Colt Gov't .380 stopped firing!

[Cossack]

I purchased a Colt Gov't .380 at a recent gunshow (traded my wife's old carry gun for it - she asked for something different and the Colt perfectly fit what she described when telling what she wanted).

On the way home I realized the rear site was loose - I could push it side to side with thumb pressure alone. Not good. Buefore i took the gun to the smith, she took it out and shot several mags through without malfunction. We pushed the rear sight to the center and she was getting great results. We decided it's a keeper.

I took it to a smith to take care of the sight issue. The sight was firmly in place when I picked it up a couple weeks ago.

This past weekend we got the chance to shoot again, and it wouldn't fire! The firing pin is clearly not striking the primers. There is not even a slight indentation - no indication at all af being struck on rounds that eject.

There was one exception - i tried firing while holding the gun at a steep downward angle and it fired - once. I couldn't get it to happen again. The case had a very weak primer strike. The next time was like before - not even a scratch on the primer.

Could the firing pin have broken somehow? Any other possible explanations? Is there any way this could have happened at the gunsmith's while he worked on the rear sight? I don't plan on using that particular gunsmith anymore (see my thread on the c96 Mauser) but I might take it back if he broke my gun and ask him to make it right rather than pay someone else. Any suggestions? Diagnostics?

[rtpzwms]

Take it back to the smith. It might be something simple but if you touch it he will claim that you had something to do with it. If he is honest and you only took it to the range and straight back to him I'm sure he'll make it right. I don't know how often you have used him, if this is your first visit.... I've only had to take one pistol back after a smith mounted a scope on a pistol. No matter what I tried I couldn't adjust it to the left of center on the target but I could go 17" to the right of center!. He looked at it and fixed it quickly. It was my first use of this smith and most likely my last.

[James K]

IIRC, that pistol has a firing pin block and spring under the rear sight, and it sounds like the smith might have had to remove the block and spring and gotten the block back in wrong. Definitely take it back.

Another proof that a good gunsmith test fires every gun he fixes, no matter what the reason for the repair.

Jim

[Snyper]

Another proof that a good gunsmith test fires every gun he fixes, no matter what the reason for the repair.
The OP managed to make it fire once, so maybe the smith did also

[James K]

I always fired at least a magazine/cylinder full, but ammo was cheaper then, and of course the customer paid for it anyway.

Jim

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

Jim, if it was ammo I didn't have on hand, I had the customer to bring the ammo in with the gun. I would generally shoot one full magazine, or at the very least, three rounds. If there was any left, the customer took what was left back with them when picking up the gun. I put a sticky note on the box, so I didn't forget who the ammo belonged to. There were some rifle cartridges that I just didn't keep on hand, as you might only use them once, and be stuck with the rest of a box. I kept a good majority of the pistol cartridges, though, along with all gauges of shot shells.

[James K]

Sad to say, but we had some customers who would bring in a gun to, say, put on a sling. They would pick up the gun, then come back complaining that it didn't fire or whatever. The customer then blamed us for breaking his gun, and demanded a new one, not just a repair. Of course, the gun was broken when he brought it in, the original job was just a blind in an attempt to get the gun repaired free. At least by test firing, we could figure out if it was defective when brought in, or if we really did "break it", which happened from time to time.

I recall the time one of the guys drilled and tapped a rifle for a scope. When I tried to test fire it, the bolt was locked up solid. He had removed the bolt for drilling, but installed it before screwing down the mount, and you can figure what happened.

Jim

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

Jim, yes, they are some who will try to do some underhanded stunts in the business. I called them the slip and fall artists of Gunsmithing. They know that a law suit would most likely cost more than a new gun is worth, and is why some will try to pull that off.

I never had any bad problems with that, but the local sporting goods and dealers did, especially from mounting scopes and slings. They didn't have any real smiths, and didn't fire the guns, so they created their own problems. Of course, they did actually screw up some guns, too, such as off drilled holes, etc.

[WhatRecoil]

:mad:are simple to repair for a competent smith who knows 1911s, now like everything else, it's the uneducated kitchen table "dremel aficionado" who will literally ruin his own day and cost himself $$$$ in the process. The problem is that all the parts are tiny to begin with, and the smallest infraction of bad fitting will stop it cold, where IME a 1911 full size Govt model is a bit more forgiving.

I worked for a smith, I am not a certified gunsmith. A customer brought in a stainless Govt. 380 that had an unusual problem..."it don't shoot right!!"... So I take to the bench, loaded snap-caps to check fire function and loading. Hand cycled fine, and obviously would fire. I cleaned and lubed it after a field strip, put 3 hardball in the test fire room, play sand bucket....BRAKKK!!

The little joker went full auto!! At the smiths direction I replaced the disconnector. It worked fine. Some would have left it alone, I wouldn't touch that debate with a 10 foot pole.

The gun obviously hadn't been fired a lot, unless the part was defective or out of spec beforehand I can't see that happening without tinkering that quickly if at all.

The first thing any decent smith does is clean and check basic function. I would've checked for a broken firing pin, weak/broken FP spring, impacted FP channel right off the bat. Could be some odd peening inside the slide or rough machining causing FTF. IDK. The simplest answer would be to replace the FPS spring and firing pin spring itself. Head of FP may also be getting caught behind the firing pin retainer in the slide if the spring is weak or the plate is loose.

I really need to brush up on my Colt Govt 380 anatomy...so I apologize if I've misspoken here. Also assumed this was a from the slide up issue, but you HAVE TO CHECK AND TEST IT ALL.. Of course.

All those parts need to be properly fitted. I haven't bought a FP for a series 80 anything in years, but if the pin is broken due to a sucky tempering job, there you go. Once you get it to fire, I'd put 50 rounds of FMJ and a box of at least 20 of my chosen SD round before I'd hand it to my wife with any peace of mind at all. Also see ShootingTheBull410 YouTube series on defensive ammo for that little jewel...good stuff.

[shaunpain]

Looking at a diagram, it seems to me that your firing pin lock is stuck in an upward position, disallowing your firing pin full forward movement through the channel. Pointing it down at a steep angle must have overcome this curiously the one time. It's possible your disconnect has been removed or installed incorrectly (though, I'm not sure if that's even possible - I have no experience with the Mustang). Again, having no experience, it seems that the Mustang could go through the triggering cycle with the disconnect removed but no or not enough firing pin movement.

For what it's worth, I would stop trying to fire it until it's fixed so you don't pound the brick out of that firing pin lock and firing pin.

[Cossack]

Looking at an exploded view (http://www.coltparts.com/pt_380semiauto.html) it seems that the rear sight direct contacts the firing pin block mechanism. Could it be that in working on the rear sight the smith might have lost a part or somehow otherwise affected the mechanism?

What would happen if the firing pin block spring went AWOL?

I talked to the shop owner (not the smith himself) and he said they never took the slide apart and so it wasn't anything they did. He did say I could have them take a look at it if I wanted. I think I'm going to pass.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

You'll have to take the firing pin out to check it, and I would take the sight out, to see if the lock or the spring are missing. To remove the firing pin, you depress it, and remove the plate at the rear, #11. It slides down, when you depress the firing pin in with a small punch. Just make sure you catch the firing pin, when it is pulled clear, as it is under spring pressure.

I would say the loose rear sight is your first clue.

[Cossack]

The loose rear sight has been fixed by the gunsmith. It worked while the sight was loose; now it doesn't.

I did take the firing pin out last night. It seems unbroken.

[CCW1911]

On the 380 there is a coil spring sitting on top of a firing pin block under the rear sight. You have to be careful when removing the rear sight that you don't let the spring fly loose. When replacing the rear sight it's easy to catch the edge of the spring, also if you use loctite or something similar it can get in there and stick the firing pin block.

I think it's pretty obvious that's where your problem will be. The rear sight needs to be removed and the firing pin block, spring, and the hole it rides in checked for free movement.

[Cossack]

I finally got up the nerve to remove the rear sight - very slowly and carefully. I fist removed it partway so I could see into the hole without releasing anything to make sure I didn't lose any parts. Then I worked it the rest of the way out, covering it as I went.

no spring. I can only assume the smith lost it.

I guess I'll at least give him a chance to make it right, but it's just my word - and I bet he won't like that I took it apart myself. C'est la vie.

[JohnKSa]

Numrich has that part in stock for $7.40

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/Colt-33188/AutoPistols-35748/Government380-34901.htm

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/190190.htm

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

A good Gunsmith should have known that a spring was under that sight, and not lost it, or failed to reinstall it. Even on guns we don't work on often, we have disassembly manuals to tell us, step by step, how to take one down, and put it back together, and if we don't, we look at the disassembled view or schematic, to see what goes where.

The spring can be aggravating to press down, and tap the sight back over it, but other guns have similar things, so one with experience knows how to do it. This gun, I don't see how one could miss putting it back, because the spring is in the way of the sight. If there was any left overs, that would make it a poor job.

Anyhow, you'll have to press that spring down, with a tool, and hold it, until you can tap the sight over part of the spring to hold it in place. A large clear baggie will help, by putting the gun inside, while you do this, as if the spring gets loose, the bag will catch it. A flat screwdriver blade is enough to hold it down, and just tap the sight, with a plastic hammer, against the blade, which will move it off the spring, as the sight advances. Holding the slide in a vise will make it easier, as this is a three handed job, otherwise.