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View Full Version : Need a 1911: best sub $1000 combat sight out of box?


snolden
May 19, 2017, 05:09 PM
I am getting ready to buy a .45 acp 1911. What's the best one?
My conditions:
Fixed sights, single stack mag, no jams with ball or most hollow points, under $1000 with tax and can be new or used. But I don't want to add anything other than sights
Uses:
Range and BBQ gun only.

I have owned 2 Springfield Armory 1911's in the past. I traded away my last .45 and need at least one.

I will reload for this, probably XTP bullets and Berry's plated.

No frills just some good John Moses fun.

If you have one for sale in AZ, let me know.

WVsig
May 19, 2017, 05:32 PM
Get a used LNIB or new Dan Wesson Heritage. Dan Wesson makes the best production 1911s and the Heritage is their entry level gun. Everything you need nothing you don't.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/646456477

You could do fine with a Colt 70 Reproduction or Colt 80 series but you are not going to get a beavertail or modern Novak cut/style dovetailed sights.

Both are better than SA IMHO.

RickB
May 19, 2017, 06:09 PM
What do you consider "combat sights" that you expect to have to change them?
That is, you can get just about any kind of sight you could possibly want, right from the factory.

snolden
May 19, 2017, 06:11 PM
I meant is I do not want adjustable sights

burrhead
May 19, 2017, 06:35 PM
Colt

smee78
May 19, 2017, 07:12 PM
I would get a Ruger but that's just me....:D

KyJim
May 19, 2017, 08:08 PM
Besides WVSig's suggestion of a used Dan Wesson Heritage, you might look at the Colt Combat Elite. Bud's, and I'm sure others, have it in the $900 range. That gives you the Novak "combat' sights and beavertail grip safety. https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_21_1171/products_id/55899/Colt+O8011XSE+XSE+Series+8+1+45ACP+5%22

mikejonestkd
May 20, 2017, 05:43 AM
I completely agree with the above posters : the Colt Combat Elite and the Dan Wesson Heritage are outstanding choices at the $1000 price point.
My personal combat elite has well over 20K rounds through it and it is easily my favorite go to 1911.
I have a dan wesson pointman and a valor and they are excellent 1911s. I would not hesitate to get the heritage.

Screwball
May 20, 2017, 06:04 AM
I would get a Ruger but that's just me....:D


I love mine... and was $660 back when you could barely find them. Don't look at prices now, so unsure what they go for, but sure it is well under $1,000.

The standard sights are fine, I just tossed on Heinie Straight 8s... being I wanted to try them out.

It isn't a $2,000 1911, but it works very well for the price. I do like the plunger tube being a part of the frame. Eventually, I want to swap out all the parts for stainless, but more for looks than anything else. It is my only 1911, so no issue investing $300 to make it unique... still well under $2,000.

Don't get me wrong, if you have the money and want a $2,000+ 1911, I'm sure they are nice. I just don't have a reason to own one... but wanted a 1911 for my collection. My father was happy with his Remington... but this was before the R51 fiasco. Unsure if I'd trust them.

Road_Clam
May 20, 2017, 07:03 AM
I will reload for this, probably XTP bullets and Berry's plated.

So with this being said what is you intent by reloading ? Are you going for maximum accuracy or just an attempt to lessen the cost of shooting ? If you are looking for max accuracy I suggest you get a 1911 that has adjustable sights. Remember fixed sights are just that fixed. They are adjusted for a specific weight bullet at a specific velocity to hit a target at a specific distance. What that is you won't know until you shoot it. If you don't like the elevation POI, tough luck either find an alternate velocity ammo or just hold over to your POI is accurately achieved. I handload for accuracy and I prefer a 6 oclock hold so I fine tune my "fixed sight" handload velocities to achieve this at 50' distance. My 1911 is a SA RO chambered in 9mm. I love the fact I have the adjustable sights. I have a lot more versatility achieving accuracy with any combination of bullet weight and velocity.

snolden
May 20, 2017, 07:21 AM
I will reload mostly for cost, in order to shoot good bullets at target ammo price.

I can drift and file or install different height sights as needed to dial in for my final load(s).

Rangerrich99
May 20, 2017, 02:00 PM
Ruger Nightwatchman 1911. Between $800 and $950 nib I believe. Comes with Novak style night sights. Though personally I'd get the DW if I could find a good example for less than $1000.

snolden
May 20, 2017, 09:15 PM
Thanks for the heads up on the heritage. Even at $1150-1200 it stilll looks like a good buy. Any one know the date of serial number they started using forged frames if I find a used one?

JDBerg
May 20, 2017, 09:32 PM
I paid slightly less than $1,200.00 for my Dan Wesson Valor, far & away the best gun I own. I'd also consider a used Springfield TRP

Martowski
May 20, 2017, 11:01 PM
Dan Wesson Heritage for sure. I believe 2009 was the only year they made the Heritage with cast frames; they started using the forged frames in the Heritage in 2010. You can tell based on how the frame is finished; the 2009 cast frame models had polished sides on the frame and slide, whereas the 2010 and later forged frames have more of a "bead blasted" matte look to the frame. Almost all of the Heritages you'll find are forged.

You can sometimes find these new for under $1000. Buds gun shop, a few months back, had some really cool versions with black slides and OD frames for under a grand but those are gone.

BigJimP
May 21, 2017, 12:10 AM
In that price range I would look at the Colt & Springfield models....and buy the one that has the best trigger...features you want.

I don't like adjustable rear sights on my 1911's either..../ I'm still old school and carry a full sized 5" 1911 ....and have recently gone to a fixed rear sight with a square notch...and a green fibre optic in front...( wilson combat ) ..and i like them a lot over more traditional night sights.

Adjustable rear sights in and out of a holster ...are not your best option, in my view.

I have fired a few of colts competition models ...one in 9mm and a couple in .45 acp...and they were pretty good guns....springfield loaded should be in your budget range....but at least look at their TRP model as well, its more money, but has a lot of the features i would want - speed chute, ambi safety, checkered front strap...its a lot of gun for the money.

Model12Win
May 21, 2017, 12:38 AM
DW Heritage, lightly used.

EMB135Driver
May 21, 2017, 01:19 PM
Found a Kimber TLE II at my local shop for $919.00.....even has a threaded barrel just in case suppressors become legal.

snolden
May 21, 2017, 03:13 PM
They aren't? My suppressor is legal. But it's only a .30 cal and wouldn't do too well on the .45

RickB
May 21, 2017, 03:28 PM
I'd probably get a Colt Competition, which is a much a $900 pistol as the DW or Combat Elite are $1000 pistols.
That leave a little $$ for the three or four additional mags you'll want.

Rob228
May 21, 2017, 07:22 PM
Anything Springfield is a good buy for the money, you just need to get rid of the weird two piece guiderod they insist on making.

Strafer Gott
May 21, 2017, 07:49 PM
That two piece guide rod is about the only thing I don't like about the TRP.
Used TRP s aren't expensive. The trade value is around 400 USD. I wouldn't let mine go for that. I have the champion length.

Kreyzhorse
May 22, 2017, 07:33 AM
Colt or Springfield.

I agree with the Springfield two piece guide rod thing. Replacing it was the first thing I did when i got my TRP.

Bluecthomas
May 22, 2017, 12:08 PM
I've heard good things about the ati. Even fired a few.

I'm picking up a citadel. But I'm friends with a legacy employee, so it's price just can't be beaten. I could get two and several extra mags for the $1,000 price your talking about.

I plan on adding a laser grip at some point. But that's gonna cost as much as the gun itself...

Suppressors are, as I understand it, a state thing. Here in Nevada they are legal. And one of the atis I've fired had it. I may add one eventually. But it adds a huge amount of front end weight.

WC145
May 28, 2017, 08:48 AM
Colt Series 70 repro, Colt Competition, Colt Combat Elite, and Springfield Loaded are all very nice guns and will serve your needs well and you can buy them new for well under $1000. I have friends with Rugers and they swear by them but if I were only going to have one 1911 it would be a Colt unless I was going to spend the money to buy in the Baer and Brown range.

If you're willing to buy used or shop hard for deals to keep around your price point the Colt Wiley Clapp Gov't Model is a lot of gun for the money. The DW Heritage is a nice gun, and used TRPs can be had for close to that and they are great guns as well.

Don't overlook the used market as well as internet sales, whether through sites like gunbroker or through forum classifieds like on 1911addicts, even some store/commercial sites can have good buys. In the last year I've purchased a lightly used 3 year old Baer Custom Carry for $1250, a practically new 20 year old Springfield Trophy Match $1050, a very nice old Brown-Baer Special Forces for $1150, and a NIB Colt LW Gov't for $750. A few months after I got it I threw $100 bill in with the LW Gov't and traded in for an as new Evolution Armory tuned 9mm Colt LW Commander with only 200rds through it.
Keep your eyes open, cash ready, and shop around and there's no telling what you'll find.

snolden
May 28, 2017, 09:34 AM
Thanks guys...found a nice kimber custom toe II aluminum frame at sportsmans yesterday for just a bit over $1000 with my mil discount.

Normally a $1300 pistol range at retail places. Pretty good so far.

WC145
May 28, 2017, 09:41 AM
Thanks guys...found a nice kimber custom toe II aluminum frame at sportsmans yesterday for just a bit over $1000 with my mil discount.

Normally a $1300 pistol range at retail places. Pretty good so far.
Personally, I'd buy a Colt or Springfield over a Kimber.

snolden
May 28, 2017, 01:11 PM
They do have a lot going for them, but the kimber felt right. Hard to overlook feel. This will probably be sold off down the road anyways as I don't keep 1911's very long. Just a toy. Last one went to the guy that did my roof. :)

Ruger45LC
May 28, 2017, 04:52 PM
Based on what I've had, I'd go with either some form of Ruger 1911 or a Springfield Range Officer. Don't even consider Kimber.

gpjoe
May 29, 2017, 01:16 PM
Personally, I'd buy a Colt or Springfield over a Kimber.

Why?

Have you owned and shot all of them?

TunnelRat
May 29, 2017, 06:22 PM
Why?



Have you owned and shot all of them?



I've always heard the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WC145
May 30, 2017, 06:29 PM
Why?

Have you owned and shot all of them?
All of them? No. Have you? I've owned many Colts and Springfields, there's at least half a dozen Colts plus 3 or 4 Springfields in my safe right now. I've shot several Kimbers and worked for a sheriff's office that issued them to their full time deputies. I've witnessed numerous failures of the department's guns in training and quals that required armorer's attention to correct and one gun that locked up and wouldn't function right out of the box. All the while the S&W and Springfield 1911s that I was carrying through that time functioned without fail. I have friends that own Kimber's (they're very popular around here) and some run fine and others are finicky about the ammo that they'll run with. My Colts and Springfields don't have any problems with feeding, regardless of ammo brand or type. I have other 1911s from other manufacturers that don't suffer the same issues either. So, what I've personally seen is that Kimbers have more issues than Colts and Springfields and because of that I, personally, would buy a Colt or Springfield rather than a Kimber in the same price range.

KyJim
May 30, 2017, 08:25 PM
I've owned and shot them all. I prefer Colt and Springfield Armory over Kimber. Pretty much for the reasons WC145 gave plus poor customer service. Other people may have different experiences.

Snuffy308
May 31, 2017, 02:24 AM
Well, you done gone and done it now Snolden. Internetters don't like kimbers:eek::eek::D

gpjoe
May 31, 2017, 03:45 AM
All of them? No. Have you?

Yep.

Still, wasn't talking to you.

I asked the guy that expressly recommended against Kimber. Lots of "experts" recommend against Kimber because their uncle's, cousin's, brother's, father's, sister-in-law owned one and it jammed once.

PatientWolf
May 31, 2017, 04:04 AM
I'm also not a fan of Kimber.

When I go to the LGSs I always take a walk through the used gun sections. One thing I see is that the used Kimbers seem to have a disproportionate number of examples that have surface rust on the the barrels.

I'd understand one or two that may not have been properly maintained, but what I see is a very high percentage.

This alone makes me stay away from them.

I hope this is not your experience with yours.

gpjoe
May 31, 2017, 05:26 PM
A dealer once said to me: "Rust equals neglect". I tend to agree, and mine has not rusted in almost ten years.

I have an Ultra CDP II, and it's a dreaded 3" pistol that John Browning never intended when he designed the 1911. It's supposed to be a jam-o-matic, but surprisingly has never jammed on me. I don't know how many rounds I have through it, but I have shot 230g ball ammo (factory and my own reloads) and a variety of SD ammo including Hornady Critical Defense with it's semi-conical tip. Never jammed once. I carry the Kimber and trust my life with it.

I am not a KImber fan-boy, nor am I defensive about the pistol. I also have a couple of Colts, a Springfield, a traditional Sig (well, it's got an external extractor - but not the square-ish Sig slide), and a Dan Wesson Specialist.

The only point I am trying to make is that too many folks chime in about guns they have never actually owned or fired.

WC145
May 31, 2017, 08:14 PM
Yep.

Still, wasn't talking to you.

I asked the guy that expressly recommended against Kimber. Lots of "experts" recommend against Kimber because their uncle's, cousin's, brother's, father's, sister-in-law owned one and it jammed once.
Well, you quoted me so I assumed you were directing your question to me.

BTW, I spoke to the Lt at the sheriff's office since I posted that, they're getting rid of the Kimbers and going back to Glock 21s, which is what they issued before the Kimbers.

Kvon2
May 31, 2017, 08:46 PM
Another vote for Citadel. I think legacy sports is doing a lot of good things and are still under the radar.

KyJim
May 31, 2017, 08:53 PM
Well, you done gone and done it now Snolden. Internetters don't like kimbersSomebody recommends a non-Kimber without dissing Kimber and a Kimber fanboy wants to know if that person has owned them all. That invites comment about Kimber. BTW, not saying I'll never own another Kimber. Things change.

WVsig
June 1, 2017, 06:36 AM
I am not a KImber fan-boy, nor am I defensive about the pistol. I also have a couple of Colts, a Springfield, a traditional Sig (well, it's got an external extractor - but not the square-ish Sig slide), and a Dan Wesson Specialist.

The only point I am trying to make is that too many folks chime in about guns they have never actually owned or fired.

Sound like a bit of a fan boy to me. LOL Also sounds like you take the comments about Kimber personally as if the gun you use to defend your life somehow defines or reflects on you. :rolleyes:

The reality is that Kimber sells more 1911s than anyone else. The more guns you sell the more defects are going to show up, in pure number of defective gins, even if your defect rate is the same as other makers. So it makes sense that there would be more defective Kimbers in the marketplace than any other 1911. This however does not tell the hole Kimber story.

They started making very good guns which changed the production 1911 market but they grew to fast. They changed to an external extractor which never worked and had to switch back. They ramped up volume but did not ramp up the CS department or warranty department so when Cohen pumped all the metal into the market and they started to come back to the factory they did not have the man power to handle it quickly. Kimber's rep suffered greatly.

They have also had complete failures like the Solo. They are expensive considering they are mass produced MIM filled gun. When you look at the actual parts in the gun are similar to a Ruger which sells for have the price. Lots of MIM and cast parts with pretty finishes but if you compare the guts of a $1000 Kimber and a $1000 Dan Wesson they are two different animals.

This does not mean Kimber is not a good gun or that they will not run but being so emotionally tied to Kimber seems to have clouded your rational judgment. If you like Kimber keep buying them. People like me choose other guns. We have tons of choices in the 1911 marketplace there is not need to be defensive or attack others for their thoughts on the topic.

PS I don't need to own one to know this to be true. I don't have to own a Ferrari 458 Italia to know it is better than a Corvette. So you premise is an ad hominem attack which attempts to discredit the poster not the posters words. Also your question "Have you owned and shot all of them?" is nothing but a red herring.