Strange glock malfunction

[Polinese]

So last night I go to dispatch a deer like I have plenty of other times. I fired and the round hit the deer, trigger reset as far as I remember and I holstered back up.

When I went back to my station to get a replacement round I pulled my mag out and realized it was still full... I pulled the slide back and found the empty casing still in the chamber...

I'm a bit more gun savvy than most of the guys on my job and I make a point to keep my weapon well maintained. I've never had a malfunction like this happen. Anyone have ideas on the cause? Weird powder charge maybe?

[chris in va]

Was the next round trying to feed? Have you upgraded or disassembled the gun at some point?

[Sharkbite]

Holybat guano!!

Good thing it happened in such a benign circumstance.

Obviously the cycle of action was interrupted. It sounds to me like the slide did not move fully to the rear (short stroked) for some reason.

If the slide had come far enough to the rear to eject (whether it did or not) it should have attempted to pick up a fresh round from the mag. Causing a feedway stoppage (type 3 malfunction). Same condition whether the gun extracted the case or not.

That you remember the trigger resetting, indicates the slide moved, at least some.

Could the slide run into something that prevented full movement to the rear. A coat, your off hand, some part of the Deer?

Do you recall if recoil felt "normal"?

[Polinese]

Yea I'm happy it happened during that and not something worse...

short sleeves, one handed (light was occupying the other hand) same as plenty of others. I can't for certain the trigger reset I wasn't paying much attention to it.

I was thinking some kind of short stroke too, which was why I thought maybe something was wrong with that specific cartridge. enough to get it out of the barrel and into the deer but not enough to cycle it? But at the same time I feel like if it has enough to punch through the deer's skull it should have enough force to cycle the gun.

I field strip/clean/oil it but that's it. No upgrades or parts swapping.

After I found the spent casing in the chamber I worked the slide a few times before I loaded it up. Everything felt smooth, no grit, no hang up

[Sharkbite]

Added....

The FIRST order of business is to get that pistol on the range and run a cpl hundred rounds. See if the problem shows up again

Right now it could be the Gun, the Ammo, enviromental contidions, the Gods playing games with you (JK)

Test the gun and attempt to recreate the event. Only way to know for sure.

[Polinese]

I doubt they'd pay for the ammo... can't even get practice ammo, and no one carries .45 gap because why should they haha.

I've never been a glock fan but since i've had to start using one for duty I've come to absolutely loathe them.

[Oysterboy]

Sound like an undercharged round to me. Not enough to fully cycle the slide and the spent casing goes back into the chamber.

[TunnelRat]

I doubt they'd pay for the ammo... can't even get practice ammo, and no one carries .45 gap because why should they haha.



I've never been a glock fan but since i've had to start using one for duty I've come to absolutely loathe them.


We don't know enough yet to blame the gun much less Glock in general (I do get personal preferences).

You have to find some way to run ammo through that gun to test it. Even if you have to order it online or call around to see if any store has some. I get that cost sucks but if your life could depend on that gun it's worth it. Do you know the manufacturer and specs of the ammo you're carrying?

[Polinese]

Speer Gold Dots. I know it's not necessarily the gun and I'm more inclined to blame the cartridge but personal preference I can never find anything to like about them, and I've had more issues with my Glock than any other gun I've owned or been issued, granted the vast majority of said issues have been magazine related.

[Sharkbite]

Polinese...

Your "Duty gun" malfunctioned ON DUTY!!! Go to your dept armorer and explain what happened. Demand the gun be tested and repaired if needed.

The acceptable failure rate for a Duty weapon is ZERO. Or as close as humanly possible.

That gun, having now shown a problem, must be tested and FIXED. No other option at this point

[TunnelRat]

My experience with law enforcement is they are penny wise and pound foolish, with most departments not replacing parts when the time comes as necessary (i.e. magazines or magazine springs especially for Glocks are a cheap fix). In fairness often their budgets suck. People love to say they support law enforcement, but when the time comes to pay the piper they sing a different tune. The 45 GAP is also a solution in search of a problem IMO and when you factor in ammo cost and availability it baffles me that Glock got departments to adopt it.

Speer is generally good ammo. For it to be undercharged enough to not even cycle the slide is pretty hard to believe (and as you said it was able to dispatch the deer). Maybe if the cartridge was old and had been exposed to weather? But if newer production ammo that is pretty darn odd. As I said you really need to test it (or more so your armorer should and you should switch out to a different pistol if available).

[Polinese]

I use speer off duty, and my last agency we used speer ammo in our rifles never had an issue.

My agency in particular seems to have major issues with anything safety related in my opinion. Budget issues are oft cited and do have credence but when you factor it all in together it's terrifying... I'll talk to guys from other depts and its usually a mix of shock/laughter/glad I dont work for them.

[James K]

The OP says the cartridge fired and the bullet hit the deer, so that would seem to rule out ammo failure.

It is certainly possible for a slide to be blocked so that it doesn't move when the gun is fired. In fact, it doesn't require a lot of force and with the flat rear of the slide of a Glock or similar pistols, the slide can be held closed with the hand. So a body part, perhaps a hip or knee, or some part of the clothing, could have kept the slide from moving and the empty case from being extracted and ejected.

Jim

[Skans]

I've only had this happen one time. When I fired a Taurus PT-99, the slide never cycled and I had an empty shell in the chamber. It turned out that the locking block shattered, locking the barrel, slide and frame in the closed position.

I would examine your gun carefully and thoroughly test it.

[Polinese]

I brought it home for the weekend and already disassembled it and couldn't find anything wrong with it.

As to the snag idea, we actually practiced firing them and blocking the slide as a means of disabling. That being said I was wearing short sleeves and doing a one handed grip as my other hand was holding my light, and i was in a grassy area, nothing I can think of could've blocked or snagged the slide.

I'm extra glad me and my partner decided to not look for the guy hiding in the woods on our domestic later that night haha.

[jmr40]

What caliber? The only time I've had anything similar was when I stuck a loaded G19 magazine in my G-23 and chambered a round at the range. The gun fired, bullet went down range and hit the target, which was only at the 7 yard line. But it left the now fire formed case in the chamber.

It only took about .5 seconds looking at the empty case to figure out what I did.

[Polinese]

.45 GAP

[AK103K]

How old was the ammo? From what your saying happened, its sounding like ammo to me.

Ive had rounds leave the gun, yet not cycle the slide before, which was an ammo problem. Where did you shoot the deer, and was the impact like you remember the others? Are you sure its dead? :D

You said the mag was "loaded". I take it youre loading +1? Possibly a combination of a "weaker" round and extra spring pressure on the slide?

[zach_]

I have had that happen on a Buckmark more than once. I had to pluck the casings out. Those shots sounded different than the others. The slide didn't budge.

[JohnKSa]

I would carefully check the ejector and extractor. However, logically speaking, it's not likely that what you describe could be the result of either an ejector failure or an extractor failure.

An ejector failure with the magazine out of the gun could result in the empty being pulled out and then pushed right back in as the slide cycles. However, with a loaded magazine in the gun, there's usually enough upward force from the next round in the mag to pop the case out of the gun.

An extractor failure could result in the case never getting extracted, but if the slide cycled, one would expect the next round in the mag to try to feed and result in a double-feed jam.

Short-cycling the slide could cause what you describe, but I would think that you would notice a much weaker than normal round if it weren't strong enough to even pull out the empty.

Could someone possibly be messing with you?

[stagpanther]

I recently had a few of my high power hard-cast handloads do the same thing in my G20. It has a tight-chamber firedragon barrel and tolerances are very tight--more so than the stock glock barrel. Point is, what I've found is that it doesn't take much "slop" in the magazine feed to cause the cartridge to be chambered improperly--my theory being when ignition occurs it appears that there can possibly (?) be a problem with the case sealing to the chamber fully if the cartridge is not headspacing properly for whatever reason. I suspect--though haven't tested for it--that this creates erratic pressures, possibly affecting the bullet's velocity (a simple chrono test would probably confirm that) as well as affecting proper cycling. When I switched magazines and loads to jacketed HP's problem went away. Don't know if this helps any--I just toss it out as food for thought.

[lechiffre]

Sounds like the magazine might not have been fully seated.

[gyvel]

Sounds like the magazine might not have been fully seated.

That most likely wouldn't account for a fired case remaining in the chamber.

Also, if an extractor failure occurred, the slide wouldn't recoil at all (I would think), unless the case backed out partially and was then pushed back into the chamber. Since some guns seem to function well without an extractor, it seems to point at an underpowered load.

[lechiffre]

ooops missed the part about the brass not extracting.

[745SW]

How's the locking block? Non 9mm's tend to break more. Reliability becomes sporatic.

[shaunpain]

Does your ejector look okay? I would replace all springs, especially your recoil spring. Very curious, indeed.

[dave421]

By any chance do you drop a round into the chamber and then let the slide close on it? If so, you could have a chipped extractor which would leave the spent brass in the chamber.

[Sharkbite]

By any chance do you drop a round into the chamber and then let the slide close on it? If so, you could have a chipped extractor which would leave the spent brass in the chamber.

But it would have also allowed the slide to move fully to the rear causing a feedway stoppage. That did not happen. The slide either stayed closed on the fired brass or did not move far enough to the rear to pick up a new round from the mag.

[smee78]

It sounds like a weak recoil spring, its a cheap fix and worth your life. Get out to the range and pony up the dollars for a box of factory ammo and test your gun. Being a cheap azz will get you killed. It sounds like your gun fired and did not cycle back far enough to expell the spent round and pick up the new round from the mag. All matters point to a short cycle.

[TunnelRat]

It sounds like a weak recoil spring, its a cheap fix and worth your life. Get out to the range and pony up the dollars for a box of factory ammo and test your gun. Being a cheap azz will get you killed. It sounds like your gun fired and did not cycle back far enough to expell the spent round and pick up the new round from the mag. All matters point to a short cycle.


A weak recoil spring would not stop the slide from cycling far enough back. It would cause the pistol to beat itself up and maybe cycle so quickly that it causes a malfunction, but the slide would cycle fully rearward.

Edit: actually it would cycle rearward faster than normal but then return forward slower than normal.

[Polinese]

All the parts look ok as far as I can tell. I ordered some ammo and being from the Empire of New York had to send it to my dealer because we're safer that way.

I go to the range in a couple weeks too so hopefully it was a weird fluke... One more reason for me to think officer's should carry what they're comfortable with not whatever is cheapest and "works".

[Sharkbite]

So, you are going to work for a " couple of weeks " with a gun you dont know functions???

Man, thats just insane. Go to a public range if you have too. Pony up the cash anf function test that pistol. Whats your life worth???

[skizzums]

surely if he had the option to grab some .45GAP local in New York, he wouldn't have ordered it in the first place just for a test.

surprising you couldn't at least get a few rounds(at least one:eek:) to pop off somewhere real quick. make sure you offer to dispatch the next piece of roadkill

[Walt Sherrill]

Was this about a DUTY gun? If so, does the agency have an armorer. (If the agency uses Glocks, I'm sure the Armorer could be persuaded to quickly check the gun out...)

There's some things going on that just don't make sense... (as least as they've been explained thus far.)

I have a Glock 38. I've had a bunch of Glocks, and liked them all (with the exception of two 35s that I just couldn't shoot well (but others could -- it was obviouisly me, not the gun.) The 38 is my favorite Glock, and it's kept in a small bedside gun safe, for when/if things ever go bump in the night. Best shooting .45 I've owned, and I've owned a bunch.

[stagpanther]

Don't discount the possibility something funny may be going on with the headspacing--Ive seen a case left in the chamber due to this reason.

[Polinese]

My agency is laughably behind the times, the fact that we have radios in our cars is a god send. Equipment issues alone have been enough to make me seriously consider resigning.

My personal gunsmith is a glock armorer and is checking it out.

No there is no local store I could find with any GAP ammo because why the hell would they have it, cartridge shoudlnt' exist in the first place.

[Bart Noir]

If so, you could have a chipped extractor which would leave the spent brass in the chamber.

The very first Glock I fired (G17), about the Year of Our Lord 1990, was a range gun. While troubleshooting the problems caused by the crappy reload range ammo which they insisted I use in their gun, I got to see the size of the Glock extractor.

It was way bigger than I had seen on other guns, such as the 1911s. And half the "tooth" on that extractor was broken off. That extractor still did its job.

Bart Noir

[bamaranger]

Been following this thread closely.

Am curious about the "blocked slide" issue. The OP states that he "had his flashlight in the other hand". Seems like I read he fired one handed. But....if that is not quite what he did, and used some type of two handed light technique, what'd they call it, the "Harris technique", it might have been possible to obstruct the slide with the light.

The .45 GAP!!!!! I didn't know anybody relied on that number as a duty gun, much less an agency gun. They can't make a bunch of that stuff, and I bet not much gets sold. There is likely much old stock...maybe it was indeed a bad round.

Finally, "had to go back to the station" for more ammo "1 RD"!!! Say what? Going in harms's way, for a living, you need to have more ammo/magazines, in your vehicle, accessible, etc, etc, Yeah, the Bureau says your gunfight will last about 3 rounds....but who really knows. You may never shoot, or you may get caught up in a really wild incident. Better to be safe than sorry. In public, in uniform, it makes sense to believe it will happen someday, to you, and prepare accordingly. If I had to buy ammo and mags, with my own money, and swap it in and out of the rig in a bag or box, I'd do that rather than do without.

[Polinese]

To clarify

It wasn't any two handed grip.

As for the the replacement round. I have my two spares on my belt and 3 more in my sling bag (they flip S*** if we had extras to our belt) Whenever I dispatch a deer I pop the magazine out and put a fresh one in. When I went back to pick up my partner I went to get my replacement round and discovered the magazine that was in the gun at the time of the shot was still full thus leading to the discovery of my spent case.

[Walt Sherrill]

They can't make a bunch of that stuff, and I bet not much gets sold. There is likely much old stock...maybe it was indeed a bad round.

It's still being made. I buy mine from Georgia Arms and it's about the same price as .45 ACP. (I get both ball and hollow-point from them, but also buy SD ammo from MidwayUSA. Prices there are comparable to other .45 ACP SD rounds.

Some state agencies have also used .45 GAP, but in recent years many seem to be moving back to 9mm -- and away from .40, too. Darned few police agencies of any type issue .45 in any format.

[JohnKSa]

Am curious about the "blocked slide" issue.The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced that this is the only scenario that makes sense.

I have fired a Glock 10mm while intentionally blocking the slide with my hand and then with my strong-side thumb and was not hurt in either case. But I was doing it intentionally and I definitely felt it both times although I wasn't hurt. It's hard for me to believe that someone could fully block the slide and not notice it, but nothing else really fits with all the facts.

[bamaranger]

Glad to hear that you have a grip on your ammo situation. I initially believed you might have no mags or spare ammo available to you in your rig. That is my fault for jumping conclusions. I once watched an officer with a revolver and 6 extra rounds, shoot at a crippled animal 9 times. With 3 left in the .38, she had to go back to the office for more ammo!

Am at this point at a loss for any explanation regards your failure to extract.

[2450paul]

I've been shooting Glocks since 1984. I'm a Glock Armorer. I've encountered more than a few that the carbon fouling built up in the extractor seat of the slide. Some were baked in and had to be cleaned out with a dental pick. Enough buildup will inhibit your extractor function. I hope this helps. Paul

[Polinese]

Well the ammo came in and I ran it through the gun with no problems.

Went to range to qualify and did another 150 rounds or so with zero problems and one of the armorers tore it down and cleaned it. (We do have armorers but I work for the state so there isn't necessarily one available to me when I need one)

I even tried recreating the malfunction as best I could remember the shot when I was firing it on my own and nothing.

At this point I'm chalking it up to a defective round.

[Walt Sherrill]

I think it will remain a puzzle

The only things that makes sense to me are:

Something kept the slide closed so that it couldn't cycle,

A marginal round was just powerful enough to put down a badly hurt animal might but powerful enough to cycle the slide part way -- but not far enough to make the fired round hit the ejector or to allow the slide to pick up the next round from the mag.

That second one is your conclusion: defective ammo. The "right" (or "wrong") load might allow that to happen. I've never heard of that happening, but there are a lot of things I've not heard of.

It sounds as though the gun is functioning properly. I wouldn't worry about it.

[Polinese]

Yeah I'm a little more at ease now... though I'd still prefer a different sidearm haha.

We fired 50 rounds of our duty ammunition and no problems that I noticed. Though maybe I could blame that one round in the 4 ring on a defective round too :D

[drobs]

Was the muzzle of the gun touching the deer when you dispatched it?

Weird things happened. If you have something like that happen again go shoot some rapid fire. It will tell you if you have an issue or not.

Could be you inadvertently limp wristed it shooting 1 handed. Who knows.

[cougar gt-e]

Weird. I would suspect the extractor is gummed up. Just because a gun isn't shot, doesn't keep it from getting dirty. Strip it down totally, inspect for damage, clean and lube, reassemble and run a box. Should be fine.

[Walt Sherrill]

Weird. I would suspect the extractor is gummed up. Just because a gun isn't shot, doesn't keep it from getting dirty. Strip it down totally, inspect for damage, clean and lube, reassemble and run a box. Should be fine.

If the extractor were gummed up, the slide should still have cycled, and stripped the next round and tried to feed it. That didn't happen.

About the ONLY thing that makes sense, if the shooter didn't somehow inadvertently keep the slide from moving, is an under-powered round that exited the barre, but didn't have enough force to fully cycle the slide.

Remember: the gun functioned properly later without any real intervention from the shooter.

If it did try to extract, but the slide didn't go back far enough to hit case the spent case to hit the ejector, and then came back forward, it MIGHT have either not fully pulled the case out of the chamber or somehow reinserted the spent case back in the chamber. (Nothing would necessarily cause the case to be pushed out of alignment until the slide goes much farther back.)

That really seems to be dependent on an odd set of conditions, but barring something that blocks slide movement, that seems about the only explanation that fits what happened.