Any Buckmark experts out there?

[HighValleyRanch]

I'm rebuilding my early Browning Buckmark (Standard frame). I found that the plastic recoild buffer broke where the long pin rides.
I cannot find the old style anywhere, only the post 2001 style.

I was told by Midwest Gun Works that these will NOT work in the pre 2001 guns.
Is this correct because Numerich says that this newer style replaces the older one. What is the difference, other than it looks like the post 2001 doesn't have the circular tab that fits into the frame.

Is it possible to fabricate one myself using thin aluminum stock and drill a recess for the recoil pin?
https://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=105794&stc=1&d=1505937350

[Hal]

Great....three more guns I have now that critical parts for them are drying up...

[railroader]

I just did a search and people are using the new buffers in the old guns and they seem to work. I was interested because I have an older gun too.

[HighValleyRanch]

Yeah, I am pretty sure it will work.
I had called Midwest Gun Works (MGW) earlier and the chat guy said it would not work???

But I've been working in the shop fabricating an aluminum plate to the same shape. But now I see how it all works, and the aluminum will not work.
There is a hole in the frame pillar that the recoil spring rod goes into. I thought that it was the buffer plate that held the rod in place, but the rod goes THROUGH the plastic buffer plate with the tip of the rod centering into the hole in the pillar.

Therefore the buffer is actually a floating piece held in place by the rod going through it. It's purpose is to act as a cushion to keep the slide bolt from slamming to hard against the pillar. So the piece needs to be plastic.

I am sure that the new buffer, which is simple a rectangular piece of plastic with a hole in the proper place for the recoil rod will work. It might need some filing to fit. Probably even a piece of plastic like off an Alhambra water bottle cut to fit with a hole in it would work as a buffer/cushion.
Might try that to see if it works even, but having to wait on other parts to get the Buckmark up and shooting. Mine is from 1990 with the original grips.

Here's what the new buffer looks like:
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/B5150005

https://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=105795&stc=1&d=1505949953

[JJE]

...it looks like the post 2001 doesn't have the circular tab that fits into the frame.

That's the difference - the new buffers will fit and work (I just put a new buffer into my '80's BuckMark). Since Browning eliminated that tab, I guess it's not important.

[Model12Win]

Yeah, I am pretty sure it will work.
I had called Midwest Gun Works (MGW) earlier and the chat guy said it would not work???

But I've been working in the shop fabricating an aluminum plate to the same shape. But now I see how it all works, and the aluminum will not work.
There is a hole in the frame pillar that the recoil spring rod goes into. I thought that it was the buffer plate that held the rod in place, but the rod goes THROUGH the plastic buffer plate with the tip of the rod centering into the hole in the pillar.

Therefore the buffer is actually a floating piece held in place by the rod going through it. It's purpose is to act as a cushion to keep the slide bolt from slamming to hard against the pillar. So the piece needs to be plastic.

I am sure that the new buffer, which is simple a rectangular piece of plastic with a hole in the proper place for the recoil rod will work. It might need some filing to fit. Probably even a piece of plastic like off an Alhambra water bottle cut to fit with a hole in it would work as a buffer/cushion.
Might try that to see if it works even, but having to wait on other parts to get the Buckmark up and shooting. Mine is from 1990 with the original grips.

Here's what the new buffer looks like:
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/B5150005

https://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=105795&stc=1&d=1505949953
Nice Bucky!! Love the grips and finish.

[Hal]

the new buffers will fit and work Thank heaven for that.

[HighValleyRanch]

Nice Bucky!! Love the grips and finish.
Those are the first style grips from what I understand. The finish was very worn from being so old, so I used fine grit paper to remove all the blueing and then polish and cold blue using Super blue. Went over all the frame which which is aluminum touching up the corners with aluminum black. Where the edges were nicked from years of use, I lightly sanded a bevel with a block and reblackened the edges. Always feels good to bring a gun back from the grave back to as new as possible again. The grips are brand new having been stored away since 1990!
==========================

This is an update on the buffer repair.
Instead of ordering one of the new ones, I decided to try and make my own. I used a piece of poly plastic that was close to the same thickness as the original....from a plastic clip used to hold electrical wire on a stock fence. Just found a flat area and cut it from that.

Then I ground the piece to size to fit into the bolt/slide. And then measure to determine where the rod hole needed to be drilled. I used a 9/64 bit for the final hole for the rod so that the rod tip could protrude into the hole in the stop pillar (see second image).
This is where I found that the rod should not go all the way through the buffer. It needed to be pinned there by the cushion on the spring. So by drilling a 7/32 to 1/3 depth, I was able to created a creater for the spring cushion but allow the rod to poke through just enough to seat in the pillar.

The final photo shows the buffer in place. I left it sticking up slightly so it seats into the recess on the top sight mount and this helps to keep it in place as well.

Will it work or last, we shall see, but right now it feels good from the slide action.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=105797&stc=1&d=1506013159
https://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=105798&stc=1&d=1506013159
https://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=105799&stc=1&d=1506013159

[HighValleyRanch]

The saga continues, getting a buckmark working again.
After I got the buffer made, I discovered that the trigger was not resetting.
So I found a few things. This may be of help to others experiencing the same problem.
The disconnect bar (really a trigger bar like in the High Standards) was a little worn in the sear arm notch, so I used a square tiny file to clean it up. This was causing it to jump out of place. I did manage to find the original spring tucked away in a box somewhere, so now I could get tension on the bar to contact the sear arm.

But it kept jumping out of place. I discovered that the sear pin had worked its way out of the opposite side of the frame, and its protrusion was keeping the disconnect notch from fully engaging the sear arm. So I manage to get it all the way in, then used a punch to stake it, then used loctite and even a little epoxy to keep that pin from drifting out and pushing the disconnect bar out. Also, when the pin had drifted out, it caused the disconnect bar to bind against the grip panel.

I used some moly as lube and now the gun functions perfectly. I don't have the mag latch yet, so had to do some test firing single loading but it functions flawlessly so far.
CCI mini mags.

QUESTION: Would a fiber optic front sight look out of place on such a nice vintage original buckmark? Maybe a brass bead front sight would be more appropriate? Or paint the front blade?

[FrankenMauser]

Ah, the old 'slab side' Buckmark Standard. I have one that's seen substantial use (~132k rounds), and a Target model a couple years newer. Good pistols. Both have been in the family since new.

Buffers and recoil spring / guide rod assemblies are kept on hand as consumables.
I'm on the (I think) third spring assembly in the Standard, and the second in the Target. Buffers ... Probably 3-5 replaced per pistol at this point.

As previous posters mentioned, the newer style buffer works. I have half a dozen of the pre-2000 style from a lot of parts that I picked up in 2009. They should last me another 20+ years. But, I know that not everyone was in the market or 'lucky' enough to get the parts when they were available.

If you plan to keep that Buckmark around for a while and don't want to keep fabricating parts, I suggest getting at least one recoil spring / guide rod assembly to keep as a spare. Or, at the very least, the little delrin piece that fits into the top of the slide. It's different than the 2000+ models, and I haven't been able to find one for a couple years. I don't look often, but I can't find the assemblies or the little delrin lug/bushing when I do.

The guide rods, delrin piece, and retaining clips do wear. So planning on replacing just a spring isn't a good idea.


Fiber optic sights?
I don't think it would do a disservice to the pistol. They would probably blend right in.


What are those grips?
The image quality makes them look 3D printed.

[HighValleyRanch]

Thanks, I already made a similar list.
Just purchased a 4" slab sided blue barrel a little while ago so I can have both barrel sizes.
Ordered from Midwest Gunworks for 70.00. Cheaper new than a bunged up on on Ebay!

The grips are the original first series style with the diamond type checkered pattern and flat, no thumbrest. These came original on the 1990 pistol and have been stored in a drawer for years, so they are new. Never used them.

[FrankenMauser]

Interesting. My Standard has the dark grey 'thumbrest' grips with the molded medallion, but it should be an '87 or '88 model. I may be wrong about the pistol being original, or have the birth year wrong. (My father bought both new, and I moved away for a time while they were still his.)


That website is pure evil. I had to close the window and pretend I never saw those barrels or top straps. Too tempting...

[HighValleyRanch]

I got that information from this webpage:
http://www.guns.com/2014/03/13/browning-buckmark-30-years-plinking-excellence-video/

Further down the page it shows one just like mine and says,
"Early model Buckmark with first style grips"

I went out and tested some ammo out of the magazine tonight.
Stingers, mini mags, federal and CCI standard all shot without a hitch. I am missing the magazing release bolt, so had to hold the magazine in place to test the various ammos, but it shot everything from standard velocity to hyper.

[FrankenMauser]

Very nice.


I just did a little digging, and ran across this: Buck Mark Models and Variations from 1985 -1997 (https://www.thefirearmsforum.com/threads/buck-mark-models-and-variations-from-1985-1997.156270/).
According to that breakdown, my previous research and memory were faulty. The serial number history and variation breakdown put my Target model at 1990, and the Standard as a 1992.

But that doesn't fit the purchase timeline of mine, nor my uncle's Silhouette ("Unlimited Silhouette Match" w/ wrap-around grips, according to the link). Old dealer/distributor stock could be a factor, but even that makes me question the data. The Silhouette was ordered as soon as they were announced, and picked up in 1991 (from an FFL that literally operated the entire business, including paperwork, out of a 3'x6' storage room in his carport). ...But the Target and Standard were already in my father's possession at that time.
Gonna take some more digging. I may need to call Browning to clear it up.

Anyway, thanks for prompting me to dig a little deeper.

[HighValleyRanch]

This page is where how I dated mine:
http://www.browning.com/support/date-your-firearm/buck-mark--22-caliber-pistol.html

From what little I know, there were many variations of the buckmark, but only three styles of frames.
The standard was the first of the Buckmark series and is different than the earlier Medalist and Challenger models.
The second one was the URX and is identical to the standard, except that the frontstrap is shave down for wrap round grips. If you took standard buckmark grips and shaved them down at an angle in the front, everything else fits.
The third to come into being was the UDX with the finger grooves in the frame.
And lately the UFX is the same as the standard frame.

The problem with Buckmark is their names cross the frame platforms. So that the camper model originally was a standard frame, and now is the UFX frame. Other models having the same name might have different frames. So It's confusing for the buyer. High Standard back in the old days did similar with their slant grip frames and the military frames.

[stephen426]

Thanks for bringing this up. I have had mine since 1994 and have had the same issue with the recoil buffer and the spring guide post. I also have thew 5.5" slab side model. but I ended up buying the full bull barrel and top rail for mine. It is a great shooter. I know those parts are hard to find so I'd appreciate any ideas you guys might have.

[FrankenMauser]

I'm familiar with the Medalist and Challenger, and the Buckmark Challenger (and Challenger Buckmark).

My father has a Challenger that he bought new, which came as one of the various 'kits' with multiple barrels, and the factory pistol rug. Fantastic pistol. Smooth. Reliable. And fun to shoot.
The Buckmarks that I have were actually my father's attempt at "saving" the Challenger from wear and tear.
... But everyone preferred the Challenger. The only way to keep it safe was to leave it in the safe. (Which is what he ended up doing.)

Now, or soon in the future, it will end up in the hands of one of my brothers. Though we all appreciate it, that brother loves it more than anyone else.

Challenger!!!! :D

[Hal]

Wasn't the Buckmark the Buckmark Challenge - not Challenger?

http://www.browning.com/products/firearms/pistols/buck-mark-pistols/discontinued/buck-mark-challenge.html

[HighValleyRanch]

Their current model is called the Challenge, but the Challenger that we were referring to was made in Belgium before the current Buckmark series.
You can see it here in this youtube video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKEV3YkCyl8

[Hal]

I recall the Challenger - and the Challenger II and Challenger III.
& the Nomad also.
One of them, IIRC, was/is a real SOB to find a magazine for.

My local gun store had one, sans magazine, on the shelf for years.

Beautiful gun - but - a lot of money for something to just look at.

[HighValleyRanch]

Right now, I am not sure if the grips for a standard fit the challenger. From looking at it, the grip angle looks more slanted like the slant grip High Standards, and produced in Belgium, that would make sense. But then I believe that the magazines for the early Buckmarks also fit the Challenger models, so perhaps they must be the same angle of feed, but the grip angle itself is different?
The early magazines had the notch out at the heel so that they would fit the Challengers and the early Buckmark. So maybe the Challenger and the medalist had the heel European mag release?

[FrankenMauser]

I believe it was only the Challenger II and Challenger III pistols that had some parts that interchanged with early Buckmarks, such as magazines.
The original Challenger magazines and grips will not. (And either is a beast to obtain.)

[Hal]

From what I can glean off the Browning website, all three of my Buckmarks are discontinued models.

I have a Standard - with Rosewood grips.
One of the original Camper models.
My wife has a nickel Buckmark Micro <---really slick quick handling gun I only get to fondle when it's cleaning time :( LOL!

[HighValleyRanch]

Just about how I want it now.
Got all my parts installed: new magazine button, mag button latch, disconnect spring, buffer.
I made some walnut grips for it as well that wrap around the front strap. Kinda inspired by the Clark ruger .45 grips and also a Savage 1907. More hand filling, and feels very nice. Has a flare on the right bottom to keep my hand in place, but can be shot right or left handed. You can see the screw at the bottom front holding the two sides together. It's there for a reason. In the future, I will inlet for a lanyard tab at the bottom. Thinking a woods kit pistol needs a lanyard of course when climbing cliffs!LOL

Also installed a Voquartsen black trigger. I wanted the vintage look, so wanted have all black parts. The volquartsen trigger has no creep. It needed a little fitting because I had to file the sear arm notch in the disconnect to fit, and now it has zero play, so very crisp trigger. Probably around 4 pounds. The over travel is not long enough so will have to find a longer allen.

Ordered a 4" slab barrel for it as well. That way my kit will have a short and long barrel.

Next is a thin flap holster for wearing in the woods. It'll be floral carved leather.
Like a woodsman holster.
Here's a couple of pics to now.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=105818&stc=1&d=1506390477
https://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=105819&stc=1&d=1506390477

[gb6491]

Nice work on that BM! I really like the look of those grips.
Regards,
Greg

[stephen426]

Looks great. I'll take a picture of mine when I get a chance.