View Full Version : How long would your your magazines being loaded.
stdalire
May 16, 2000, 08:50 PM
I keep thinking how many hours/days/week does gunners keeping their magazines loaded.
My practice is, if for my home defense gun, during the night I will load 3 to 4 magazines . Then the following morming before I go to work I will unload 3 mags and let 1 mag loaded. When I got home from work again, on the night I will load the empty 3 mags, and unload the 1 mag that I left loaded but I return the bullets after several minutes when I think that the magazine spring stress is gone.
How about your practices, how would you treat your mags.
Thanks
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited May 16, 2000).]
Laz
May 16, 2000, 09:01 PM
I'm no expert but everything I have learned leads me to believe that constant loading and unloading is harder on the magazine spring than leaving it loaded. I have talked to at least a couple of gun manufacturers who told me their magazines are designed to be loaded fully indefinitely. There are good threads on this subject on rec.guns and shooters.com and no doubt here. Hope this helps. My .02 anyway.
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Lazarus
Coronach
May 16, 2000, 09:32 PM
This is, like, the mother of all controversies. Everyone has a different scheme, or no scheme at all, and you know what? It doesn't seem to make a damn bit of difference. ;)
Short answer: nobody knows.
I swap mine out every few weeks. Have yet to have one fail.
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
FUD
May 16, 2000, 11:02 PM
Best advise (IMO) that I have heard, and which I follow is the following:<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> Do not load your magazines to full capacity -- leave out one or two rounds. On a 10-round magazine, load only 8 or 9 rounds. While some may argue that that one extra round or two could mean the difference between life and death. It could also be argued that that one extra round or two could kill your spring and you have zero rounds to shoot. More is always better but I would rather have one or two less than have none.
<LI> Decide how many magazines you want to have on hand and buy three times as many. For example, from what I've read, you have 4 magazines loaded. Then, you should three sets of 4 for a total of 12 magazines. Keep one set (4 magazines) untouched so that the springs remain fresh as new for use in an emergency situation (this implies that you first test them out to ensure that they work properly). Of the remaining 8 magazines, keep 4 of them loaded (again, not to full capacity) during the winter and when spring comes, unload them and load up the other set. When summer comes, reload the first set.</UL>
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD http://users.net-lynx.com/~fudal/TFL/fud-nra.gif
Tonyadrik
May 17, 2000, 04:38 AM
I have four mags for my Glock 34 and I use 2 of them for a week. I load two rounds less than full capacity each morning, in the evening I take some rounds out and leave about 10 - 13 rounds in. After week has gone, I empty these two and do the same practice with two other mags. Previously I had G19 and alltogether I've practiced this for six years - never had any troubles with magazines or their springs. Works fine for me and I continue to do it this way.
P.S keeping mags loaded at almost full for several months (like during whole winter or spring)is something I wouldn't recommend to anybody - I've seen to many malfunctions resulted by this (like slide won't stay open after last shot on Sig P226).
Jim V
May 17, 2000, 05:30 AM
I keep 5 1911 magazines loaded constantly. If I think about it I swap them out for 5 of the spares (you can't have too many magazines). I have had no problems with failures to feed due to weak magazine springs.
My suggestion is: Do a search on springs, this is another question that has been been around the block several times. Like, "What is the best 1911 magazine?" or "ShockBuffs, any good?"
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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
Laz
May 17, 2000, 06:23 AM
I have not experienced a magazine failure but FUD and Tonyadrik touch on what I think is a good point: if a magazine spring is weakened it is probably not going to fail catastrophically but is much more likely to exhibit failure by either not feeding the last round or by not locking back when empty. Both of those conditions should become evident during practice and neither would likely be decisively disastrous should they occur during an armed encounter. At least if one believes the plentiful accounts and statistics available on numbers of rounds expended during the "average" shooting. To be honest, I generally keep revolvers as house guns. No spring tension to worry about but a guaranteed failure to feed after six rounds with no lock-back, making a reload necessary <G>.
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Lazarus
fubsy
May 17, 2000, 07:18 AM
A couple of partners of mine actually loaded some m16 mags and left them loaded for bout a year...no problems that Im aware of....I dont believe they were maxed out ......there still using those mags, and last I talked to them every mag they have is loaded.....it still boils down to personal preference...I keep only revolvers loaded myself, but im from the old school....also possible magazine failure from weak springs is another reason to look at a garand for defense....those enbloc clips dont weaken from sitting and the rifle can be loaded quickly.....although there might be other considerations with a rifle cartridge for some....Put a short little 18" barrel on that little puppy and youve got a fast handling semi auto defensive rifle...might consider rechambering in 308 too....fubsy.
[This message has been edited by fubsy (edited May 17, 2000).]
Andrewh
May 17, 2000, 08:49 AM
Lets see I have had my taurus for about 8 years now. I have 4 mags for it that stay fully loaded until I empty them at the range. Then I reload them before I leave. So on the average I guess they only get unloaded every 3 months or so and get cycled 5 to 10 times at the range. The only problem I have every had is failure to lock back on the empty. But it turns out it is the follower in the mag not the springs. Taurus replaced them for free.(the followers, not the mags. I didn't send them back afraid I would get the pc 10 rds.)
M1911
May 17, 2000, 10:18 AM
I've had four 30 round M16 mags loaded in the safe for several years. They are loaded with 29 rounds. I recently took them to a carbine class and had no malfunctions.
Jared
BrokenArrow
May 17, 2000, 10:38 AM
I load em and I forget em.
Have shot Beretta, SIG, 1911 GI contract pistol mags that had been fully loaded for months/yrs and they all worked.
OTOH, I hear some PDs have had probs they attributed to set mag springs in Glocks.
Izumi wrote an article in Handguns several yrs ago about this. Colt and SIG mags were fine after 6 months, the Glock mags were not. Know some people who have loaded Glock mags longer than that, and they were OK...
We'll never know for sure? :)
[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited May 17, 2000).]
M1911
May 17, 2000, 11:25 AM
I've had 16 rounds in my Glock 17 mags for years. No problems. Jared
ctc
May 17, 2000, 11:36 AM
I have 3 spare that I keep loaded and then empty them at the range (every week or so). After reading some of the replys I'll probably get a couple extra to keep unloaded and rotate through at regular intervals.
Coinneach
May 17, 2000, 12:26 PM
Metal fatigue is the primary cause of spring failure, and fatigue is caused by working the metal. IOW, leave 'em loaded.
Now, how many mags should I carry for my Buckmark when I'm hunting bear, and should I use FMJ or HP? :D
M1911
May 17, 2000, 12:41 PM
Coiineach: Is that brown bear or black? ;)
fubsy
May 17, 2000, 02:40 PM
PLEASE, NO more I wanna hunt bears with a handgun threads...please.....im in tears...please......I feel like I finally know how sensop feels bout them little green things..I saw on in my back yard the other day..............Id use the stingers...fubsy.
riddleofsteel
May 17, 2000, 02:49 PM
from the .22 handguns we had seen in bear scat i'd say they are not working very well.
mag question:
1. load mags for carry and backup (i load to max cap.)
2. you are shooting this carry gun a t least once every two weeks or so aren't you?
3. after shooting take down and clean mags.
4. rotate to backup set of mags
5. every year (depending on shooting volume)change mag springs.
6. stop worrying so much it will make you old
i had a friend that inherited an old Colt .32 ACP pistol that was a least 75 years old. according to his grandmother the pistol had been fully loaded for over 50 years and never fired (although it had been cleaned) pistol and original mag and springs fires like new. extended loading does not hurt them.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
[This message has been edited by riddleofsteel (edited May 17, 2000).]
DorGunR
May 17, 2000, 02:57 PM
I loaded 10 rounds in a 13 round magazine (Browning Hi Power) in 1972, left the States and did not return until 1979, did not fire my pistol using that magazine until 1987...the gun fired all ten rounds flawlessly. The same magazine still functions without any problems today. This may not work for all manufacturers, my Hi Power was manufactured in 1963 in Belgium.
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"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."
plinker2
May 17, 2000, 03:08 PM
I can only go from my experience. I have left my mags loaded constantly for 2+ years now with no problems. I shoot regularly, but instantly reload the mags. This is how they are stored, fully loaded. No problems yet. --plinker2--
Tecolote
May 17, 2000, 03:29 PM
I concur with those who've left their mags loaded for years without any problems. I've done the same. I only download by one round if I plan on leaving the mags loaded for long periods of time.
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So many pistols, so little money.
Gipperdog
May 17, 2000, 04:36 PM
I read an article once where the author did spring tests in various types of magazines. Final recommendation, summarized because I read this a few years back, was to not leave a magazine loaded to the max for long periods of time & periodically, relieve the spring pressure by unloading it. I think the Colt 1911 springs were the weakest, but even they lasted for a very long time fully loaded. Sig Arms had the best springs in their magazines of those tested. Those, you could almost leave loaded indefinitely. Personally, I have a Sig 220, a Colt Combat Elite, & a EAA Witness in .40 that I rotate every month. One's loaded & so are all the magazines for it. Next month, it's unloaded & one of the others is now loaded up. I'm very comfortable with any of these particular handguns, so changes in grip & shooting characteristics don't really affect me that much.
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Guard Freedom from those that "want to do it for the Children."
JNewell
May 17, 2000, 06:52 PM
Two relevant data points. A Vietnam vet I know found a ca. 1969 M16 mag loaded a few years ago and it functioned flawlessly -- more than 25 years after being stored.
A materials engineering guy once showed data that basically showed that springs actually lose strength from going back and forth, not from being compressed and left.
So store 'em and leave 'em is probably better than rotating them up and down.
JNewell
vega
May 18, 2000, 06:59 AM
Since I only have 2 sets of mags for each of my guns I rotate it every month (less two rounds to max). After reading this thread I'll
keep it both loaded.
vega
DOT, The HALO Group
May 18, 2000, 12:04 PM
Rotating your magazines is a good idea but we are not slicing atoms. Using a little common sense will help to make a comfortable descision. There are many opinons on the subject, many of them have merit. Use thier guidance and take a little time to find out what works best for you. Choose a ritual that you do ritualistically.
I get to the range about once every two weeks. At the end of my training session I will shot a drill with my carry loads. I carry a G-30 and the drill calls for 20 shots, something fun I do to end the day on a good note. When I have finished the drill I set the just fired magazines aside and load two fresh magazines with new carry loads then make ready my pistol. I take the magazines I set aside and put them in my gear bag for the next range day. Simple, but effective.
As far as loading magazines to max capacity. Again, do what makes you feel comfortable. A few years ago while rummaging through some of my gear bags I came across a magazine pouch with two fully loaded magazines for my secondary (P-226). After thinking about it for some time, I retraced the bag to a previous deployment about 18 months ago. Out of curisosity, I grabbed my gun and extra ammunition and headed to our range. I fired 200 rounds through the two magazines and they locked back each time. I retired the magainzes out of caution, but it was nice to know their capabilities or limitations whichever, you prefer. Don't just do something because someone tells you. Do it because it makes sense to you.
Later,
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www.thehalogroup.com (http://www.thehalogroup.com)
[This message has been edited by DOT, The HALO Group (edited May 18, 2000).]
stdalire
May 19, 2000, 08:24 PM
Greetings to every one:
What a good feed-backs from all of you. So! it depends on the user how he prefers on how to treat their magazines loadings, but I want to take the advise of those who said that leaving magazines fully loaded for a week/month and a year is still alright.
Also, I am glad to know the info given by JNewell re: a study of the Material Engineer, and the statement of Coinneach that "Metal fatigue is the primary cause of spring failure, and fatigue is caused by working the
metal.
Dot, the Halo Group mentioned a ritualistics acts of the gunner. I think I am like that, I am used to keep loading and unload my pistols every time I get off to work and I get back home on the night.
Thanks again for the good info from all of you and I minimized my very often practice of loading and unloading my magazines.
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited May 19, 2000).]
Captain Bligh
May 19, 2000, 10:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stdalire:
[B]My practice is, if for my home defense gun, during the night I will load 3 to 4 magazines B][/quote]
I really don't mean this as a flame or anything but I am curious. Just who are you expecting in the middle of the night? :D
Seriously, though I try to change out my (one) loaded mag. once a week. I sleep comfortably with one magazine loaded and in the .45.
RJ
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"Never turn your back on the crew."
Coronach
May 19, 2000, 10:34 PM
A question I have always wanted to ask.
I understand that yes, it is probably better to have 50 magazines on hand, just in case the Hells Angels decide to hold a kegger in your 9 year old daughter's bedroom some dark and stormy night. Okay, fine. You can never have too much ammo.
But there is a point of serious diminishing returns, and I think it lays closer to 1-2 mags than to the numbers some of us claim to have ready on hand. One forumite (I cannot recall who, and I'm too lazy to do a search) said that he read somewhere that its best to have X number of magazines fully loaded and ready to go at a moments notice. X was a nice big fat number in double digits. Precisely what kind of an intruder is this designed to defend against? A Yeti? ;)
Recall, the vast majority of 'gunfights' end up with one side firing 0-3 bullets (feel free to correct that stat, but its what I usually hear quoted).
If you sleep better at night knowing you have enough ammo ready to go that you could give Janet Reno and the INS pause, okay fine. Its a free country. I sleep quite soundly knowing I have either my off-duty weapon and one clip, or my duty gun ("the Big Dog" as my wife likes to call it) and one clip, close at hand.
If 17 rounds of .45 ACP isn't going to resolve the problem, its time to switch to plan B, 'cause plan A isn't working. :D
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
stdalire
May 20, 2000, 12:08 AM
Captain Bligh Good Afternoon!!!
I am following the the motto of a boy scout, "Always ready", and I believe the saying that in time of peace expect war. You said just who are you (I am)? -- I am just an ordinary citizen like you who always ready of any eventualities just in case, so I loaded several mags.
Look at those innocents civilians being kidnapped by the Abbusayaf? who are they? perhaps they are famous or in their own profession or line of business but were they spared to be kidnapped? The ordinary citizens being mobbed and or robbed in their houses and sometimes ends to killing or murder. Are they famous or not? I don't need to be somebody to wait that I will armed myself to the teeth. It is my practice and ritual as Dot the Halo group said. If you do practice of loading several mags is just fine, if not comfortable to it, don't do it. Just as simple like that. I am not inflamed I am just commenting or responding to your post. It is just a matter of belief and a practice/ritual. To answer your question also, if a person is somebody or famous, he don't need to hold a gun but hire body guards and besides rich and famous are well secured in their palaces with their guards, so it is us who are ordinary citizens to be armed because we are the prey of criminals and tyrants.
Note: my only question is how often we load and unload a magazine to so as not to impair the spring.
Thanks Captain.
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited May 20, 2000).]
Captain Bligh
May 20, 2000, 06:21 AM
Stdalire, well said.
Different folks have different things to worry about. Perhaps my existance is safer. Perhaps I only think it is.
Like, I said, I shoot .45 acp through a 1911. I don't fret over mag springs. I switch out mags once a week or so. There are accounts of mags left loaded for years that then function flawlessly.
I shoot regulary. I suppose I will continue not worrying about mag springs too much until my experience shooting tells me I was mistaken.
RJ
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"Never turn your back on the crew."
johnwill
May 20, 2000, 11:22 AM
I shot a few 1911 magazines that had been loaded for years, and I experienced no malfunctions. Their springs seem to have the same characteristics as some of my much newer magazines. I have a number of "ready" magazines for my AR-15's and a couple of pistols that are loaded, and when I shoot them, they shoot fine. I can't see any difference in the spring tension of those and the others that are sitting new in the box. Short of cheap springs, I doubt that leaving the magazine loaded is a problem.
James K
May 20, 2000, 03:57 PM
All your magazines must be unloaded and reloaded every ten seconds or the Blair witch will get you!
Seriously, I sometimes leave them loaded for years, but then I am not up on modern paranoia.
Jim
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