.40 Caliber Owner Rejoice!

[IanS]

Before S&W put its tail between their legs and ran they produced a combat cartridge that perfectly suits modern defensive shooters. LEOs and civilians are discovering a now widely available cartridge that perfectly blends size and performance!

But due to the internet:
Lack of accuracy that,:confused: not feed reliable this,:( kBs blah,:rolleyes: and too snappy Ohh!:o

Go ahead and keep shooting the ancient 9mm and .45s (I still do), while us .40 caliber shooters will wait for you guys to catch up!


I just had to get that off my chest. Bring on the Flames! Especially all you .357 Sig shooters.:D

[George Hill]

I smell troll...

[IanS]

Really? Was what I said really that bad? Sorry, I'll tone it down.


I just felt the .40 has been unfairly maligned for too long.

[Edited by Ian11 on 02-16-2001 at 01:22 PM]

[David Scott]

Caliber choices seem to me like religions. You've got born-again .45ers, Orthodox 9mms, the .357 Fellahin and New Age .40s. All of them do about the same thing, success depends more on how you use it than what you chose, and none of them will have much luck persuading the others.

[Justin]

So is there a term that would be suitable for adherents of multiple religions? :D

[Coronach]

Sorry, had to do it...

Mike

[STEYR M-357]

No thanks, I'll stay with my 357 SIG

[JJCook]

And rejoice we will. The majority of discussions are people who practically eat sleep and breath GLOCK, how can I get my GLOCK to cook and clean, how many GLOCKS do you own, and then hear the bashing of the ever so snappy, wanna be 10mm, unreliable .40 S&W. Bottom line is, people like effective tools. It just so happens that the .40 S&W is. Long live the .40!!!

Semper Fi-
JJC

[krept]

I gotta agree, I love the .40 for CCW. I'm a .45 fan for full sized semis, but really think the .40 shines out of the shorter bbls, just IMO. The 155gr Gold Dots feel just about as perfect out of a G27 as 230gr +Ps feel out of a USP.

I like the 9mm too, a lot...awesome, efficient caliber.

Heck, the 357 Sig and the 10mm flat out rock too! :rolleyes: Sheesh... I think I need to borrow some money... I feel like I'm missing out on the fun by only having one .45, .40 and 9x18 Mak...

[Dead]

How about if someone has all the above mentioned calibers? What would they be? ;)

[Desert Dog]

I love .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, 45-70, .450 Marlin, 45-110, 458 Winchester Magnum.... and the mislabeled 460 Rowland (really a .451")

Do you see a pattern here???

My current love is, of course, .45 Super... BUT...

There is another pretty young thing that is flirting with me at this time, and I hope to win her over if she will ever go out... 450 SMC!!!!

Sorry, 40 S&W is about .051" to .058" too small... :D

[petej88]

3 5 7 S I G

[IanS]

Sorry to start a caliber war again. I did not intend to but I guess my choice of words did. Just trying to get people to try out this round and decide for themselves whether its right for them or not.

Its just funny how people won't even give an inch in conceding that the .40 is a solid defense round. Personally, I respect all calibers 9mm and up.

[TCW]

I agree...the .40 kicks butt. The recoil and accuracy is affected by which gun you're using. The full size Sig P226 (mine)is an example of a great-shooting .40. I've shot the Sig Pro with good results too. My P226 has never jammed w/ the .40S&W, and it packs 3 more rounds than the P220 (.45) which is the same size. I don't think that the .45 is a better stopper. As a bonus, you can switch out the barrel for .357 sig, but that's very optional.

That said, I also love my Ruger P97 .45.

[justice4all]

shot placement

[Mylhouse]

I would have to say that the .40 is one of the most versatile auto cartridges available. With Hodgdon's new holy grail, I can safely push (<33,000 psi) a 135 gr HP at 1,480 fps out of a 4" barrel! That's 656 FOOT POUNDS of ENERGY! .357 Sig? As Hammer says, "Can't touch this!" That is even more foot pounds than the original 10mm Norma load. I sense a resurgence of .40 handguns among reloaders...

[viesczy]

Mylhouse, which powder are you using in the .40S&W to reach that velocity?

And if you are using that, why not step into the 10mm (more capacity/pressure) and push that 135jhp to an even higher velocity?

Derek

[PreserveFreedom]

Stepping into 40S&W is one of the wisest investments I have ever made.

[Mylhouse]

One word: LONGSHOT
This powder will revolutionize the .40 and 10mm rounds.

[johnwill]

Yawn...

[PigPen]

I own a Kahr in .40 S&W. I'm not at all sure why. I've considered getting rid of it.

You see to me the issue is why a .40. I have three a 9mms which are lighter to carry, have less recoil, are cheaper to shoot, and I have a rainy day stash of several thousand rounds of ball and several hundred rounds of hydroshoks.

I have 4 1911s in ,45 ACP which are more powerful, proven, possibly more reliable and safer (but I doubt it). I can already shot them pretty well for the amount of practice I do. I have 5 thousand rounds of ball ammo and several hundred Black Talons and hydroshoks.

Now the point is not what do I have against a .40 S&W. The point is what does it offer me that I do not already have. IMO, the cartridge is the answer to a question which has not been asked. If I bought one (and kept it), I would feel that I had to buy the same stash to hedge against Executive orders prohibiting me acess to ammunition as I have done with the other calibers :). And for what?.....What would I gain?. If the .40 had preceded either of the other two then one of them would be outside looking in but it did not.

No need for a 40 S&W that I can see.

PigPen

[krept]

PigPen - you hit the nail right on the head.

You really don't have much, if anything, to gain at all from goin to the .40. In fact, a fellow on GlockTalk was asking about trading in his G26 9mm for a G27 .40. My response? Don't do it. Stick with the 9mm, especially considering all the time and energy spent with the pistol and the cost of a new piece to fit the -exact- same role.

IMO: there really isn't any advantage a caliber can give that makes up for a lack in experience.

BUT... for those who do not already have a carry gun, home defense gun, CCW gun or established arsenal, but already have experience... the .40 can be a great choice (I'm not going to spew more propaganda as to why ;)). Like the fellow on GT, your roles seem to be filled perfectly. No need for a .40!

I have a fullsize .45 for HD and for open carry (USP), but did not have a CCW until recently. I love the .45, but was not thrilled by having it come out of a short bbl with larger dimensions. The .40 fit the bill perfectly, I wanted it, and was impressed with the ballistics out of a short barrel.

Nothing against the 9mm, but I had a completely fresh slate to work with and I chose the .40. On the other hand, if I had the cash to buy a P7M8, it would be 9mm all with no hesitation, but because of the package and not the caliber.

[bullet44]

sorry to rain on anyone's parade but the 40 never will
stand the test of time as the 9 and 45acp has, most
calibers stay around only if adopted by the military.

[skipperJ]

.40 S&W - IMHO, the best of the CCW calibers. Big ballistic package for a small handgun.

[hube1236]

40 is here to stay, whether or not it is adopted by the military. Whether or not it is better than your round is immaterial.

I seen a mil spec SA 1911 in 40 with 6 hi caps in SS for (used) $650 and I passed it up because I wanted my next pistol to be 45. What a f*(&$#*($ idiot I am.

I shoot 40, I will always shoot 40.

[Tecolote]

I'm out of the loop, which militaries adopted the 357Magnum and 380 as standard issue?

[gringo5]

GLOCK 32 with a extra .40 barrel. the best of both worlds

[bullet44]

Most 40's show signs of premature unlocking and wear
due to pressure and the fact that accuracy does not
equal either 9mm or 45acp tells me it will not hang
in like the above cal's.

[FratBoyTX]

IMHO, the .40 S&W has been adopted by too many police agencies to be ignored. So has the .357 SIG. While both are new, I think that both are here to stay. BTW, I carry a Sig P239 in .40, and will buy the .357 bbl soon.

CFB

[Quantum Singularity]

I don't like the .40 personally, but I acknowledge that it is one of the better semi-auto handgun defensive cartridges out there.

[Tropical Z]

And if you don't already own a .40, pick up an RAP at century international as fast as you can dial! :)

[Dr45ACP]

40 S&W does seem to be becoming the caliber choice of beaurocrats who cant decide between 9mm and 45 ACP...

[TCW]

....and for those that want more power than a 9mm but don't want to be stuck with 7 rounds.

[Dr45ACP]

yep, 7 rounds of 45 ACP is almost like no protection at all..... ?

[TCW]

7 rounds of .45 is fine, but some people prefer the 43% increase in capacity of an equally effective round.

[Dr45ACP]

Hmm... I thought my G30 held 10 rounds... maybe I better go check again...

[krept]

Yeah, but haven't you noticed that the G30 is too big for you? It's all cause of that darn .45 round. ;)

Everyone settle down, lets start a new thread if this is going to be a caliber war :D

[IanS]

Now, now, no fighting in the sandbox. Why don't you two exchange email addresses? Or.... maybe not.

I think the saying goes, "To each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" or something like that. Guns are not one size fits all.

I'm sticking with the .40 as my primary for compelling reasons and conclusions. "Compelling" because these were reasons that were important to ME. So the following are personal reasons only applicable TO ME. I decided against the 9mm and .45 after owning several different models in all 3 calibers. Again this was after my personal journey, YMMV.


.45 ACP: great round but needs a larger or thicker pistol. 1911s are either too big or needs to shoot stout +P rounds out of compact barrels to retain its "legendary" performance. (I don't like using +P in any of my guns.) If it "fits" you goody for you, it didn't fit me. (10mm kinda applies here too)

9mm: I can shoot this round more effectively for combat than any other caliber because of its soft recoil. With good hollowpoints its a very effective round. But, at the range I kinda like the feel of stout recoil in my hands. So I feel rather bored shooting 9mm.

.357 Sig (or the 9mm +P+): Superb cartridge and am tempted (the P226/P229 is like butta') but personally I'm a bit tired of playing musical chairs with different calibers and guns. Don't want to make another expensive switch. Also, still expensive to shoot. Sure it may ALLEGEDLY be more powerful and accurate than the .40 but for combat we are really splitting hairs here. The difference in my mind is not enough to make a switch.


So I'm ready to settle down. I'm tired of the dating scene. I've decided to make the .40 my constant companion. Now, the only thing I need to decide is whether I like Sig or Glock better.:)

[TCW]

Since I prefer the Sigs (ergonomics, quality, reliability, reputattion...etc.), my choice was between the P226 (.40/.357) or the 220 (.45). The 226 carries 10 rounds and the 220 carries 7. Those were MY available Sig choices and that's what my numbers are based on.

[Rob62]

I too am a fan of the .40 S&W. I believe that it is as close as to a perfect all around cartridge as there is. It falls nicely between the 9mm and the .45 ACP. Of which I own guns chambered for both.

I haven't done much research on the 357 SIG but I am anti bottleneck cartridges in a pistol. (Just my personal preference)

Rob

[Casey]

The 40 S&W is like a Glock pistol to me. I have tried, very hard, to like this round. I can't. I haven't bought a Glock, but I have shot other folks, and it just dosen't fit me well; I can't shoot it accurately, either because they aren't accurate (the ones I shot) or I am not comfortable with them.

I went so far as to order, wait (9 months) and pay for a Les Baer Premier II in 40 S&W. The Premier II's are without a doubt excellent 1911's, and I know that this pistol is accurate because other folks are able to shoot it very well. I can't. I was never able to get any kind of groups with this pistol, either with open sights or with a Tasco Optima.

Before anyone tries to tell me that I am just recoil shy, and need to stay with my mild mannered .45 ACP's, I do shoot a 9x23 Win with excellent accuracy. Even when pushing a Hornady 125 gr FMJFP over 1600 FPS. This is out of a Colt 1911.

I don't know why I can't shoot 40 S&W. I have owned three pistols in 40 S&W; a Beretta Brigadear Elite, a S&W99 and the Les Baer. I have sold all three of them, because even with a lot of practice I still can't shoot them as well as my three .45 ACP 1911's or the 9x23 Win 1911.

Casey

[Will Beararms]

Word on the street is that Marshall and Sanow's studies of ACTUAL SHOOTINGS gives and edge to the .40 over the .357 Sig on penetration and expansion albeit a slight margin.

The .40 is gaining a new round of approval as agencies continue to adopt it. It has my seal of approval as well.

[Edited by Will Beararms on 02-22-2001 at 01:12 PM]

[IanS]

Will Beararms,

I'm guessing the .40's heavier bullet weight has something to do with that. Did it state whether they were 180 grainers or even something lighter? (I'm guessing most LEO's are using 180 or at least 165/155.) Though its highly debatable whether Marshall/Sanow is the final word on performance I tend to trust their findings more than "lab" tests.


Within a given caliber its funny how certain combinations of bullet weight and velocity seem to work better than others. But the .40 seems like its fairly consistent as manstoppers in most weights while heavier bullets has the added advantage against walls and glass. Of course bullet design has come a long way to raise the performance of all loads.

[Peter M. Eick]

The 40 $&$ would be great, if it were just a 10mm!!!!

[BrokenArrow]

FBI gel results, after cloth:

124/9 +P Gold Dot 20/.53 (410 ft lbs)

125/357SIG GD 19/.54 (506)

155/40 GD 18/.57 (475)

185/45 GD 14.75/.68 (453)
200/45 GD 18.8/.55 (490)
230/45 GD 14.3/.70 (370)

They all look pretty good to me.

Seven (7) shots is plenty. If I ever need to use em again, it will be just like the last time: over before either side gets past that. <G>