My 646 was a mess!!

[ThomasH]

My Dad was noticing some problems with the 646 he found for me, some of which were shocking for a "$1000 Performance Center" revolver.

He noticed a problem with the barrel, which looked like it had a bulge in it, right where it is mounted to the frame. ("Oh, right, there is a compression ring right behind the barrel, and that can happen if they put the barrel on too tightly.")

The double action trigger pull was lousy, with sticking points as you pulled. He even shot a box of cartridges through it, and the trigger was still lousy. ("Oh, yeah, well, sometimes they aren't as smooth as we would like.")

One of the lands of the barrel rifling was badly misshapen at the throat, he said it looked like the broach (sp?) had galled as it was pulled through. (I hope you all know what he is talking about! :-) ("Hmm, I don't really see what you are talking about, but we'll be putting a new barrel on for you.")

There were various pits and scraches in the finish. ("blah, blah...")

The front sight blade was bent to the right! ("blah, blah...")

He said he was too embarrassed to send it out to me in this condition, so he drove back up to Springfield, and stopped by the Performance Center to ask what the hack was going on there. He spoke with a PC representative who has very apologetic, but who was also a bit glib ("had an answer for everything").

One interesting comment by the rep, was that PC _revolvers_ are not assembled by the PC shop, like their auto pistols. They "design" them, according to this rep, but they are actually built by the regular revolver shop.

Well, I've met some of the revolver shop folks, and the good ones would be the right people to build a PC revolver, but I don't think their abilities are all equal. The ad for the 646 touts it's "Peformance Center tuned action", but no expert tuned the action on my 646, according to my Dad. It's hard to see how S&W can charge the amount they do for these special editions, if they are going to be sold to the public in the condition mine was. Even a decent QA should have found the problems it had (this is one of the things I do for a living), and kept the gun from shipping.

Oh well, it's back being fixed. (New barrel, new front sight, action tuning, surface polish, etc.) I guess they are following the "new marketing secret" of producing crap, and fixing it for the few consumers that bother to complain. At least my Pop complained.

Gee, the 646 is back at S&W at the same time as my recently purchased Model 66 (simliar lousy double action). Maybe my decision not to buy any more new S&W's can be now based to quality as well as politics!! Well, maybe my two recent experiences are the exception rather then the rule, but I'm in a bad mood right now...

Thomas

[wishbone]

My last visit to the S&W factory was a few years ago.It looked like a pretty old dumpy place at that time .Old machinery, old wood floors, and 4-guys pounding away at pistols with small hammers. They were the final assembly and check department before a test firing.The performance shop was in a small building that looked more like a 4 car garage.The greatest amount of activity was the SIGMA repair area.I felt that they were light years behind at that time.I'm not surprised at your problems.

[ThomasH]

Oh wishbone, wishbone, wishbone... (Gee whiz, I sound like my Mom!)

I've spent some time at the factory too, and I think you might amazed at what those guys can do with their little hammers.

S&W has a huge building filled with pretty new CNC machines, doing some amazing precision carving. And some very new barrel boring and rifling machinery. Their forging operations are mostly old fashioned, but that's only the forging. From there on they have very state-of-the-art equipment. All in all their ability to produce precision machined pieces of metal is top notch, in my opinion.

And then in final assembly, give me one of those little old men (or any mature professional gunsmith) with his files and hammers, any day!! I wouldn't want a machine assembled pistol, would you? I know we all hate the S&W managment, but let's not let that distort reality. Perhaps you only saw the grubby parts, and it is an old factory, but I think they can still produce quality products, if they want to.

Enjoy!

Thomas

[This message has been edited by ThomasH (edited May 10, 2000).]

[huge]

My personal experience - I examined a new 646 at a gunshow last weekend. Like yours, the front sight blade tilted to the right. I also examined a NIB 696 with a crooked rear sight blade. The last NIB Smith I purchased sight unseen had an intolerably heavy action and a metallic burr in one chamber that prevented extraction of fire cases. It's coming back from Springfield today. God bless. Hugh

[Will Beararms]

You are not alone. S&W is doing all kinds of bad things to lawful citizens these days. I hope you can get these problems worked out in short order for your sake------not for theirs.

BTW, I wonder if S&W will be participating in the Million Mom March? Nah, probably just a backdoor donation. :(

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited May 10, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited May 10, 2000).]

[Rex Feral]

It's bad karma gettin' you for buying S$W. ;)

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Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war.

[terridarri]

Its like one of those things our momma's told us when we were little, if you plan on doing something and you know its wrong it will never work for you.

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WHEN IT COMES TO FRIENDS THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT

[Oleg Volk]

Kinda puts Taurus QC into perspective. My own take is that older S&W designs (Model 10/15...1895 concept!) are good, new Taurus revolvers are almost as good and new S&W revolvers are as good as new Taurus offerings. Some S&W are better, some are worse, and T-guns are cheaper and come with an NRA membership.


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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA

[bk40]

play with fire, you will get burned!

[MakAttack]

Too bad. Sounds like destiny to me; kind of a "reap what you sow" scenario. I guess you could go back to the dealer to get it sent back to S&W..while you are waiting for it to be returned you could by another S&W revolver to play with :rolleyes:

Do the right thing. Sell the S&W Traitor Center Special, & go spend some money supporting a manufacturer that has enough backbone to stand for what is right.

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"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"
Thomas Alva Edison

[Gunslinger]

Thank you BK. ;)

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Gunslinger

TFL End of Summer Meet (http://204.235.96.21:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=46098), August 12th & 13th, 2000

[PLASTIC SIG]

I hate to laugh, but...


HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH


Sorry, but you knew it was coming.

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Why dont you get rid of that nickel plated sissy pistol and get yourself a glock. :::Tommy Lee Jones:::

[wishbone]

ThomasH --I am also amazed at what the guys with the LITTLE HAMMERS can do. Just read of all the problems just a few LITTLE HAMMERS seem to be doing.Most of the rest of the factory was deserted or on vacation,or at least thats what it looked like.Little activity, and few workers or machinery in action.That was a few years ago, as I said before,but the 2 CNC's they had were not doing anything at that time.It was easy to guess that many of the craftsmen were gone,and that business was far from good.

[PLASTIC SIG]

After checking this post for new activity I realized how arrogant i sounded. Im sorry for laughing at your frustrating ordeal. I really wasnt aiming at you personally, but at your actions for supporting S&W after what they have done to all of us. I apoligize for my actions, although I really dont think anyone that gives S&W money deserves any credit.


Tim

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Why dont you get rid of that nickel plated sissy pistol and get yourself a glock. :::Tommy Lee Jones:::

[Bubba]

Well... the one I found here in Texas didn't appear to be much better. My 1973 Python had a MUCH better action. Over the years I have heard so may people extoling the virtues of the Smith action. Yet I never felt they were anywhere CLOSE to the action on my Colts. This one did little to change my opinions. Even the 1985 Stainless Python I picked up last year was much better than the 646.

No... I won't be picking up any new or old Smiths.



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Bubba
IDPA# A04739
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It is long been a principal of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully. - Jeff Cooper

[ThomasH]

Hi Folks!

I hear my 646 is back to Connecticut, and now seems to in acceptable condition.

I also heard quite a saga about these pistols! From the PC "Firearms Plumber" (his real title, cool!) that my Dad talked to, this model is having problems, and there are almost zero spare parts. There were supposedly only 5 spare barrels in existence, for example, and every one of them has the same defects as mine, rough lands at the beginning of one or more of the rifling grooves, and being too thin where they mount to the frame, so as they are tightened, you get a "compression ring" inside the barrel that is smaller in diameter than the rest of the barrel. The gentleman said he fitted three of them to my gun before he could find one that would "shoot". He mentioned that these barrels were farmed out, I wonder why? Oh, by the way, at least the rough spots on my lands are of the "excess metal" variety, not the "missing metal" type. So maybe they will shoot away....I'll sure give it a try!! :-)

He also found a spare cylinder, that didn't have scoring around the chambers from a dull cutting bit, and set it back so that the gun would stop puncturing primers. He was glad to see I didn't have any extractor problems, he said there are no spares for these parts, and he has earned his title when he has had to deal with some 646's with extractor problems.

He adjusted the trigger nicely, mentioning that most of the trigger parts are actually made at the Performance Center, but that again, it was assembled by the regular revolver group. (And inspected by absolutely _no one_??)

The scratches were polished out, and the pits were in pieces that were replaced.

The front sight was replaced, and Pop started to say something about a gold bead, when he suddenly changed the subject!?! :-)

He took it to his hometown range, and shot a few different ammo brands, to make sure it no longer punctured primers on most of them, and it didn't have any problems at all. Nice trigger he said, especially the adjusted single action. About three pounds, and crisp. He shot some sandbagged 25 yard groups ranging from 1 inch through 1 1/2 to 2 inches. Smooth cylinder action, extraction, reloads, etc. He considers it acceptable, but is still shaking his head about the initial condition. Even the PC Plumber said something to the effect that "No one ever even looked at this." when looking at my gun.

He also is supposed to have said something like, "They will _never_ make this gun again! It was a poorly executed design, that has had problems in development as well as production."

Gee, I don't know whether to see that as a plus, in that my gun will be all the more unusual and conversation starting, or to worry about the day (heaven forfend) that my 646 might need a spare part! Oh well, it's only bits of metal carved up, I guess I could find someone to help me if I wanted to spend enough. Doesn't NASA use titanium? :-)

Oh yeah, the repairman did bugger up one of the frame cover screws, so Pop is waiting for some replacments before he has the poor thing sent out to me for therapy. No hurry, with our dumb, useless California "gun laws" I'll have to wait until the end of the month before I can even start waiting for this handgun, because I bought myself a birthday present Ruger 50th anniversary .22 _this_ month. Gosh, how criminal!

Whew! Long post, sorry about that, but what a weird saga! I'll post a new thread, after I've shot the 646 for awhile.

Thomas

[JNewell]

Good luck. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

[BillCA]

Thomas,

Check out this other thread:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1453954#post1453954

[Tamara]

Thomas posted this thread four and a half years ago. I doubt he'll read your missive above.