 100 yrds his gun shot a 2" group, and mine about a nine inch. (terrible) I checked his gun out to check on the fit of the stock compared to mine, and I noticed that where his stock went into the gas block it would insert easier than mine. I had to force the end of the stock into the gas block, and then down into the remaining stock. I filed the steel ring around the end of my stock so it would fit the gas block easier. I have a fit now that inserts easily, and falls into the rest of the stock by itself. There is no play after the stock is seated. If you were to get carried away with filing, I imagine things would get worse. My accuracy improved to a 1 to 2" group at 100 yards. We filed his stock at the end just slightly, and improved its accuracy too.

More on the same issue I got the idea of filing the steel ring, because my of my Steyr-Mannlicher target rifle has a completely floating barrel. The barrel never touches the stock, but the stock is screwed to the receiver. Well the Mini-14 has no such attachment to the receiver, so I didn't want to loosen the stock too much. When I had inserted the end of the stock into the gas block on the Mini, and then forced it into the stock I figured it had to be distorting the barrel. And It has improved accuracy remarkably. It's an inexpensive fix, and my friends rifle now shoots under 1/2" group at 100 yards. Mine is still not that good, but under 2".