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View Full Version : If the majority of Police use Glocks...Arent they good enough for us ??


vyper005
March 4, 2001, 08:29 PM
I think so....All the Federal agencies and Police Departments supposedly conduct very extensive "Torture Tests" and the Glocks usually pass with flying colors...What do you guys think ??

M16
March 4, 2001, 08:47 PM
Most police departments and federal agencies will buy the cheapest product available. It doesn't mean that they are the best. The question is do any of the so-called elite units use Glocks? Not many that I know of.

Oris
March 4, 2001, 08:47 PM
Me thinks those guys just hate to carry an extra ounce of weight all day long...I can understand them perfectly - in the past, when I was carrying AK-47, it was not a lot of fun
to run with it in a "summer time". I would probably prefer to run with M-16, but I would use AK-47 if I sit in a muddy trench...

But Glocks are pretty good overall, little doubt about it.

Ezeckial
March 4, 2001, 08:52 PM
Obviously, cost during initial purchase is a major factor. So is maintainability and longevity.
Glocks are one of the easiest of guns to take down for maintainance.
We've all read of the K-booms in the .40's, but overall, for ease of use...Glocks are sweet guns.
I still think the 9's are the best Glocks.

Christopher II
March 4, 2001, 09:27 PM
Why would you think that the requirements of a police department and the needs of a private citizen would be the same? Police, military, and private citizens have totally different job descriptions, different threats, and different mission requirements. All that adds up to different weapon requirements.

Get the weapon that fits your individual needs, not the weapon that some ultra-sexy elite police/military/SPECWAR unit carries. If that happenes to be the Glock, cool! Glocks are fine guns.

Later,
Chris

aerod1
March 4, 2001, 09:27 PM
NO
Jim Hall

glh
March 4, 2001, 09:28 PM
I have the G36 and the G30 both really great guns..I carry the Kimber Royal Carry...I have owned the Sig P245 the P220
and try as I might I can not seem to stay away from the 1911.

Anyone of the above mentioned are great..but there is something about how the 1911 handles that to me makes it the fastest gun from draw to target of any thing on the market..I am sure others have other views.

Gary

USGuns
March 4, 2001, 09:28 PM
I thought I'd read somewhere that Glock offered the best "volume purchase" deals (practically giving them away to get marketshare) ?
Can anyone confirm?

Given that, I don't think you can use acceptance by Police departments as a gauge of superiority but there's not doubt about it, it's a fine handgun and would serve you well.

Take a look at the Ruger P95/P97 too. :D

9x45
March 4, 2001, 10:54 PM
Oris, you 'carry' an AK-47? As part of what legally gainful employment do you carry an AK-47? And why do you think an AR-15 is easier to 'run with' by your 'preference', Your profile states 'Engineer' Your post states 'make belive' What do you know about Glocks, or any other handgun or long gun?

There is only one reason why US agencies use Glocks, and that is reliability. Period, thats all,

Kevinch
March 4, 2001, 11:28 PM
There is only one reason why US agencies use Glocks, and that is reliability. Period, thats all,

I would, with respect, disagree - mostly with the "Period".

Many agencies are issuing weapons to employess that are not gun enthusiasts. In fact, they may shoot & clean their weapon only when they are required to qualify. A Glock is easy to maintain (no worry about keeping the bluing oiled), simple to operate (can't get much easier to teach than "point, pull trigger"), reliable (they will go "BANG" when the trigger is pulled), and economical to buy.

Sort of like the cars they issue - plain, reliable, & economical. Definitely not high performance, but then again the employees won't get into trouble using them.

We know that some of the "Elite" groups are issued weapons other than DAO handguns - & they are required to undergo more rigorous training.

This is not a knock on Glocks. I don't own one, & don't really have a desire to - but that is personal taste. I can't argue with how appropriate the operating system is for simplicity in training and usage. But if you are an enthusiast, enjoy shooting and practice often, you may get more mileage from another type weapon.

I have hesitated to use this up till now, but here goes:
YMMV.

Shake
March 4, 2001, 11:39 PM
No.

Shake

vyper005
March 4, 2001, 11:43 PM
How come you have no desire to own a Glock?? Have you ever shot one ?? What happened ??

Oris
March 4, 2001, 11:44 PM
9x45, "in the past I was carrying AK-47". In the past
I used to live in the USSR. AK-47 used to be an issue
weapon in the Soviet army. AK-47 is heavier than M-16,
means it's easier to run with it. I used to run with AK-47,
5 km. distance, when I've been trained in the Soviet army. This was not a lot of fun, but nothing I could do about it.
After I stopped running with AK-47, I became an engineer. After I moved to the US, I continued to work as an engineer. I shot Glocks a couple of time, They are indeed good guns and very light in comparison with all steel guns.

Hope I explained it all.

Oris
March 4, 2001, 11:49 PM
9x45, I meant "AK-47 is heavier than M-16,
means it's easier to run with M-16"

Kermit
March 4, 2001, 11:54 PM
I think that any agency will still leave it to the lowest bid. Glocks don't cost that much to manufacture and therefore can lower there bid to ridiculous amounts to look attractive for any department. Private citizens on the other hand can buy whatever the best gun their money can buy.

IanS
March 5, 2001, 01:37 AM
Todays modern automatics made by the big names are some of the finest production pistols ever made. Whether they be Sigs, Beretta, Glock, HK, or Springfield. So its no surprise all of the above brands have been adopted by various agencies across this country. IMHO, all these pisols are fairly equal for combat and police work. How much of an advantage do you think you're gaining by getting a $1000-$2000 gun for defense?

Glocks passed with flying colors in tests and requirements by each respective agency that chose them. If Glock puts it over the top by sweetening the deal then an agency should choose the Glock. And Glocks have been issued to SWAT teams, Germany's GSG-9, and are selected as individual weapons by those in SEAL, SAS, Mossad, et al.; if you need the name dropping.

I feel Glocks have truly proven themselves beyond the price tag. A guns' worth should not be measured by its price. (Case in point the CZ-75, but not for long:() Gun snobs and traditionalists need to accept the fact people choose Glock even though they could have afforded something more expensive.

BK-BHP/1911
March 5, 2001, 02:01 AM
My designation pretty much says the two guns I prefer. However I think Glocks are pretty good guns. I don't like them due to a 'Sproingy' trigger and the grip angle. (they shoot high for me) However even a 1911 diehard like Chuck Taylor has given good reviews for the Glock, they are tough and reliable. If you are one of the people whose hands fit the Glock by all means use it. It's probably got a much longer life than my favorite BHP (Chuck Taylor has put LOTS of rounds through his and it still works)

Kevinch
March 5, 2001, 08:51 AM
How come you have no desire to own a Glock?? Have you ever shot one ?? What happened ??

Got to be honest - no, I never have shot one. That's why I wouldn't try to argue that they aren't reliable, sturdy firearms - everything I read says the opposite. I have read that accuracy is acceptable but not exceptional. But I have never shot a Jennings 9mm, & I know I don't want one of those either. I'm not comparing the 2, just making a case in point.

I have handled them though. I guess they fit my hand OK, but there are 2 features that I just don't like in firearms that apply to the Glock: plastic guns & DAO actions. Maybe for curiosity I'll pick one up some day. I've thought about buying one in the past, but something else has always caught my eye & I go home with it instead.

I am curious though - what do you Glock fans think of the new HS2000? There is an awful lot of chatter about it, and they can be had for under $300. Anybody tried one yet?

J. Parker
March 5, 2001, 10:39 AM
Glocks are good pistols, there's no denying that. They just don't fit my lifestyle or the way I carry my pistols. IMO, Glocks are excellent LE guns because they stay in a rigid holster 99% of the time. I only carry conventional DA pistols. I'll pass on the spastic plastic thank you.:)J. Parker

ckurts
March 5, 2001, 10:46 AM
Didn't the USMC carry the G-21 for a while? I think I saw that bit of info in a gunrag somewhere.

My G-23 would be perfectly suitable for carry, if I did not PREFER a snub nosed revolver or mousegun (NAA mini or Guardian). When I do carry a medium semiauto I PREFER my .45 Colt Commander because I have practiced with it more and am a better shot with it.

I like the Glock and have every bit of confidence in its reliablity and power. I am just not a "natural shot" and it takes me a while to get halfway decent with any handgun

RWK
March 5, 2001, 10:46 AM
Vyper,

Glocks are fine semiautomatics. So are Sigs, H&Ks, Springfields, Kimbers, and several others. The relevant questions are: (a) What's right for you (feel, accuracy, cost, etc.)? and (b) What's right for your intended use?

A recent thread re the Glock 23 provides a fairly representative range of opinions (please see http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=57761). This thread suggests that Glock quality, reliability and durability is excellent, but some of us believe their accuracy is not as good as other first-rate autoloaders.

WalterGAII
March 5, 2001, 10:35 PM
I've never heard that the Marines carried the G21. Carlos Hathcock carried a G21, as his personal firearm, as a matter of choice. Probably, just be cause Glock was low bidder. :)

For the uninitiated. Glocks aren't DAO. That's a misnomer.

PreserveFreedom
March 5, 2001, 11:06 PM
Glock is good enough for me. :)

PBarr
March 5, 2001, 11:17 PM
Hello, Iam new here. I never liked the feel of the Glocks until it tried the Glock 36. It fits my hands fine and shoots strait. I love the 1911 but carry the Glock.

Phil

444
March 5, 2001, 11:35 PM
I wouldn't base anything I bought on what a government agency buys. The points already mentioned are valid as is the concept of kickbacks and government corruption. Another point is keeping up with the Jones'. If "that agency" uses Glocks then we should use Glocks. I work for a public safety government agency and they certainly don't always buy the best there is. I think that the simplicity of the Glock goes a long way in training rookies that have never handled a gun before and probably don't want to now. I also think that the simplicity of the Glock would be an asset in a life or death situation for someone that doesn't practice much so that they can just point and pull the trigger. Finally I think that government agencies buy into the idea that large magazine capacities are good; quantity over quality meaning that more rounds are better than one or two accurate aimed shots. All that being said, I own a Glock and would probably seriously consider carrying it if I was a LEO and had that option. I really like mine and consider it fully as good as anything else I own.

WYO
March 6, 2001, 12:44 AM
I find it humorous that agencies that would have blown a gasket at their officers carrying single action autos with a 5.5 lb. trigger and a frame mounted mechanical safety have embraced the Glock, which in its stock configuration has a 5.5 lb. trigger and no frame mounted mechanical safety unless you include the little insert in the trigger. Part of the reason is that ATF classified the unique trigger mechanism as "double action," which allowed the unions and other high capacity advocates to go to their administrations with the argument that the Glock was just as safe as a revolver but held more ammo. I agree that the Glock is easier to shoot than a revolver or a traditional DA/SA or DAO semi-auto, but that doesn't necessarily make it better. There are a whole range of factors, some of which are general for the agency (such as training issues, cost, trades of existing firearms, politics) and some of which are specific to the characeristics and tastes of individual officers. After a great deal of experimentation I have found other firearms that work better for me. Don't get me wrong, if someone told me that I had to carry a Glock, I would do it without hesitation, but to say that police agencies use them does not mean that everyone else need not look any further.

jtduncan
March 6, 2001, 12:46 AM
First, Glocks are carried by the vast majority of American police agencies, federal law enforcement agencies, special forces groups, and elite forces. Many cop detectives cherish the Glock 27/26 for its small package but 10 round capacity plus one in the tube.

Most FBI, DEA, SS, DOE, EPA, IRS, ATF, Treasury agents including their elite forces carry and use Glocks. One of my best buds is a brick wall of a DEA agent who knocks down most doors without a ram, and his entry teams carry Glock 30s.

While some elite teams like the FBI HRT maybe going for the Springfield 1911 and the Seals may still use the Sig P226, Glocks are their mainstay.

Second, most purchasing depts for the government buy based upon "value" not price alone. For a gun with only 34 parts that is under $500 and known to be accurate and has survived incredible torture tests, what other gun COULD you spend taxpayer dollars on?

Third, for most shooters' needs well beyond self defense/killing zone ranges, there are no finer tanks built than Glocks. Sure a finely tuned Kimber can outshoot a Glock at 45 yards, but experienced shooters will tell you that out to 25 yards they are equally accurate.

Fourth, I've had springs and levers break, slides rust, slide come off when the BG grabbed it, magazines eject in battle, etc in my Kimbers, Sigs, Colts, Berettas, and the like. But never in a Glock. It just broke the part but kept on firing.

Fifth, during the Desert Storm campaign, tons of Glock 21's were shipped to the Middle East for our folks in the armed forces. Nobody else's guns made the must have list. And that is with a Buy American initative imposed on all federal procurements of that size.

Sixth, if you really want to know what the boys in blue want, its an HK MP5 not a pistol. Great for riot control, dynamic entries, and chicks really really dig those guns. Pulse fire baby!

Sure, Glocks may not be the prettiest guns BUT I'd rather survive a gunfight with an ugly gun than die with a nickel-plated pimp gun in my cold dead hand.

I've owned all type of semi-autos, revolvers, .32 acp up to 454 Causall, and if I can only have one gun, it's going to be a Glock!

That doesn't mean that I don't love my HKP7 or my AR-15 though!

jtduncan
March 6, 2001, 12:49 AM
As to training issues, we all know that cops these days are not shooting enthusiasts. Those folks end up be range officers or firearms training instyructors for the agency.

The majority shoot enough to qualify -- that's it.

The majority of the cops are better off with a simple manual of arms holding onto all of the safety rules we all know. Keep your finger off of the trigger.

That's also why Glocks are in the game bigtime. Simple to train on.

vyper005
March 6, 2001, 01:12 AM
Youre right...They say most Policeman are not gun enthusiasts but they use their weapon as just a tool...BTW guys...I like all the major brands of guns....not just Glocks...I'm just saying that Glock has proved time and time again that it is a very reliable and durable pistol...

WoundChannel
March 6, 2001, 08:03 AM
I could afford other models and brands like for example a custom .45, but I choose Glocks. I like them. Its my opinion. They are simple and rugged. 'Nuff said.

J. Parker
March 6, 2001, 10:25 AM
I had a S&W mod 66 that was simple, reliable, rugged, durable, yadda, yadda, yadda. Had it for years. Went everywhere with me. Was exposed to all sorts of conditions. Never skipped a beat. I'd say it was equal or better than ANY Glock ever made. So guys, come back down to earth okay?:)

Double Naught Spy
March 6, 2001, 11:06 AM
I honestly don't understand the point of the question that if most police use Glocks, aren't they good enough for us?

What is the relevance of what the police decide to me and my purchasing decision? Why is it relevant that most police use Glocks to my decision?

vyper005
March 6, 2001, 12:18 PM
you'd be surprised how many people buy the guns their State Police are using...People know that the guns must pass certain tests...

Tropical Z
March 6, 2001, 02:31 PM
I've read to many articles about police departments getting their Glocks free by trading in the old guns currently in use.Are they functional sure, but free is the most important consideration in my opinion.Its a ploy used by Glock to make everyone think their guns are superior.I'll pass!

E. BeauBeaux
March 6, 2001, 02:34 PM
No, and I guess I better leave it at that.

J. Parker
March 6, 2001, 03:25 PM
Double; It's not relevent to me at all. The Glock line of pistols don't fit my mode of carry or my lifestyle. A Glock is supposed to be a holstered pistol. That doesn't work for me. LE doesn't dictate what's best for me. Their needs can certainly be different than mine. Look at the California Highway Patrol. When they chose the S&W 4006 as their issue pistol I didn't rush out and get one. I've owned three Glock's. Two were LEMONS. Just because a department choses a certain pistol doesn't necessarily mean it was a wise decision. Just my thoughts, J. Parker

jtduncan
March 6, 2001, 03:30 PM
The reason civilians follow police gun purchases is because both parties need reliable guns is for SELF DEFENSE AND THE DEFENSE OF INNOCENTS.

As to the HS2000, I havent' shot one but inspected one. No thanks, the fit and finish are just about the same as the Intratec CAT-9 or a HiPoint Compact 9mm. The sights reminded me of those off of an EAA Witness. I don't know much about the company either.

For $350, I'd rather save another $150 a get a Glock, Sig, HK, or the like. I'm worth the extra $150.

automainea
March 6, 2001, 03:53 PM
one big thing to keep in mind,glock was designed as a duty weapon,they say they have three safties but packing a loaded glock is like packing a 1911 cocked and unlocked.i would truely consider this,i am not bashing glocks,i own two,i have heard of many pds that had their officers accidently discharged their glock in the holster and shot theirself but other than that glock is a fine weapon happy shooting

Scooter2
March 6, 2001, 04:10 PM
For LEO, Glocks only cost between $300-400. The hi-cap mags that people spend $100 on, only cost them $17. Now compare to HK's, HK's LEO prices are pretty much the same as civilian prices, a mag still cost $40. It makes sense if you are on a limited budget to go with Glocks.

Canine
March 6, 2001, 04:15 PM
Just curious, why are you content on settling for "good enough"? :rolleyes:

jtduncan
March 6, 2001, 07:45 PM
No police agencies can get their Glocks for free. Myth.

That practice would violate most ethics in procurement laws binding all purchasing professionals.

May they get some form of credits or allowances but freebies no. Many agencies sell to FFL for resale, destroy,m or sell at sheriff's sales themselves.

Next . . .

FireStick
March 6, 2001, 08:40 PM
I, for one, do not care one whit what the police use. The police officers that I have observed are not firearms enthusiasts. As a result, many of them are woefully inadequate at actually hitting the target. If I recall correctly (according to plus-p), police officers missed their target during shooting conflicts with perps about 90% of the time (BEYOND BAD).

Further, it seems that Glock worshipper's think the only "reliable" handgun is a Glock. Well, as anyone with experience can relate, there are plenty of reliable wheelguns and semi-autos. I have never had reliability issues (and MORE importantly ACCURACY probs) with my 1911's, wheelies, Beretta and BHP.

Question: Has anyone ever won a target competition with a Glock? (I don't know the answer, I actually would like to know)

WYO
March 6, 2001, 10:18 PM
I have some comments with respect to an earlier post.

>First, Glocks are carried by the vast majority of American police agencies, federal law enforcement agencies, special forces groups, and elite forces.

Agreed.

>Many cop detectives cherish the Glock 27/26 for its small package but 10 round capacity plus one in the tube.

That is a size/capacity compromise that they have chosen to make, rather than carrying a full size firearm. It is a valid consideration.

>One of my best buds is a brick wall of a DEA agent who knocks down most doors without a ram, and his entry teams carry Glock 30s.

I do not see how this makes Glocks better, although it is a personal recommendation of a particular entry team that should be considered.

>Second, most purchasing depts for the government buy based upon "value" not price alone. For a gun with only 34 parts that is under $500 and known to be accurate and has survived incredible torture tests, what other gun COULD you spend taxpayer dollars on?

I think there's a little more to it than that. There are training, ammo and transition costs. There are litigation and judgment costs that often are not considered.

>Third, for most shooters' needs well beyond self defense/killing zone ranges, there are no finer tanks built than Glocks.

Maybe. They certainly are up there with the best.

>Fourth, I've had springs and levers break, slides rust, slide come off when the BG grabbed it, magazines eject in battle, etc in my Kimbers, Sigs, Colts, Berettas, and the like. But never in a Glock.

You are luckier or more skillful than me.

>Fifth, during the Desert Storm campaign, tons of Glock 21's were shipped to the Middle East for our folks in the armed forces. Nobody else's guns made the must have list.

The military has ammunition constraints that civilians and police agencies largely do not have. That limits firearms choices right from the start. I also should add that the public trough from which government feeds is usually deeper than the ammo budget of most non-LEO people, and Glocks may have a particular problem in that regard.

>Sixth, if you really want to know what the boys in blue want, its an HK MP5 not a pistol. Great for riot control, dynamic entries, and chicks really really dig those guns.
Pulse fire baby!

Actually, an MP5 is a firearm that shoots a pistol cartridge at a high cyclic rate of fire. I would prefer a rifle cartridge, or just give me a Remington 870 with slugs if I can't have that. I really don't care what chicks dig. (I'm just poking fun here, because I'm sure it was meant in jest.)

>I'd rather survive a gunfight with an ugly gun than die with a nickel-plated pimp gun in my cold dead hand.

I agree 1000%. I also agree with the converse, that I would rather survive a gunfight with a nickel-plated pimp gun than die with an ugly tank of a perfect gun in my cold dead hand.

>I've owned all type of semi-autos, revolvers, .32 acp up to 454 Causall, and if I can only have one gun, it's going to be a Glock!

Wow, that's a tough call. My choice might be a Glock, but it also could be a .357 mag revolver or a .44 mag revolver. Glad I don't have to make a choice!!!!

>As to training issues, we all know that cops these days are not shooting enthusiasts.

That is a good reason why the decision that an LE agency makes should not be an automatic reason to adopt a specific firearm.

All of the points made are entirely valid, but they do not require a specific choice as a matter of general principle. If we went back to 1985 and relied entirely on what LE agencies were using, Glocks wouldn't even be considered. Every person has to work out their own salvation. While the choice that an LE agency makes is a valid consideration, it is not the only consideration. Popularity polls do indicate preference, but that does not automatically make them correct.

M16
March 6, 2001, 10:30 PM
Just a slight correction. The Glock Model 26 has a magazine capacity of ten rounds. The Glock Model 27 has a magazine capacity of nine rounds. I know. picky picky picky.

WESHOOT2
March 7, 2001, 08:39 AM
I get it; this is a tongue-in-cheek question, right?

Because knowledgeable shooters use something else, unless they just need a shooting appliance.
You know, something to throw under the car seat, something that they don't really care about.

Right?

Because real shooters use a 1911, or SIGs, or H&Ks, or some other brand we can brag about LOL.

Most cops could care less about their gun.

RazorsEdge
March 7, 2001, 12:08 PM
Carlos Hathcock carried a Glock? If he did, it wasn't in Vietnam!!!!!


Glocks are my main belt guns now though I am currently going Kel-Tec for CCW.

For Glocks, the virtues outweight the vices.

TURN-ONS: Lightweight, reliable, accurate, and cheap to manufacture. (Same technology in a Glock frame as in a 2 liter Coke bottle.)

TURN-OFFS- GRIP ANGLE IS WRONG!!! Under adrenaline rush, grip it hard and it inclines skyward (for me, anyway).

Still have doubts about reholstering on rainy night carrying clipboard, flashlight, Dunkin Donuts and blowing big toe off.

Plastic sights suck, should not be issue.

SUMMARY-

Ain't nothing perfect but Glock gets job done. And it bears repeating, LIGHT WEIGHT!!!

jtduncan
March 7, 2001, 03:00 PM
WYO: I like your style.

And BTW: Glocks are combat guns, not target pistols. The 1911-style 45 is the best toy for that game.

automainea
March 7, 2001, 03:03 PM
i would like to hear the rest of the story where you lost your slide when the bg grabbed it,what type of weapon did you have and how did you stop him?

Elmo
March 7, 2001, 04:11 PM
Cops use Glocks. That's good enough for me.

On a related note -- I just sold my wife's Mitsubishi and my pickup. I bought two Crown Victorias to replace them.

Coop57
March 7, 2001, 05:08 PM
Glock would have never become so popular with LE and civilians if they were not excellent weapons. Love em or hate em. They are the best all around pistol.
Yes there are pistols that:
Cost less
More accuarate
Better looking
Better trigger

But most of these pistols:
Cost more
Harder to train large groups with
Heavier
Less reliable
Less durable
Pain to repair

Glocks are the ultimate compromise in the many pistols that are available.

RazorsEdge
March 7, 2001, 05:15 PM
One other BIG THANG about Glocks.

Corrosion resistance!!!!


I lived for ten years about 30 yards from Long Island Sound. Salt air did number on blue steel guns. If you didn't relube every two weeks, there was real danger of rust.

I had Glocks I carried next to skin IWB, and sweat on in buckets. Nary a speck of rust.

WESHOOT2
March 7, 2001, 05:54 PM
Coop57,


Glocks are good, but I can't imagine anyone believing that they're the best....

Tamara
March 7, 2001, 08:16 PM
Saying "A Glock is the best pistol" is as silly as saying "A screwdriver is the best tool".

RazorsEdge
March 7, 2001, 08:27 PM
The perfect pistol would be a CZ 75 with decocker that only weighs 16 ounces.

Charmedlyfe
March 7, 2001, 10:15 PM
OK, time to bust some bubbles....

I was involved in T&E/Procurement for my old department. We did end up selecting Glocks, but not for these STUPID reasons people are giving....

We tested the HK, the Glock, and the SIG against the then-current issue Sigma 40cal. The HK was (by quite a bit) the top performer, with Sig coming in second. The Glock came in THIRD. We got the Glocks because of the deal they gave us, and for NO OTHER REASON. It met minimum requirements, and Glock was willing to take our Sigmas and our adjudicated weapons in trade for the Glocks. HK wouldn't deal AT ALL, neither would SIG. Glock threw in Armorer's school, the advanced class, and free replacement parts.

Sorry, but I can't stand by and NOT say something after seeing this BS.

cuerno de chivo
March 7, 2001, 11:05 PM
one department's decision makes all other posts bs?

Oris
March 7, 2001, 11:16 PM
Hmm, everything was so wonderful, Glock was the best of the best of the best, now George tells us that it was just the good american style business and not the results of super-duper torture tests (tank is rolling over Glock, Glock is fine, tank is dead, everybody is impressed and stuff) that tipped the scale in favor of Glock. May be George is right.

WESHOOT2
March 7, 2001, 11:19 PM
Funny me, I don't like light guns (although that P32 has piqued my interest).

Or guns that go "doink".

Just me...

mikey357
March 7, 2001, 11:29 PM
"Doink"??? That's it!!! For YEARS I have been tying to figure out how to describe the "Tupperware Wonder's" trigger sound/behavior to people...that's it!!! Oh, Boy!!! Hot Damn!!! Some local LEO's are gonna rue the day that they made fun of ....

Clayton Hufford
March 7, 2001, 11:52 PM
Doink! LMAO that's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. Thanks for giving me a word to describe the sound of me dry-firing my Glocks. My wife hates the sound, and now she yells, "Stop doinking!".

WYO
March 8, 2001, 12:19 AM
jtduncan--thanks for your comment.

automainea--I did not say that a BG took the slide off my Glock. I hope I never meet that person. If I created a misimpression, sorry. I was responding to a comment that a person's Glock had never malfunctioned in a way that took him out of the game. My model 22 did. Once I couldn't get the gun to go off while I was dry firing after a range session during the time that I was using it as a duty gun. I was pulling the trigger so hard the trigger bar was bending, but it wouldn't go click. I ultimately diagnosed that the contact point where the trigger bar meets the connector was dry (I tend to be a minimalist in terms of lubrication on a carry gun), and a small drop of oil cured it. (P.S. Exhibit A in the case for backups.) For some reason I tend to be one of those people who can get anything to malfunction, like the Sig P220 that jammed on factory .45 hardball, or the same gun that had the front sight walk off the gun while I was shooting it. (Exhibit B) I had a trigger spring break on a Beretta the day after I almost needed it real bad. (Exhibit C) Machinery is just machinery. It's never 100%, not even a Glock. Always have alternatives in mind, even if it's your feet.

vyper005
March 8, 2001, 01:05 AM
Just by what you said...Glock is an all around decent company....and their customer service is top notch..:p

IanS
March 8, 2001, 01:08 AM
Glock people do have a tendency to use words like "best" "toughest" "most reliable" or even "pretty"? when describing their pistols. No other pistol except 1911 owners are as fanatical. Naturally this is going to raise the ire of other shooters esp. an opinionated place like this. But the influence Glock has had in shooting sports and combat pistols in general has arguably been the greatest since the 1911.

Even detractors of the Beatles or Elvis cannot deny their place in history.

WESHOOT2
March 8, 2001, 06:53 AM
If you Glock owners prefer a different sound HIGHLY RECOMMEND 3.5lb trigger goodies, and (non-service ONLY) titanium striker, or (and for service apps) a lightened tool steel striker.

It will "fix" the 'doink', and done correctly will significantly improve trigger performance and speed up lock time.....possible improvement in accuracy due to better trigger.

AR-10
March 8, 2001, 08:00 AM
My SIGs all go "doink" when I dry-fire them. Bugs the heck out of me.

As for the original topic,I like variety. Don't think "settling" for what others choose for unclear reasons will necessarily result in the best weapon for me. If I was a Police Officer, I would be bummed if I got saddled with a weapon I did not like or trust.

BB
March 8, 2001, 08:03 AM
George said:
...It met minimum requirements, and Glock was willing to take our Sigmas and our adjudicated weapons in trade for the Glocks...

I think it's important to point out that Georges' T&E/Procurment department had, previously, selected Sigmas. Keeps things in perspective. The FBI/DEA/DOJ/DOD have done plenty of performance tests (published) against Glock, SIG, Beretta and HK, and at one time or another each one of these did better than the others.

Personally, I like Glocks. I've owned a few. Great guns, but no, they are far from perfect. Now, best all-around or overall maybe, but there is no perfect gun.

Charmedlyfe
March 8, 2001, 11:55 AM
I'm not bashing the Glocks.....just the idea that if LEOs use a type of weapon, then it must be the best. It is fact that agencies must often get something that is not quite as good because it is all they can afford. Glock has been VERY aggressive in selling to LEOs BECAUSE THEY KNOW PEOPLE BUY WHAT THE COPS CARRY. It is better to give a break on a hundred guns in order to sell a thousand. I can remember when Glock first came out, and no-one was really impressed. How things change with good marketing. Glocks are fairly good guns. They ARE good enough for the general public. Just stop with the marketing hype, already!!!!!

As to the Sigmas, they were purchased sight unseen when they first came out. The FTU at the time was rabidly S&W, and believed they could do no wrong. S&W actually offered to EXCHANGE the old Sigmas with brand-new ones AT NO COST. Needless to say, the new FTU decided that a functional weapon was more important than a free one. You get what you pay for.....

RazorsEdge
March 8, 2001, 12:47 PM
Well it is obvious that, however one feels, Glock has created a revolution in handgun manufacture, one that almost everyone will ultimately follow.

But actually Glock is self-limiting, they basically just build one gun and keep chopping it off or making it longer.


I think that other manufacturers will use the same technology and come up with some highly creative variants.

It will be bad news for some that Glocks really can't been seen as objects 'd art, no richly textured wooden grips, no deeply oiled blue finishes, firm barrels,
pouting triggers, etc.

They are basically designed to go bang.

BrokenArrow
March 8, 2001, 02:35 PM
Glocks are so widley used mainly because:

1) They are so easy to use and maintain.
2) Safe Action system is preferred by most over DA/SA or DAO.
3) They do work well for a long time, the armorers course is a breeze, Glock bends over backwards to get/keep happy customers, good prices, takes anything in trade, etc.

A few yrs ago the SIG 9s dominated the feds (FBI/DEA/USMS/Customs). Now it's Glock 40s.

The FBI had a group of agents fire samples of all the 40s submitted, the Glock was the favorite, so it was run through all the tests. It passed, contract was signed for so many at such a price for so many yrs. Does not mean that many will actually be bought. The DEA tested just about everything, signed contracts with just about everybody, have been issuing mostly Glocks the last few yrs.

The INS/Border Patrol tested Beretta, SIG, Glock, S&W, Ruger. Bought 32,000 Berettas since 95. SIG is an approved option. Is buying a bunch of USPs (based on DEAs tests). The Glock 40 is still not an approved option with them AFAIk.

Ohio state police tested em all, went SIG. Illinois tested most of them, went Glock. NJ is going with new S&Ws...

They all work. Which is best is like asking somebody which ice cream is better, chocolate or vanilla? A matter of taste? Most surveys will have vanilla come out on top BTW, but I like chocolate. And Glocks in 9mm. :)

Dave D
March 8, 2001, 03:16 PM
After reading some of the earlier posts I was starting to wonder, until I read Jt's posts which pretty much nailed it.
Glocks are just a no nonsense get it done pistol, and they do it well, in terrible conditions.
If you collect guns for the toy collection or the smoking room collection there are better choices.

Charmedlyfe
March 9, 2001, 12:36 PM
And if you need one for duty, go HK!!!!!

LawDog
March 9, 2001, 01:43 PM
"Doink"? ROTFL.

No other pistol except 1911 owners are as fanatical.

HK P7 owners are just as fanatical, but we're more classy about it. :D:D:D

LawDog

PRIDEFANS
March 9, 2001, 04:16 PM
This was a LOT of good reading but I think it can be summed-up by just saying Glocks are "idiot-proof". No offense to the well-trained LEO's out there but hey, you guys know who you work with.