Shotguns and Bears

[PreserveFreedom]

Some people agree that the shotgun is the most versatile all around firearm. You can get a load for almost any situation and they all feed reliably. If you were carrying a 12 ga Mossberg 500 in bear country, what would you use for your carry load? Would you alternate your rounds or keep them all the same? Would you consider magnums or stick with standard to keep your capacity high? I am under the impression that a tube full of Federal HydroShok Magnum slugs would be the best for bear. Am I wrong?

[Dave McC]

There's lots of options on this, and more opinions than Doyles in Boston.....

No bear expert, but some of the folks I know are, including one who got chewed up rather thoroughly a few years back. Weapon of choice seems to be a pump loaded with Brennekes, 00 or alternated both. 2 3/4" loads predominate.

It t'were me, I'd be packing my HD 870 w/ 18" bbl, big aperture peep sights, extended mag, with the first couple up Rottweil Brenneke slugs, backed by some 00.And, if it hits the fan with a carnivore the size of a Buick, I'd be going for brain shots....

[PJR]

My 18" 870 is a regular companion when I'm on a fishing trip in bear country. It's usually loaded with 6 Brennekes but sometimes I alternate the slugs with 3" Remington Premium copper-plated 000. The issue is penentration. If attacked I want a load that will shatter the bears shoulder or skull.

The odds on a bear attack are greatly reduced by keeping your food off the ground and away from your sleeping area. Don't clean your fish near where you sleep is just common sense. Bears are curious but timid animals. Make lots of noise and they will usually steer clear.

Stay very quiet but be ready to go to Condition Red if you see a sow with cubs. If a bear attacks while you or someone else are in a sleeping bag, it is doing so because it has deemed you to be food. Kill it immediately and then curse the SOB who decided to hand feed it thereby educating the bruin to associate the human smell with food. A fed bear is a dead bear.

Paul

[Dave3006]

PJR, you sound like you know what you are talking about. I know this is off topic a little, what do you think about the various pepper sprays on the market for bear protection?

Dave

[PJR]

Dave3006

Just to establish that I'm no expert on bears. I've never hunted them, nor have I shot one. I see them occasionally in the Northern Ontario bush but haven't been in a situation where shooting was justified. That said, I like to have the 12 just in case. I like the Brennekes because of their performance on deer. Just this week, a young man was killed in the Yellowknife NWT area by a black bear.

As for the OC spray, I've never carried it but I suppose in the absence of a firearm (say in a National Park for example) it would be better than fending off a charge with your bare (bear? :D ) hands. I would want the largest container I could get with the longest distance stream I could find.



[Edited by PJR on 06-06-2001 at 02:03 PM]

[motorep]

An acquaintance of mine teaches the "bear school" for USGS, for their people who work in bear country, primarily Alaska. They only allow shotguns with slugs, no big bore pistols, no buckshot. Their teaching is based on their data from real life people/bear interactions....

[johnbt]

The following is not a recommended method.

My father, uncle and grandfather killed a medium-sized Virgina black bear with birdshot in 1955. They didn't want to, but they were going up narrow logging path (as wide as a horse) next to the little creek and the bear was coming down the hollow. They were only out for a walk for a little peace and quiet after a big Saturday lunch with all of the relatives.

My grandfather's little dog Sparky got into it and the bear went into the creek and started batting at them up over the knee-high bank. To jump ahead, three men from W.Va. had been after him for a couple of days.

Anyway, my grandfather had his old hammered 12ga., my father his Winchester Model 12 20ga. and my uncle a 12ga. Wingmaster. I think all they ever bought for small game was number 6, but I was 5 then so what do I know? I don't know how many shots it took either(I'll ask), but the story they tell is that it took most of what they had.

So they went for one of the plow horses and pulled the bear down the hollow, through the apple orchard and back to the barn. Of course, the entire family had heard the racket and gathered round.

A bit later the 3 bear hunters showed up and they were angry about "their bear." Fair's fair, but my grandfather owned the land to the top of the mountain and what are you going to do with an angry bear anyway.

So these 3 armed hunters are ranting and raving in front of women and children and my dad called time out.
The hunters looked at him as if he were nuts, but they finally shut-up while he went into the house. When he came out he was wearing his hat and sidearm. He was a Virginia State Trooper.

They gave the hunters the bear. They really didn't want to shoot it and had no use fot it. Yeah, sure, I know, bear tastes good. Another uncle shot the largest bear west of the Blue Ridge in 1963 - I know what that one tasted like.

Fried squirrel? Yum. Quail? Delicious. Turkey? My dad shot two with two shots one day with that 20ga. Of course, my uncle still claims he got one of them. We were small game hunters.

Is this talk of food making anyone else hungry?

John

[PreserveFreedom]

The reason I ask is...
Before, I figured that as long as you had a nice quality 44 Magnum wheelgun, you could handle any situation. Now, my fiance and I are looking into the future. We would some day like to drive to Alaska. Driving there means no handguns through Canada because I don't know anyone with special powers there. We are planning on bringing Ruger's 44 Magnum Deerfield carbine (semi-auto and holds 4+1) and a Mossberg 500. It looks like slugs will be the best bet, although it might be worthwhile to put a round of good 000 buck toward the front...maybe the second round.

[CoyDog]

Preserve freedom: I suspect any 12 Gauge slug would work, but those that offer the most penetration are preferred. CNS disruption is the key. The Rotweil Brenneke is known for penetrating well, and the new Winchester Supreme Sabot looks promising. It has a 385 grain Partition Gold bullet at 1900 fps. Unfortunately, neither of these were accurate in my gun. I'm currently using Federal Sabot Slugs with a rifled choke tube for bear protection.

Many people in Wyoming carry OO or OOO buckshot. I know a guy who killed a charging grizzly with OO buck. It took several shots, but he lived to tell the tale.
Good Shooting, CoyDog

[Dfariswheel]

An old lumberjack told me that years ago, (read non-PC times) they loaded shotguns with BIRDSHOT. The idea was not necessarily to kill the bear, just make him leave you alone. They would (in his words) "shoot dat bear in da face and eyes until he leave you be, or go blind". Den he no trouble you no more".
I would NOT recommend this today.

[Cosmoline]

I live in Alaska, and my current favorite hiking piece is in fact a Mossberg 500A. For a few years before I got it a construction outfit used it for bear defense on bush jobs. Before that it was a squad car gun, so it's had quite a history. I load it with 3" slugs in front and a few shells of buckshot to finish whatever might be left. One big advantage of a shotgun is you can keep some 12 Ga. flares and other specialty shells in your emergency kit.

For green alert situations, I keep it in a special backpack scabbard I've rigged. It works great, and makes the shotgun seem weightless. I've attached a leather strap to the stock, and have the strap hanging over my shoulder while hiking so I'm always able to find the stock by feel. It takes me only a few seconds to bring it up and out--faster than it took me to unholster my Super Redhawk when I carried that.

[PreserveFreedom]

The Rotweil Brenneke is known for penetrating well, and the new Winchester Supreme Sabot looks promising. It has a 385 grain Partition Gold bullet at 1900 fps.
Dayum! Is that a 2¾" cartridge?

[johnbt]

Winchester Supreme Partition Gold Slug.

I just looked it up - 2.75" it is. 385 grains at 1900fps.

JT

[CoyDog]

Preserve Freedom: Yes, it is a 2 3/4 Magnum round, and it kicks like a pissed-off mule! They are advertised to serve up 3086 foot pounds, which is in 45/70 territory.

I was all set to use them for anti-bear purposes, but just couldn't get decent groups using a rifled choke tube. I'll bet a fully rifled barrel would be better.
Good Shooting, CoyDog

[Bowser]

I'll chip in with some info.

A friend at the local gunstore doubles as a guide in Alaska a couple of times a year.

A customer shot a charging brown bear 5 times with a .375 H&H magnum, before the guide dispatched it with a .458 Winchester from the side.

Bottom line, use the biggest gun you can (a) afford, (b) hit a bear in the vitals with.

FWIW, he now carries a shortened .416 Rigby as a guide gun when up there.

The bear taken was the 8th largest brown bear shot in Alaska.

B.