9x23 vs. 38 super

[KelTeKee]

I had an interesting question, well maybe. What is the Overall length comparison between the 9x23 and the 38 super. What brought this question up is that i have a stainless barsto 38super barrel for a p220sig and finally found some of this 9x23 ammo (largo?). so I was messing around and dropped a round into the barrel and the round seems to be flush where it's supposed to be. Are the two rounds the same length? CAn't find alot of stuff about 9x23. Only thing I ran across was that some shop was doing a conversion on springfields, eaa witnesses, and yes the p220. Can't friggin find that site again but anyway.

Also what is the power difference? Is 9x23 the best 9mm? I like 9mm variants and curious. My favorrite at the moment is 357sig ala 226,229,239,G33.

Thanks folks!!!

[Robert the41MagFan]

Without the slide for the P220 in 38 Super, the barrel alone is useless. The extractor is different and so is the hole size for the barrel. The ejector and spring are also different. And you will also need the magazines.

Now you mentioned "Largo". Although this was the basis for the 9x23 and 9 Super Comp, both these cartridges have thicker webbing and heavier construction than the Largo cartridge and can handle heavier load. All three cartridges will not head space in a 38 Super chamber because the cases are .010" longer than that of the 38 Super. Then there is also the extractor problem. Case rim on the 38 Super is .406" and 9X23 is .389" and the Largo is .392" in diameter.

Only brass that will chamber properly in a 38 Super is 38 Super Comp, which is the same as case, but rimless. Extractor may not work well though.

Robert

http://www.teleport.com/~ralfonso/Sig%20P220s.JPG

[KelTeKee]

Robert:
Thanks, you answered many questions for me. I do need a slide, know where I might find one? I do have the mags. I got those a while back. Just found the barrel last year. ANyway, I am still interested in what a 38 super/? p220 would be like. I just bought a box of some largo ammo from the local show. I never see it around the bay area (SF). Can't use it quite yet obviously but I'm trying my hardest to find me some more parts. It does fit fine in the 38 super mags.

ARe you a 38 super fan? I have never dealt with this cartridge. Thanks again...
DaNN

[Casey]

I don't know much about the 9x23 Largo, but I do own a Colt 1991 that was purchased in 38 Super that I had converted to 9x23 Win.

The 9x23 Win packs a lot of punch, and due (I guess) to the tapered case, it provides excellent feed reliability. I have several thousand rounds through my Colt without a single failure.

It is very accurate. I had my conversion done by a 9x23 Win guru, Dane Burns, who put a Bar-Sto barrel in along with performing other work, so maybe my Colt's accuracy is due in part to his work. However, most others I have talked to feel the round is one of those that is just naturally accurate.

As I reload, I am able to tailor my rounds to what I want. The round is capable of quite impressive performance. I have loaded some 125gr jacketed rounds to well over 1700 fps, using the very good Winchester 9x23 Win brass.

A good place for information is Dane Burn's web sight. It is "http://www.burnscustom.com/". There is also a good forum that you could ask questions and lots of people shoot this caliber. It is "http://www.pistolsmith.com/"

Casey

[popeye]

Is not 9mm Largo 9x21, same as 9mm Bergman? I,ve got a Star model super layin around here somewhere and it's Largo 9x21.

[TMC]

Just my .02

My 1911 pattern racegun has a 38 Super barrel/chamber. I have run 9x23/9 Super Comp and 38 Super cases in it with no problems. Many articles in the IPSC/USPSA arena have been written about the interchangability of these two. Both are a 23mm case. 38 Super will not go in a 9x23 chamber because of the semi-rim but 9x23 will go in a super chamber. Both cases in length and dia are very similar at the min/max tolerances. If the extractor is set for a 9mm case it my not chamber the round, conversly if it is adjusted for 38 Super it may not function every time. Loading is another issue.

All of these cartirdges in factory form were design for unsupported chambers but loading Super cases to IPSC major or factoy 9x23 levels should only be fired out of fully supported chambers. One other aspect of 9x23. The round was designed around lighter bullets and the case has thick walls. You will run into problems seating longer heavier bullets due to this thickness. Check out Bruns Customs as Casey suggested for good info on 9x23.

In my experience with brass I have found that Hornady 38Super TJ is the best. It does not taper like 9 Super Comp and thus stacks and comes out of the mags better than any other case I've tried. The slight taper of 9 Comp seems to curve the rounds in the mag and puts more pressure on the base. Reg. 38 Super rims seem to get stuck in the extractor grove on the next round. This gets to be an issure loading 28 round hi-cap mags. Anyway I hope some of this rambling helps.

[Robert the41MagFan]

I'm in pretty good at SIG and other than sights and magazines, there are no parts in 38 Super for the P220 for public sale. I've been trying to get a P220 (American) chambered in 30 Luger for a while and have had no luck. All there is available in P220's is 45acp, 9mm and 38 Super. Seen some 30 Luger conversion kits, but they are very expensive and hard to find. Never seen a 38 Super conversion. And the complete guns I've seen are either shot out or the seller wants a mint for them.

Have only had the 38 Super gun for a few months, but I'm extremely impressed with what I have seen so far. Of all three offering in the P220, it is the most accurate, but with the alloy frame, it is also the most ferocious when it comes to recoil. I can soon see it becoming my favorite auto cartridge. Right now it is still 10mm/40S&W.

Did consider at one time in converting the gun to 9x23, but think that a 1911 is a better platform for the cartridge due to its all steel construction and availability of parts for any type of retrofit.

Good luck in your search. Putting these things together is half the fun.

Robert

[wishbone]

The LARGO and 9x23 are not the same--Anything you may want to know about the 9x23 can be answered by JOHN at http://www.classicpistol.com. Great guy. He developed the 9x23 round.

[Drundel]

I was looking on the CZ-52 page for parts and they have a 9x23 Largo barrel listed. So typo?

[KelTeKee]

wishbone: Thanks for that link...that was the link I lost that listed the p220 as a good project. Now if I could only find a slide...

Robert: Sounds like I'lll have to keep lookin. Every once in a while at the reno gun shows, I see a few 38 super p220's, I might have to talk a guy down and grab one of those. I also hear that they are popular south of the border. I read that somewhere. I might even have to take a trip down there. I will however consider a 1911 project to handle this round. Thanks a bunch.

popeye: couldn't dig up the specs for largo but I think it is the same. My memory fails me, but I read it in combat handguns or some mag like that...

Casey: your experience is what I want to experience because I have heard the same comliments on the 9x23. 357mag auto without having to buy an ugly desert eagle.

Long live the 9mm

[Kaliburz]

Well, this reply is prob a few years short....and only found it accidentally since I was searching for CZ52 info....


The P220 was chambered in 45 ACP, 38 Super, 9mm Luger (and I think 30 Luger). If you find a 9mm gun (usually w/ the heal mag release), you should be able to drop your 38 Super barrel right in as "most" 9mm slide work w/ 38 Super.

Another option, is to use 38 TJ brass. It doesn't require a new barrel. The TJ rounds are webbed like the 9x23 Winchester. I'm planning to do that if I want hot 38 Super loads for my Para LDA that I just finished. OH, the recoil in a P220 38 Super isn't that bad. I've shot a Super in a 1911 using 'old' ammo and that stuff was fast compared to todays loading.

The P220 Supers should be out there. A few years back, they popped up online every few months. I actually have 2 of them....