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longshank
July 2, 2016, 11:02 PM
Been thinking about a nicer carry gun in 9mm by Les Baer or Wilson Combat. Current carry is Glock 19. Is it worth money for a custom?

Onward Allusion
July 2, 2016, 11:47 PM
Personally, carry gun...less rounds and more weight? Um, I would not, but hey if you really want an expensive carry piece, I'd say go for it! [look at my sig . . .] :D

BigJimP
July 2, 2016, 11:49 PM
Yes, carrying a Wilson 5" protector model, all stainless, is worth it to me ...because they are great guns, well built, well tuned to run 100% right out of the box...for many thousands of rounds. My 9mm has over 120,000 rds thru it now...and is about 8 yrs old - it's been a great gun.

I can't recommend a Baer...I have a 9mm Monolith model...fit and finish is average, it took at least 2,500 rds of breaking in before it would run .....so I never thought I would ever trust it. In hindsight, I think he makes his guns too tight - excessively tight ....so i'll never buy another one. It's a decent gun - not a great gun, so I gave it to my adult son.

I do have a 2nd wilson, 5" CQB in .45acp / I carried it for many yrs....but about 2 yrs ago I switched to the 9mm. Both guns are almost identical, except in caliber .... but in my 60's now and some arthritis in my hands ...and a little less recoil in the 9mm and my follow up shots are about 0.1 of a sec faster in 9mm...

The 9mm wilson is my primary range gun too -- and in my weekly tactical drills with my buddies. I won't buy another 1911, except a wilson ...they'really worth every penny in my view.

2 of my shooting buddies - have also purchased wilson 9mm's in last 2 yrs...because of my experience with their durability, accuracy and smoothness...and fit & finish. Both of theirs are CQB 5" models in 9mm.... ( and they could both afford to buy whatever they wanted ( Wilson, Brown, Cabot, Nighthawk, Baer, etc.....and between us, we all own a few Kimbers, Springfields, etc....but we all shoot the Wilson's --- and 2 of us carry wilsons, mine in 9mm, other guy in .45acp....but he's close to ordering a new 4" wilson in 9mm....I'm wearing him down.

Capacity is not an issue to me in a carry gum / 10 + 1 is plenty / and an extra mag or two.../ I have double stack guns ( sig 226's ).....but I carry the gun I shoot the best -- and for me that will always be a full sized 1911....not too heavy, great trigger, great feel, great features...

TunnelRat
July 3, 2016, 01:23 AM
For me personally, no. There are many excellent pistols that can be had for a fraction of the price of either of those pistols. You have, again imo, one of those pistols. I don't have the disposable income for a Wilson, and if I had a windfall there are things I could use that money for my family other than a pistol when I already have ones I trust. But I'm not you, and you're not me. Only you can answer the question of what something is worth to you personally.

Big Shrek
July 3, 2016, 01:59 AM
This, and only this...

IF YOU EVER USE IT, YOU MIGHT NOT GET IT BACK.
At the very least it is held until the investigation/court case is complete.

So if you can afford to throw away a grand or two, feel free.
Otherwise, get some plastic fantastic, or some 3rd Gen S&W semi-auto for under $500,
and enjoy knowing you can quickly and easily replace either inexpensively
should you have to use them in defense of family or friend.

kozak6
July 3, 2016, 03:02 AM
You got money to burn?

You can spend two or three Glock-worths of money on such a pistol, but will it be two or three times better?

All that extra money would buy plenty of range time and ammo, or even a bit of training.

noonesshowmonkey
July 3, 2016, 03:06 AM
This is a question akin to asking if, when about to go for a hike, you should trade your hiking pack for a Prada handbag.

The Glock 19 is essentially the best deal coming or going in a carry handgun. And, as another user noted, you can just buy three more of them instead of a 'carry' gun with some fancy name. Better yet, spend that cash on a few bricks of 9mm ammo to train with, and sign up for some serious training classes.

Hardware is rarely a solution.

P71pilot
July 3, 2016, 07:44 AM
If it will not hurt or damage you any way financially, i say go for it. For the people who say the Glock 19 is thr end all, be all, ultimate carry gun, that is simply your opinion. My opinion is that a high quality 1911 such as that wilson, is a much better pistol to carry than such a glock. The wilson 1911 will have a much nicer trigger, so follow up shots will be faster and the nice trigger attributes to ease of accuracy. The 1911 is much slimmer and trimmer than the glock, it carries so much nicer. Sure its a little heavy but in a decent holster you will forget you are carrying it. The 1911 carries less in its magazine, but that is what extra magazines or for, and if you cant take out 1-3 guys with 10rds, you need more training.

Double Naught Spy
July 3, 2016, 08:57 AM
This, and only this...

IF YOU EVER USE IT, YOU MIGHT NOT GET IT BACK.
At the very least it is held until the investigation/court case is complete.

So if you can afford to throw away a grand or two, feel free.
Otherwise, get some plastic fantastic, or some 3rd Gen S&W semi-auto for under $500,
and enjoy knowing you can quickly and easily replace either inexpensively
should you have to use them in defense of family or friend.

This is among the poorest of logic for making your carry decision unless you are destitute, which you apparently are not if you are looking at a custom gun. First, the chances of it happening are quite low. Second, at the time of a crisis, you will use whatever you have at your disposal, whether it is a $30,000 vehicle or a $189 NAA mini revolver or a $4.95 hammer from China.

Think of it this way, do you live in a trailer home because you don't want to live in a regular house that might be wiped out by a fire? Do you only buy clunker cars because a nice care might get damaged in an accident?

I carry a Wilson Combat CQB. It is a fine gun. It has been a great shooter. As noted, you can find a lot of good shooters for less money. If you heart is set on a 1911, you could buy multiple nice production 1911s for the price of a Les Baer or Wilson Combat and figure out which one you like best. If you find one on the first try, then you could buy a spare or two that are exactly like it so that if something happens to your carry gun (broken, stolen, used in self defense), you have a spare carry gun that will be exactly like the one that is lost.

Since you obviously have the money to spend, your carry considerations should really only be what is reliable, has the capacity you want, and what shoots well for you. Your Glock is already a good choice (although I personally dislike Glocks because I can't get used to the grip angle, they are fine guns).

My personal favorite is a Springfield EMP 9mm. It is an outstanding shooter, reliable, slim, downsized from a regular-sized 1911, but operates just like a regular 1911 (controls). It is a very nice production gun and if I was going the 1911 route for another carry gun, I would choose it over a Wilson Combat.

TunnelRat
July 3, 2016, 09:51 AM
The wilson 1911 will have a much nicer trigger, so follow up shots will be faster and the nice trigger attributes to ease of accuracy.

If we're talking bullseye shooting at 25 yds or from a rest on a bench, I agree. For practical shooting at the distances involved for most defensive shootings, I seriously doubt you'll notice the accuracy difference. I compare it to a car that can go 200 mph versus a car that can go 150 mph. If I'll never drive over 100, does it matter either way? For that matter there are plenty of folks that can shoot Glocks well. I don't think the Glock is the end all be all, but when I see people bemoan the trigger I feel like this guy: :rolleyes:.

The 1911 carries less in its magazine, but that is what extra magazines or for, and if you cant take out 1-3 guys with 10rds, you need more training.

This is the same sort of logic gun control advocates spout. Stress and adrenaline, multiple bad guys, movement (the real world isn't a square range), barriers, these are all things that can take up more shots. I don't have any delusions of grandeur and I don't expect a gunfight at the O.K. Corral, but dropping from 15 to 10 rounds is a substantial difference and shouldn't be disregarded quickly. The whole point of carrying is it is better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. The same is true, imo, for capacity. And in this case we are talking only a slight reduction in width, notably more weight, the same or greater height, and 2/3 the capacity. I'll drop capacity for smaller sizes/weights, but that's not the case here.

WC145
July 3, 2016, 06:08 PM
First, Baer and Wilson, like Brown, Nighthawk, and similar higher end 1911 manufacturers are selling high end production guns, not custom guns. Nothing wrong with that, I love my Baer Boss 45, but it's not a custom piece.

That said, I don't have a problem carrying my Baer or any of my custom 1911s because I carry what I like, shoot best, and am comfortable with. As far as I'm concerned they are worth the money and the "buy a Glock" or "don't carry anything worth over $500 because they'll take it" arguments are BS. Should I have to use my gun in a self defense situation and it's taken as evidence, so be it, if I'm still around to bitch about it then whatever it cost me was money well spent.

If you want to buy a higher end 1911, Les Baer's guns are bargains for what you get as far as build quality and components, though most of them lack a bit in the aesthetics department compared to a Wilson or Brown and I'm okay with that, especially if it's going to be carried and used. The problem I have with stepping up to Wilson money from Baer money is the law of diminishing returns. Is a $3000-$4000 production gun worth it when I can buy a Colt and have it customized and finished exactly the way I want it for the same amount or LESS? No, not for me. And, IMO, if you are a 1911 aficionado, you owe it to yourself to have one built just for you.

So, that's my $.02 - if you're going to carry it and use it and you want the most 1911 for your money, buy a Baer - if you want something nicer and have the money and time, buy a Colt (the best base gun out there) and have it built by the 'smith or shop of your choice.

So, the answer to your question is, YES they are worth the money, with those caveats.

noonesshowmonkey
July 3, 2016, 07:03 PM
If spending 3-5x the cost of a glock 19 for another firearm with half to two thirds the capacity, greater weight, and almost negligible difference in girth is your kind of thing, then have at it.

The whole "if you need more than X rounds, you're doing it wrong" is a ludicrous argument with handguns.

The real world answer for handguns is the most hits you can make, in the most important places you can land them, as fast as you can. This rewards capacity and controllability.

Frankly, I don't buy into the 1911 swagger, and I'd rather spend my money on ammo and training. I am the actual weapon. There's a lot of guns I'd like to own, but 9mm by the 1000 is almost always the right answer.

1stmar
July 3, 2016, 07:28 PM
The first question you should be asking is what type of handgun do I want carry. If you decide it's a 1911, then maybe a Wilson or Baer is the way to go. 1911s aren't for everyone, I love mine but they are heavy by comparison, mostly single stacks with less capacity (though I have 4 para high caps- too heavy) and can be expensive. Great guns, but figure out what you want to carry before spending the money on a Baer or Wilson. If you decide the 1911 is what you, then do the research on what features you want. Wilsons are very nice, but I'm not spending that much for a carry gun. You can find something just as reliable, with all the features you want for much less, including Baer's. To be honest, you can find a dw or a colt for even less.

TunnelRat
July 3, 2016, 07:32 PM
If spending 3-5x the cost of a glock 19 for another firearm

I would point when talking Wilson it's more like 6x-10x the cost.

Targa
July 3, 2016, 07:40 PM
To each their own, is it worth it to you? That's all that matters. As for me, nope, I couldn't care less about a custom anything and will never own a custom firearm. See, to each their own.

K_Mac
July 3, 2016, 07:45 PM
The 1911 carries less in its magazine, but that is what extra magazines or for, and if you cant take out 1-3 guys with 10rds, you need more training.

How much training have you had? As has been said, bullseye shooting is not the same as typical defensive situations. I once thought I was pretty good too; then I started learning how to use a pistol in self-defense, and realized just how much I didn't know. Taking out three committed, armed bad guys with ten rounds happens all the time in the movies, far less often in real life.

With all that said, if you want to carry a high-end 1911, more power to ya!

Bartholomew Roberts
July 3, 2016, 08:32 PM
As someone who carried a $2,000 custom Hi-Power for 15 years plus, there is no way to practically justify the expense. It is just one of those things you do because of intangibles. A Glock 19 will do everything you need a defensive sidearm to do - and probably have a better service life to boot.

On the other hand, the small joys of owning a nice pistol you really want are amortized pretty well over 15 years ;)

Model12Win
July 3, 2016, 09:49 PM
While a Glock 19 will probably do, you'll never have the same reliability or accuracy as a Wilson or Nighthawk.

It's hard to put a dollar value on the price of your life or the life of your families. That's up for you to decide, but for me, yes it is worth the cost because I want the best. Myself and my family deserve that.

YMMV.

K_Mac
July 3, 2016, 10:19 PM
While I am not a Glock fanboy, and think a good 1911 is a joy to shoot , I would take the G19 for a carry gun every time.

While a Glock 19 will probably do, you'll never have the same reliability or accuracy as a Wilson or Nighthawk.

For combat accuracy and reliability in all conditions, the Glock is going to be very hard to beat at any price.

It's hard to put a dollar value on the price of your life or the life of your families. That's up for you to decide, but for me, yes it is worth the cost because I want the best. Myself and my family deserve that.

To imply that you value your life and the lives of your family more than I do mine because you spent more on your handgun than I did, is as insulting as it is inappropriate. There are countless choices of handguns available, that cover the price spectrum and are perfectly fine choices for self-defense. That sort of patronizing comment adds nothing to this discussion.

TunnelRat
July 3, 2016, 10:33 PM
While a Glock 19 will probably do, you'll never have the same reliability or accuracy as a Wilson or Nighthawk.

I've taken full day and multi-day courses with hundreds of rounds fired, ~ 500 per day, along with a fellow I know that has a Wilson 1911 in 45 ACP . My Glock 19 has hung in there round for round in terms of reliability, and to its credit the Wilson was solid. As for accuracy, my eyes are younger and allow me to shoot better in most instances.

It's hard to put a dollar value on the price of your life or the life of your families. That's up for you to decide, but for me, yes it is worth the cost because I want the best. Myself and my family deserve that.

While I have no problem with people using expensive pistols for self defense (no matter the cost if it ends up saving your life it'll be the best money you ever spent), the way this is phrased is a bit much. It makes it seem like, for comparison, that unless I buy a Volvo I don't care about my family's safety, when the reality is there are a number of cars with 5 star crash ratings and any manufacturer can make a lemon. For that matter we can't all afford Volvos. I'd love to own a Wilson, but I'm not going months without a pistol while I try to save up the money. If you have the money rock on, but the idea that I love my wife less than you love your family is, as mentioned above, insulting.

sigarms228
July 3, 2016, 10:53 PM
This, and only this...

IF YOU EVER USE IT, YOU MIGHT NOT GET IT BACK.
At the very least it is held until the investigation/court case is complete.

What you pay in legal/lawyer fees and time off work to defend your self from criminal charges (even if you are cleared) and possibly civil lawsuit will make the cost of a $2000 pistol feel like a pittance.

sigarms228
July 3, 2016, 11:00 PM
It's hard to put a dollar value on the price of your life or the life of your families. That's up for you to decide, but for me, yes it is worth the cost because I want the best. Myself and my family deserve that.

So do you own only Rolls Royce automobiles? Do your children go to private schools with armed guards? Do you live in an gated community with armed guards and the entrance? Do you get your medical care at Mayo Clinic?

sigarms228
July 3, 2016, 11:13 PM
On needs to decide for themselves what works best for them for a carry pistol. I completely trust my Glock 19 and I don't want manual safety on my CCW pistol. In the extremely unlikely chance that one would need to use their carry pistol their training, skills, awareness, and mindset will by far be the biggest factors in surviving rather than their choice of a particular weapon among the best available combat pistols and IMO the Glock 19 is among the best.

boondocker385
July 4, 2016, 12:40 AM
If as handgun is your only choice, more rounds out of a proven design is better in my book. This isn't a video game or a training exercise and volume is hugely important. A gunny said once, if you need to reload your sidearm, you need a rifle, if you need to reload your rifle, you need a squad, if your squad needs to rekoad, you need air support. He was right.

1goodshot
July 4, 2016, 06:44 AM
I don't think an expensive gun is going to protect you any better than a Glock.
Having said that I would love to have a pistol from Wilson .
You could also buy a lot of training ammo with that extra money and training is really the key to surviving a gun fight.

JDBerg
July 4, 2016, 07:42 AM
A lot of people (myself included) own $3,500.00 worth of 1911s, as opposed to a $3,500.00 1911. It all depends on how you want to spend your money. A 9mm Wilson Professional is a nice piece, I'd debate this point with anybody. But "IMHO" a Glock 19 is probably a better EDC.

KyJim
July 4, 2016, 02:03 PM
I've carried Baer and Brown 1911s without hesitation (currently carrying Dan Wessons). For me, carrying 1911s comes down to concealability and, most importantly, what I shoot best. Once you decide a platform, there are some good mid-price range guns like Colt and Springfield Armory.

Going to a high end 1911 is like deciding to wear a Rolex when a Timex keeps just as good as time. Another analogy is driving a Ford F-150 King Ranch 4x4 pick-up with super crew cab and all the bells and whistles when a standard two-wheel F-150 without a crew cab does what you need it to do. Some folks will pay extra and others think it is a waste of money. Your decision.

WC145
July 5, 2016, 06:48 PM
It's too bad these kinds of threads always go down hill so fast.


So, longshank, what do you think of the responses you've gotten so far??

stephen426
July 5, 2016, 07:26 PM
Longshank,

Higher end guns are a joy to shoot and can be very accurate and reliable. Will they really do a better job than your Glock 19? That is really questionable in a self defense situation. Most gun fights are more about getting lead quickly on target rather than shooting a bulls eye at a great distance.

Glocks are highly reliable, highly corrosion resistant, and offer a lot of firepower for the weight. You can spend a few bucks on your Glock 19 if you really want including adding night sights, larger mag well, larger slide release, and maybe a trigger job. I would skip the larger mag release as you don't want to risk accidentally dropping your mags.

I have my range toys including Les Baers and Sig P210s. I carry a Kahr PM9 because it is small enough and light enough to fit in my pocket, is corrosion resistant, and is very reliable. When it is all said and done, (hopefully) most of us will go through our lives without ever having to draw our guns in self-defense. Carry what you want.

Tucker 1371
July 5, 2016, 07:35 PM
I wouldn't want a carry gun I couldn't easily replace. If you are unfortunate enough to have to use it law enforcement will take it as evidence until your case is disposed of (they do this with their own weapons in officer involved shootings, don't blame the cops). Governments being what they are, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. You will have to bug the living hell out of them to get it back and it will take you probably well over a year if not two.

That said I don't carry a super cheap gun, my CZ75 SP01. But it wouldn't be as hard to replace as my Colt Rail Gun. And it's arguably a more logical choice for a defensive handgun. It would be difficult but I could replace it in about 6 months.

Ride Madone
July 6, 2016, 03:35 AM
I love 1911's and I absolutely hate Glocks. Having said that, if I could choose only between the Glock 19 and a 1911 to carry, it would be the Glock 19. During the years I worked at my departments range and did CCW qualifications, I saw far too many 1911 issues to ever carry one.

I own a Wilson Combat Tactical Supergrade that has been 100% reliable. I would still choose the Glock any day of the week.

By the way, having a great trigger is all good and well, but if you are ever in a real shooting and have to pull the trigger you won't know the difference. Three shootings, three different guns and I don't remember the trigger pull on any of them.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Lohman446
July 6, 2016, 11:13 AM
This, and only this...

IF YOU EVER USE IT, YOU MIGHT NOT GET IT BACK.
At the very least it is held until the investigation/court case is complete.

So if you can afford to throw away a grand or two, feel free.
Otherwise, get some plastic fantastic, or some 3rd Gen S&W semi-auto for under $500,
and enjoy knowing you can quickly and easily replace either inexpensively
should you have to use them in defense of family or friend.

While what you say is likely true I expect, in the case of needing to use a firearm lawfully against another individual, that a few thousand dollars on the firearm are going to be high on the list of concerns. The financial costs will likely make that few thousand seem minor.

michael t
July 6, 2016, 12:15 PM
My 9mm carry is a Colt Commander . Wilson a dream gun for me . Colt will work fine for a SD carry gun . With lots of money left over for practice ammo and gear .
My most expensive 1911 is a Dan Wesson. My carry 1911 are all Colts

dajowi
July 6, 2016, 04:45 PM
"While a Glock 19 will probably do, you'll never have the same reliability or accuracy as a Wilson or Nighthawk."

Probably so.

But a good revolver will be more reliable and can be just as accurate as a Wilson or Nighthawk Custom. So it's all relative.

Baba Louie
July 6, 2016, 06:41 PM
"If you've got the money honey, I got the time..." (thanks Lefty)

Love reading the logix and rationales behind each either or dis or dat positions...

It's only your money, not mine. It's only your life, not mine.

Sometimes I'm worth a buckfiddy. Sometimes a G, but never yet have I been worth 2G+.

sigh

I'm just not THAT worthy.

YMMV

Here's my take. If you're a newbie, buy a good 500-800 gun, spend 2.5 on ammo and classes initial 12 months. Maybe more classes and more ammo the next 12 months. Serious money and serious time investment.

When you hit "that place", you'll know. You Are A Serious Student.

Once you analyze where you're at "studying" and when your finances are right, you'll make your decisions, do what you want, with a lot more of life experience under your belt worth protecting, be it a J-frame 38 or a custom one of a kind Korth/Sphynx GyroJet

It's the Indian, not the arrow. But some of the expensive arrows are oh so sweet, are they not?

James K
July 6, 2016, 06:58 PM
I have long believed and said never to carry a gun you can't afford to lose. If you have to use the gun, you will almost certainly lose it, probably forever. Even if you come off clean, the chances of getting the gun back are slim to none in most jurisdictions. To put it simply, the best carry gun is a plain gun, reliable but not anything especially desirable.

Jim

JDBerg
July 7, 2016, 08:37 AM
Going to a high end 1911 is like deciding to wear a Rolex when a Timex keeps just as good as time.

Going a little off topic here. A watch ain't a gun & vice-versa. There are other reasons to own a Rolex than to be able to tell time accurately. My cellphone keeps much better time than my Rolex Submariner or my Seiko. I have turned down twice what I originally paid for my Rolex when it was new 18-1/2 years ago. Having something of value I can pass along to my Son when it's time is the "important" reason I still have that Sub.

Back on subject now. The only gun you should ever carry is the one that works best for you. My Walther PPS M2 9mm is one of the best EDC pistols I have found so far. It is reliable and accurate and carries nicely with every type of holster I have tried with it. With 2 extra 8rd. mags in addition to the 6 & 7 rd. mags that came in the box, I'm all in for way less than a new Glock 19 or 26. I have (4) 1911's and (2) Glocks and they are all great and work well for their intended purpose. But that Walther is what I'm packing!

TunnelRat
July 7, 2016, 09:26 AM
It is reliable and accurate and carries nicely with every type of holster I have tried with it. With 2 extra 8rd. mags in addition to the 6 & 7 rd. mags that came in the box, I'm all in for way less than a new Glock 19 or 26.

Before the mags you're talking a $100 difference between those pistols. I'm not sure that's "way less". Compact or subcompact pistols usually go for more money than single stacks, the same is true for Walther if you look at the price of a P99/P99c vs. the PPS. For that matter, it seems weird to me to own and value a Rolex and worry about $100. One advantage of Glocks is, like those watches, it's very easy to resell them (though Walther isn't exactly hard to resell to be fair). If you like the Walther rock on, I have nothing against it. But I do think $100 difference is a different ballpark that the potentially $3000 different possible with the pistols the OP mentions.

KyJim
July 7, 2016, 02:43 PM
A watch ain't a gun & vice-versa. There are other reasons to own a Rolex than to be able to tell time accurately. My cellphone keeps much better time than my Rolex Submariner or my Seiko. I have turned down twice what I originally paid for my Rolex when it was new 18-1/2 years ago. Having something of value I can pass along to my Son when it's time is the "important" reason I still have that Sub.You've missed the point entirely. There ARE other reasons to carry a certain kind of gun than simple functionality -- like pride in ownership and passing down a fine instrument (just like the Rolex).

Personally, a Rolex would be wasted on me but I understand why others would want to own and wear one. Others think a high end 1911 is a waste, and that's okay with me. BTW, I'm not a gun snob. I own a Bersa Thunder .380 and a police surplus S&W Model 10, among other handguns.

I do believe what James K said is true: "I have long believed and said never to carry a gun you can't afford to lose." I wouldn't like losing one of my Browns but I wouldn't lose sleep over it either.

rkbanet
July 9, 2016, 01:41 AM
This is a great question, but it has IMHO an easy answer. You should buy what you like and can afford. I have 2 main carry guns... A Clark Meltdown based on a Springfield Trophy Match, it took 8 months to get. Also a very fine 1943 Colt Civilian to Military Transfer M1911A1. In 43 Colt shut down tg civilian M1911A1 production line and moved the partially completed pistols to the military line. These have a mix of civilian and military markings. The weapon is worth $6000 - $7000. I carry both weapons in custom sharkskin holsters, belts and mag carriers. My favorite watch is a $4000 Omega Chronometer, not a Rolex fan. Although I have been kicking around the idea of getting a Patek Philippe. Which would make the Omega seem cheap!

Folks don't buy expensive things mainly for two reasons...

- They do not appreciate them.

- They cannot afford them.

They are of course a few that do not want something that is "ostentatious", how CENSORED-ing boring is that!

I love capitalism.

Dreadnought
July 9, 2016, 05:19 AM
The potato is strong in this thread and forum, I think I remember why I was disenchanted with it those years ago. The arguments never change.

If you're asking, "Is X worth $Y," you're asking the wrong question. Don't go into debt because someone told you the only gun worth carrying is X, or you're not a man if you don't carry a gun worth Z, or your life is worth at least $Y. If you're young and don't have obligations and can afford a 1.5-3k$ gun, even if it's just a range toy, go for it. But don't take food out of your kids' mouths just so you can have whatever gun.

Train to an extremely proficient level with instructors (only perfect practice makes perfect), then decide if the gun you carry is sufficient for the threats you may encounter in whatever environment you may be in on any specific day. If all you have is a G19, then that's what you use. It's a good multipurpose gun, very well tested and lots of options as far as trigger upgrades, slide and barrel customisation, et c. The Gen4s have a better grip angle than the older gens. My wife has one and it's a nice, controllable 9mm with the capability of carrying a 15-rd G19 mag, a 17-rd G17 mag, or 32-rd G18 mags as reloads.
Now, they can fail and I've seen ejectors and extractors trashed, et c.

Myself, I've been collecting guns and training with them and vary what i carry based on where I'm going and what I'm wearing. I'm a larger fellow, a perk of being a powerlifter, so I never had anything smaller than large guns until the Sig938 I bought last year and finally bought a J-frame this week after finding S&W made the 340 without that infernal lock. The Sig has gotten carried far more than any other in the past year.
I've carried Beretta 92s in full size, double-stack compact, and single-space compact. I bought a baby Glock (either a 26 or 27, can't remember) and hated how chunky it was ever for being a "subcompact". The slide width made it hard to conceal. I started carrying 1911s and found I could carry a .45 with more ease than the baby Glock and was shooting more IDPA matches in CDP class, so I bought a few Les Baers after having gone through first a Taurus PT1911 that I had to send back for warranty work, a S&W I had problems with the Swartz-style safety, a RIA GI (the old one with the two subs and a stub sights) that operated just fine but it lacked refinement, and a Kimber SIS that I bought to tide me over until I found a Baer TRS. The Baers really are quite a bargain based on the level of performance you get for the money and the fit compared to a similarly-priced kimber, and much better than the basic SW1911s. For best reliability out of a 1911 platform, you'll want to stick with ,45 ACP. I love the versatility of the cartridge and it's terminal ballistics may not look so good on paper, but the slow, heavy bullet is much better at making its way straight through the vitals zone than lighter, faster 9mm bullets. People can talk all they want about modern bullet technology, but good old Newton can not be beaten- greater mass always wins.

Tripp Research CobraMags are the most reliable in the widest range of ammo with just about any 1911. I swapped out all the internals of my WC, ACT, Novak, and LBC mags. Unfortunately, the WC mag tubes are not true 8-round tubes so you lose a round, but gain reliability.

However, with current environments and threats being what they are, I'd rather have SOMETHING with me rather than the giant gun I left at home because I'm wearing shorts today and didn't want to sweat my 'nads off to wear a 1911 or my G20 (10mm is the GOAT). I mention the G20 because I bought it as my hiking gun, but with all the terrorism going on in this country, I'd rather have that in the places I usually avoid, but don't have much choice but to go as a married man, such as shopping malls. Because of the overall power of 10mm and being able to carry 46 rounds of full-power 10mm as opposed to 25 rounds of .45 ACP, it's hard to beat. However, most of the time, either that Sig or now the Smith 340 will be in a pocket. The little gun you carry with you is infinitely more useful than the one you left at home.

I thought I'd mention, I went to one store intending to buy a SigP220-10 Leetsauce, but the clowns there wouldn't budge on the price, so I went to my favourite small LGS and bought the G20 and G19 along with all sorts of goodies (extra stick mags, ammo, et c.) for less than that one Sig.

TunnelRat
July 9, 2016, 09:52 AM
Folks don't buy expensive things mainly for two reasons...

- They do not appreciate them.

- They cannot afford them.

I drive 25,000 miles a year or so. Not the most, but about twice the average. I appreciate a BMW or Mercedes. I think they're impressive machines and a lot of fun to drive. When I bought my last car I could have bought one or the other. I didn't because frankly I knew after thinking about it that I could use the money elsewhere, such as improvements on my home or some time away with my wife. And for a lot less I could still get a fun car to drive that was safe and reliable. I have no problem with capitalism and I don't see anyone here saying companies like Wilson or Les Baer shouldn't exist. I went with what was the best for my purposes, as anyone really should. Everything we buy is a balance between price and quality.

vba
July 9, 2016, 11:13 AM
I didn't have any problems with breaking in as BigJim. My Baer PII was very tight when new yet after ~200 rounds of my heavy reloads (255 grain bullet and 5.0 grains of W231) the gun loosened up nicely.

It is the most accurate pistol I've ever shot and challenges me at every range session. The pistol has well over 15,000 rounds thru it now.

JDBerg
July 9, 2016, 03:15 PM
Before the mags you're talking a $100 difference between those pistols. I'm not sure that's "way less".

The PPS M2 is about $150.00 less than a Gen4 Glock 26 so I'll agree it's not "way less".

Compact or subcompact pistols always go for more money than single stacks, the same is true for Walther if you look at the price of a P99/P99c vs. the PPS.

Compact or subcompact (double stack) pistols do not "always" go for more money than single stacks, the new Sig P225-A1 retails for more than a standard P229, the Walther P99 is a great gun with a good following, but I'm not a fan.

For that matter, it seems weird to me to own and value a Rolex and worry about $100.

I bought & paid for the Rolex Submariner in 1998 (it was 12 months same as cash then) and I have actually worn it most days since then. I bought it because I liked it then, and could afford it at the time. Not exactly the same case if I had to buy it today at current prices. Fortunately, these have gone up in value quite a bit. I'd like to buy a Wilson Professional in 9mm, a gun I really like that serves an intended purpose for me. I'll eventually probably sell off a few of my guns and buy one in like new but used condition at a fair price, when I can find one.

One advantage of Glocks is, like those watches, it's very easy to resell them (though Walther isn't exactly hard to resell to be fair). If you like the Walther rock on, I have nothing against it. But I do think $100 difference is a different ballpark that the potentially $3000 different possible with the pistols the OP mentions.

I could not sell my Glock 17 at a price I was happy with and I've got the recent experience to prove it. Rolex watches will usually be a good investment, whether you want to sell it or not.

TunnelRat
July 9, 2016, 03:32 PM
Compact or subcompact (double stack) pistols do not "always" go for more money than single stacks, the new Sig P225-A1 retails for more than a standard P229

Lol, you're right you found an exception (and I think it's laughable what SIG wants for that model). I should have said usually. I'll edit it for you.

I could not sell my Glock 17 at a price I was happy with and I've got the recent experience to prove it

Sorry about that. My experience has been the opposite, but that might be a function of just the stores around me. Used Glocks typically never sit around if they're in 9mm.

JDBerg
July 9, 2016, 06:58 PM
Sorry about that. My experience has been the opposite, but that might be a function of just the stores around me. Used Glocks typically never sit around if they're in 9mm.

Used 9mm Glocks always seem to go fast and if somebody else wants to give away their gun so that an LGS can make a big profit, that's fine by me! I will always walk away from a trade that I feel I'm not getting a good deal on!

TunnelRat
July 9, 2016, 07:11 PM
if somebody else wants to give away their gun so that an LGS can make a big profit, that's fine by me!

Depends on the store. Some fleece you, some don't. I'm fortunate to have one that typically doesn't, or I just sell it on consignment if I can wait.

I will always walk away from a trade that I feel I'm not getting a good deal on!

Wouldn't expect anything else. :)

orionengnr
July 10, 2016, 02:28 PM
Okay, lots of thread drift here.

Back on topic.
Carry what you shoot well.
Carry what you like.
Bottom line:
Your money, your choice.