Night Sights - Are There Any Drawbacks ?

[Mike H]

Is it worth having night sights fitted to a home defence/concealed carry handgun or are there some drawbacks ?

I have read some reports that have mentioned that some of these sights are difficult to pick up in daylight because of the materials used, is this true ?

Advice appreciated.

Mike H

[CD1]

MikeH,

I've got Sigs night sights on my P220. They glow great at night, piece of cake using them. During daylight you can't see the tritium inserts but you can still use the sights with no prob. Most of my shooting is done under conditions where I can't see the tritium inserts and I shoot very well using these sight.

CD out.

[George Hill]

They lose the glow between 5 to 10 years...
So they will eventually have to be replaced.

[Mike H]

I guess my primary concern is sight acquisition during daylight shooting, IMO you can't beat nice bright white dots, just wondered if anyone had experienced difficulties with this, especially with SIG's as mentioned by CD1.

Regards,

Mike H

[IanS]

I've got Mepro night sights and they are easier to see in daylight (and of course at night) than any stock sights from Glock, Sig, Beretta, HK, Browning, et al. Even if they loose their luminicity I can still use them as good standard sights.

Trijicons on the other hand are more difficult to see in daylight.

Of course check them out and see for yourself. YMMV

[Onslaught]

Yeah, get the Mepros... The have the Big white dots you're looking for in the daytime, and they glow at night.

As for drawbacks, I would imagine only Military Covert Ops, MAYBE SWAT during night drug raids would be the only people to have any danger of drawbacks... Being that they might be spotted creeping up to the target.

[proximo]

I have Trijicon sights on a sig 239, Meprolights on a Kimber and Heine Straight Eights on a Glock 19. By far, the Heine's are the best. They are plenty bright (but the Mepros are brighter) and the "dot over dot" makes it very fast to get a sight picture, even with little practice. I find the other night sights to take at least twice as long to line things up.

[LawDog211]

I like night sights but have never considered them "Must Have" in training with them they are harder to see in the daytime then regular 3 dot sights at night they are great for 1st shot acqusition but it dont matter much after the 1st shot because you will be night blinded :cool: by the muzzle flash, but deff big diff for that 1st shot

[Michael]

One of the least discussed drawbacks to the use of night sights is in the way the human eye functions. Night vision uses rods, daylight uses cones (I think I got that right).

When you aquire a target at night with the naked eye, then toss a bright set of tritiums in front of it, the target goes away because the eye has switched from rods to cones, washing out the target to focus on the sights.

If you're going to use tritiums, use the front sight only as it's farthest away from the eye and diminishes this effect to some degree. Go outside on a dark night and try this out on something other that a white target and you'll understand what I'm trying to explain.

As to tactical use.....if the other guy has NVG all you are is a target indicator............:)

[Gewehr98]

If it's too dark to see your sights, how are you supposed to positively identify your target?:confused:

[CD1]

gweher,

Good observation. The night sights are great for low light, ie dusk, parking lots at night, some homes at night have enough light to ID targets. For dark environments (vs low light) a flashlight attached to your weapon or held in conjunction (weak hand) with your weapon is needed to ID a possible target. Tonight go outside with a pistol with regular sights. Toward dusk there is plenty of light left with which to see, but the sights on your gun will be very difficult to use. Hunters using open sights know this very well, you can't hunt the last fifteen to twenty minutes of legal light because your sights disappear. Try it, you'll be surprised.

[Double Naught Spy]

Gewehr98, your comment is one that is frequently brought up about night sights, but it is also a very simplified problem that does not represent very well what you can expect in real life. In the dark, there are various kinds of darkness. CD1 mentioned 'low light" and low light is probably an apt description. However, darkness is rarely uniform. You can be standing under the limbs of a shade tree, at night, and not be able to see your own hands, but you can make out and even recognize people who are 10-20 feet away, but not under the tree's branches. They are being illuminated by starlight and/or maybe a nice sliver of moon.

This type of situation can happen around buildings, awnings, overhangs, being inside something like a home's garage and looking out toward the street, etc.

So, there are a variety of times when you can see your target, but can't see your hand in front of your face. If you are a night owl person, then you will come to appreciate the benefits of night sights. If you rarely go out at night, then the apparent benefits may be lost on you.

Having a flashlight is a bonus that cannot be overstated, however. At night, you need two things. One is to be able to know where you are aiming your gun (being able to see the sights in other words) and knowing what you are trying to shoot. Night sights will help you with the first condition whether or not you are using a flashlight. A flashlight will help with both, but of course it will also provide a definite indication as to where you are as well.:rolleyes:

[CD1]

DoubleNaught,

Very well said.

[Drundel]

DNS:

Good post, it got me to thinking about NS. Do police agencies require night sights?

[Mike in VA]

I have SIG's night sights on two of my Sigs, they're fine in daylight and useful in low light. I also have an Ashley BIg dot Tritium on my Ultra Carry, I like that one the best. Althought the Sig's take no adjustment, teh Ashley's do take a little (very little) practice, but I think they're great in a low light PD situation. JMHO, M2

[jtduncan]

Reduced front sight visibility since its not all white anymore.

The AO Big dot Tritiums give you great daytime visibility with a night site.

[LawDog211]

Just wanted to note: flashlights mounted on guns look cool. BUT when you hold your gun you hold it in front of you and that puts the light right in front of you, and people will generally shoot at the light, so when they do where they going to hit? You. :) :(

This also applies to the fancy new fangled "hold the small flash light in weak hand while gripping the gun tech", this also puts light right in front of you making you more targetable.

I was taught and always will teach to hold the flashlight in your weak hand with your arm extended as far from your body as possible. This makes your body less of the target, and this tech works well if practiced, your weak hand with the flashlight can be used to counter balance your shooting hand with the gun and help make you more steady then just shooting one handed.

[Skip-2]

I believe there is far too much emphasis put on low-light shooting with a torch.
Let’s look at it this way:
If in a darkened building and you are looking for someone are you likely to have you gun drawn? If you do, it’s likely to be at the low ready.
If you REALLY fear for your life are you likely to have the light on? I don’t think so!
If shots are fired are you likely to keep the light on? I don’t think so!

Special Ops persons do have different requirements.

[CReynolds]

Does anyone have any experience with the Novak bar/dot night sights. I have the Sig Night Sights on my 239 right now, but I am not crazy about them. I am strongly leaning towards the Heinie Straight Eights, but wanted to gather some opinions on the Novaks also.

Any help is appreciated.

Coley

[WalterGAII]

If you're trying to line up white rings in daylight, then you need to get some better training and an understanding of the meaning of "sight picture".

[Coop57]

I had Trijicons on my Glock 17. Great for night time but no good for target shooting - IDPA. Black back and front from Heine is best for seeing tan targets quickly.

[VictorLouis]

"...it dont matter much after the 1st shot because you will be night blinded by the muzzle flash, but deff big diff(sic) for that 1st shot".

I don't find this to be the case at all when there is at least SOME sort of ambient light around.:) I'm talking about streetlights, headlights, neon signs, moon/stars etc.. I confirmed this after shooting in the desert at night with only a starlit sky. Even magnum loads that would be classed as having 'brilliant flash' were not any real impediment. Needless to say, the lower flash ammo could barely be noticed from BEHIND THE GUN, which is(DUH) where you'll be.:D

I think the deafening muzzle blast is far more a of concern. Let's hope that Mother Nature kicks in auditory exclusion if it should ever come to that.

[BAD_KARMA]

George I think 5-10 years is not right. The half-life of tirtium is 12 years so assuming you get fresh sights. they will be 1/2 as bright 12 years from now. they will be 1/4 as bright in 24 years and 1/8 as bright in 36 years.

5 year old night sites would be 20% dimmer than new.

of course everybodies eyes are differnt so personal comfort levels will vary.

[Onslaught]

LawDog,

Not a flame Sir, I just politely disagree with the statement that a weapon mounted flashlight makes you any more of a target than any other type of flashlight if you don't use it cautiously, intelligently, and sparingly.

You are obviously a very experienced LEO, and you do have very good observations.

When apply these discussions SPECIFICALLY to the homeowner, then the NiteSites on top of, say, my HK USP45 with UTL attached, it's not nearly the issue you're referencing.

In your home, in the middle of the night, you will be able to see an intruder's outline, because your eyes are adjusted at that time, your walls are light in color, and there are always clocks, VCR's, moonlight, streetlight, the nitelite in your bathroom, etc. My UTL would be used to ILLUMINATE the intruder, NOT to find him. The light will help me to positively identify an immediate threat and decide whether or not to shoot. I see gun, I see move, I pull trigger.

When I was in college some 10 years ago, my Criminal Justice teacher always said that "old school" police tactics were to hold your 3-5 DCell light out far to the side of your body. Since ALL police officers were using this technique, criminals learned to shoot to the left of the light. Also, holding the light only some 3 feet to either side of your body is enough to make you a target, since we're not talking about accurate shooting here. Nervous, unaimed fire can EASILY vary by 3 feet or more. It doesn't matter where you hold your flashlight, you are a target when it is on. Best to learn when and how to use that flashlight, rather than where to hold it in relation to your body.

FWIW, the tactical "surefire in the offhand" hold is quite practical and useful, but only when you're currently aiming at the suspect. Otherwise, the flashlight usually gets operated in the same way as any other light... Left hand, about shoulder height, quick on and off to light dark areas.


Thank you for your time.

[JerryM]

I need a bright front sight for my old eyes to pick up. Night sights don't have enough space above the insert to paint the sight. I wish someone would make a night sight that was blaze orange and then put inserts in it. I have night sights on one gun, but don't have them on any others because of the visibility problem during the day.
Jerry