1911: Rail or Not?

[Model12Win]

For the 1911 pistol, I see some have rails now. They look cool, and useful for the mounting of a flashlight.

But, I've heard some say the rails are stupid. The rails are fat, don't allow so much of the different holsters, changes the balance of the pistol, are ugly (and stupid), and you are better off with NO RAIL on your Colt's semi-automatic belt pistol of army caliber. Instead, you are supposed to hold the flashlight in your support hand and do a crossed arms thing that looks pretty rad.

So, what gives yall?

[P71pilot]

No rail. If you can't accurately shoot a 1911, you probably can't shoot any handgun well. Because of the ease of accuracy they allow, there is no need for a lazer. I believe a flashlight just gives away your position so of you are using one humans would target you and animals would run from you. So I figure a weapon light Is useless, for me. I have night sights so I can see my sights.

Also it does make it much harder to find holsters, also the rail has been sometimes known to be a weak point in the frame and cause the frame to crack. I believe this is a reality for cast frames especially aluminum or alloy.

For me they are just a hinderence. Although they do look cool. Just not for me

[Whiskey6]

Myself, I don't care for a rail on the 1911 or a Sig for that matter. Most of them look like they have a gun on a rail not the other way around. I did have an HK USP that I really liked but, the rail was kinda subtle and the gun had always looked that way.

[JWT]

To me they just aren't a 1911 when they have a rail. Like them much better without one.

[Targa]

My 1911? Not a chance. Yours? Sounds like you like them, thats what matters.

[rwilson452]

no rail for me but at my age my night vision isn't what it was so I installed a CTC laser grip. no issues with holsters. Oh, no flashlight.

[44 AMP]

no rail, no light, no extended anything (especially grip safety) for me, thank you. The only improvement a GI 1911A1 needs is more visible sights.

[Hawg]

A rail? Awwwww Hail to the naw! I actually bought a 1911 that had an aftermarket rail on it. I took it off and tossed it in the trash. Coated the threads of the screws with JB Weld, tightened the snot out of them and filed them off smooth on the backside.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/rebel727/1911/12121.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/rebel727/media/1911/12121.jpg.html)

[2ndsojourn]

Either you can shoot or you can't. Rail mounted accessories on a 1911 is like training wheels on a bike.

[TunnelRat]

Either you can shoot or you can't. Rail mounted accessories on a 1911 is like training wheels on a bike.



This confuses me. I am not gifted with the ability to see in the dark. I guess I fail to see how using a rail for a weapon mounted light is evidence that someone "can't shoot."

[smee78]

I voted yes for the rail, I believe the addition of a light on a weapon is a requirement for a home defense gun. I like to keep my free hand open to use as required.

Weather the light is mounted on a gun or in your free hand it is still a light and the would be thief will still see it so your not really giving away your position with it mounted on your gun.

I cannot see at night and require a light to identify my target so a light is nessary item, I also have a set of night sights on my home defence gun to help them stand out against the bright light being used.

[WVsig]

I voted yes for the rail, I believe the addition of a light on a weapon is a requirement for a home defense gun. I like to keep my free hand open to use as required.

Weather the light is mounted on a gun or in your free hand it is still a light and the would be thief will still see it so your not really giving away your position with it mounted on your gun.

I cannot see at night and require a light to identify my target so a light is nessary item, I also have a set of night sights on my home defence gun to help them stand out against the bright light being used.

This is not the case IMHO. A light in the offhand is a very different tool then a light on a rail. The way you use the light is very dependent on how it is deployed. That is one of my personal pet peeves about rail mounted lights. Too many people deploy them the same way they use a light in their offhand.

I vote no but if the OP wants one and wants to learn how to use it properly who am I to say how he should spend his money. On the other hand it does not sounds like the OP knows how to hold a light in the offhand either. Maybe a link will help him/her.

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/why-you-should-carry-and-know-how-to-use-a-tactical-flashlight_072013

[BarryLee]

I’ve got a few 1911s and none have rails however, I don’t see anything wrong with them. Some say it isn’t a “true” 1911 if it has a rail or beavertail, external extractor, 80 system firing system, etc, etc. I understand these sentiments and have one 1911 which is a GI style gun and I like the very classic look. However, I do find myself strangely attracted to the new Colt M45A1 rail and dirt colored paint job included.

Style and technologies evolve and individuality is a good thing. So, bottom line, unless the folks that dislike the rail are planning to buy your gun for you go ahead and buy whatever you want.

[Tactical Jackalope]

I bought a Springfield Armory TRP Operator. Bull barrel, adjustable sights, and a rail.

Fast forward....

I now own a Springfield Armory TRP...



Does that make my stance clear?

[BigJimP]

No rail for me....but whatever you like, its your gun not mine.

I don't want a light, lazers, etc on my guns.../ if I need a light I'll use it in my other hand.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Don't get me wrong. I carry a gun with a Surefire X300U on it. I'm a HUGE proponent of WML's. Just not on a 1911....

[44 AMP]

I believe the addition of a light on a weapon is a requirement for a home defense gun.

This subject has been discussed at great length before, and will, no doubt be discussed a lot in the future.

I happen to think it is a very POOR idea to mount a light ON a home defense gun. Not for the oft stated, and valid, reason that it tells the bad guy where you are, but for the more practical reason that the majority of people are NOT trained professionals, and having a light ON their weapon means that they ARE POINTING A LOADED GUN at everything they use the light to look at.

Trained police and military type "operators" are one thing. Average citizens who jus think they are, are quite another.

[Don P]

Trained police and military type "operators" are one thing. Average citizens who just think they are, are quite another.

Amen! I have heard shooters state that **** is real life training.:eek::eek::eek:

[TunnelRat]

Not for the oft stated, and valid, reason that it tells the bad guy where you are, but for the more practical reason that the majority of people are NOT trained professionals, and having a light ON their weapon means that they ARE POINTING A LOADED GUN at everything they use the light to look at.

With lights putting out 500 lumens, you can keep the pistol at the low ready and the spill from the beam has no problem illuminating decent sized rooms. For that matter you could always use both if that's a big concern to you. I like a weapon mounted light because it makes sure I at least have that light with me and mag changes are a lot easier. It also keeps my supporting hand free to move objects and people. One way around this is to use a handheld light that has a strap.

Trained police and military type "operators" are one thing. Average citizens who jus think they are, are quite another.

The police where you are must be on a different level than those around here.

[WVsig]

With lights putting out 500 lumens, you can keep the pistol at the low ready and the spill from the beam has no problem illuminating decent sized rooms. For that matter you could always use both if that's a big concern to you. I like a weapon mounted light because it makes sure I at least have that light with me and mag changes are a lot easier. It also keeps my supporting hand free to move objects and people. One way around this is to use a handheld light that has a strap.

The number one contention that a weapon mounted light is no good is because you have to point a gun at anything you want to look at but if you know how to use one you really don't as you have illustrated.

The issue is that most people do not know how to "spill" the light properly from a pistol mounted light or a hand held light. Like so many tools the weapon mounted light is too often improperly deployed.

[Tactical Jackalope]

I happen to think it is a very POOR idea to mount a light ON a home defense gun. Not for the oft stated, and valid, reason that it tells the bad guy where you are, but for the more practical reason that the majority of people are NOT trained professionals, and having a light ON their weapon means that they ARE POINTING A LOADED GUN at everything they use the light to look at.

That's one of the silliest things I've ever read on here.
If you're breaking into my home at night, you deserve to have the gun pointed at you to begin with. That's a blanket statement.

Not everyone has kids or house guests.

When I concealed carry with my weapon mounted light, I also have a handheld for that exact reason. But inside my home? I make the rules.

Plus, I want to see what I'm possibly shooting at in my home instead of just waiting for them to strike first. There aren't many arguments against weapon mounted lights that aren't based of emotion.

More benefits to having one than not.


And yes. I've take some low light courses.

[TunnelRat]

^ Agreed with WVsig. My contention though is that I often see here and pretty much everywhere else that we make recommendations based on the lowest common denominator. So if most people won't make the effort to learn to use a weapon mounted light properly than it is blanketly declared a "poor" idea. I get the idea behind being realistic as well as being cautious. I would point out though that a lack of training with a handheld light isn't good either. The tendency to subconsciously keep the gun up while searching with the light, as you alluded to, is there as well. Then there's the question of if the user has actually practiced some of the different techniques you linked to earlier in the thread in terms of shooting, as well as manipulating the pistol while maintaining control of that light. Training is the key with any of this, and I will fully admit that most people, even myself at times, love to buy new tools and not actually learn the best way to use them. I'd just rather advocate that people learn how to use them rather than saying don't buy them at all.

[gyvel]

A useless affectation. It's the latest gimmick du jour.

[Uncle Malice]

Only if it's a Springer Professional. :)

But in general, no.

[Model12Win]

Constantine: why do you not like a light on a 1911 but it's okay on other pistols?

[Tactical Jackalope]

Constantine: why do you not like a light on a 1911 but it's okay on other pistols?

Personal reasons. It's like putting a Toyota Supra factory rear spoiler on a 1969 Mustang.

I also do not conceal carry or use any 1911's for defense at this time.

[Mr. Hill]

A rail ruins the smooth contour of the pistol, which is why I don't like them (especially on a 1911), but that's an aesthetic matter. To each his own.

[christian812]

In the US, you have a 1911 culture.
In Belgium, it is all about BHP.

I can't imagine a rail on my 1978 BHP :eek:

[Lee6113]

No rail on 1911. It just looks.... Wrong. If I want a rail it'll be on a different polymer gun.

[rodfac]

Personally, I've got a cpl Sigs with rails...plus one Glock...my night stand gun A P226 Mk25 in 9mm has a light on it plus tritium type night sights per Sig. For a night stand gun a light is very useful in my opinion. But for general carry, it's just too much for a citizen. Too, I find that P226 tends to hang up on the leather holster I use...it's the notches that bind it up.

Since I don't have a 1911 with a rail, and do carry it often day to day, I'd say, "no rail". If you're using it for night stand use and that's all, rail on!

I can't imagine a rail on my 1978 BHP Now that WOULD BE an abomination!! Well said my friend!

Rod

[Hawg]

FWIW a pistol is not my go to home defense weapon. It is a short barreled pump shotgun(no light). IF there's so many intruders that 7 rounds of 00 buck won't take care of them I'll use the 1911 to fight my way to the next shotgun....Which basically means I'll be firing it with one hand while reaching for the shotgun with the other.:D

[TunnelRat]

A useless affectation. It's the latest gimmick du jour.

It's been a really long day I guess... I forgot sometimes that people have been around twice as long as I've been alive. What's a fad to some people is pretty well established to others.

[Model12Win]

Thanks gangs.

So I learned that the cross arms flashlight is the "harry method"

Is it better than a weapon mounted light?

PS: Nightstand use for HD duty will be the pistols #1 job, but will get plenty of range time for training and fun not to mention it will perform in the doings of the plinkings.

[TunnelRat]

So I learned that the cross arms flashlight is the "harry method"

Is it better than a weapon mounted light?

"I've heard this bedtime story before."

My point here is now you're basically asking handheld versus weaponlight and it really isn't 1911 specific. We have debated this so many times here, and you'll find articles both in magazines and online by trainers from today and in the past. Really, a Google search is in order. You're also more into a tactics and training question when you go there, imo.

My only comment on the Harries method is that your light holding hand is below the pistol. If you're searching with the light it sort of forces you to aim the pistol at the same spot, which as many people have noted is probably the biggest downside to weapon mounted lights. If you want to lower the pistol to the low ready the light is pointed at your feet. Like I mentioned before the spill of many lights can illuminate a room by itself, but I feel in doing that you're sort of losing the benefit of a handheld light and some handheld lights aren't as powerful as the weapon mounted options so the spill is less (though that's not always the case). You could have the light up by itself, just make sure that when you bring the pistol up that you go around your arm instead of sweeping yourself with the muzzle. I like the Rogers a bit better for those reasons. I also like the neck line over the "FBI" hold, but that's another topic in and of itself.

[Tucker 1371]

If it's a handgun for looking at, no. If it's for shooting yes. I prefer options over aesthetics. If you think a flashlight on your handgun is useless try clearing rooms and opening doors with a flashlight in one hand and a handgun in the other, it's very, ah, fumbley. If it's not your home defense gun or you don't keep any doors closed in your house, or your HD plan doesn't require you to secure other member of the family in other rooms, then disregard.

One advantage a rail offers to a shooter vs a non-railed 1911 is that it adds about 3 oz to a steel frame gun, a little less than 10% of the overall weight of a full size gun, which can provide a slight advantage in absorbing recoil.

[turkeestalker]

I voted no rail because I think that there are enough 'Tupperware' handguns out there with rails molded into them already, why bastardize the classic perfection of a 1911 with one? It just seems sort of sac religious to me... but then when someone asks me how I'm doing, I usually tend to respond, "old and grumpy". ;)

[JDBerg]

No rail yo

A universal rail looks OK on my Glocks and an HK P2000 and USP, a picatinny rail looks bad on everything especially my HK P30!

[buckmt1]

Well, I'm not a rail fan nor a light on the weapon guy. I really don't intend on going into dark room\areas..some posts touch base on key words "Proper Training" if your properly trained and You are comfortable in using a light system....use it!! Right? Wrong? There is no "Right" answer.




Artillery King of The Battle Field.

[Rogervzv]

I have done a 180 on this issue. At first, the idea of a rail was appealing. But I don't like the idea of a light mounted on a rail -- just not the right place for it. And if I want a laser I will do a Crimson Trace grip, which works great.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/Roger54/Gun%20Stuff/Gun%20Stuff%202/Pistols/DSC_2049_zpsa62da3f5.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/Roger54/media/Gun%20Stuff/Gun%20Stuff%202/Pistols/DSC_2049_zpsa62da3f5.jpg.html)

[lamarw]

Lot of pistols I do not mind a rail on, but not a 1911. It could be just me and all the years I have carried and seen it without a rail, an extended beaver tail, a skeletonized trigger and etc.

Just doesn't seem right. All the above are just a blasphemy to us older ex-soldiers. :(

[CajunBass]

I don't want one, but if you do, it's OK with me.

[claydoctor]

I personally detest rails and front cocking serrations. Whenever there is a poll on either , the overwhelming results agree with me , yet on many model 1911's , it's hard to avoid them .
It would seem to me that the manufacturers would get the message but I guess they sell enough of them to make it worthwhile . :confused:

[ProjectCamaro]

It depends on what you use the firearm for. I agree they look better without a rail but all of my firearms have a light attached and my 1911's are no different.

I carry a 1911 as a duty weapon every day so it just makes sense for them to have a light. Remember, a weapon light doesn't add much weight so my reasoning is why wouldn't you want to have it if you happened to need it? Just like carrying a firearm, you hope you won't need to use it but you'd rather have it and not need it.

Off duty I carry my full sized 1911 with a TLR-1 HL in a Raven Concealment IWB holster.

[Guv]

Like a camper shell on a 1969 El Camino SS396 :( Not cool!

[Rob228]

I have one with and one without, the only real difficulty is finding a nice holster for the one with a rail.

[Model12Win]

Seems like some are tied up in the looks department. Looks don't so much matter methinks. I'm more worried about performance, and defensive usage in the home and for open carry.