3/8" AR500?

[Mosin-Marauder]

Im thinking of getting an 8" Plate of 3/8" AR500 to shoot my rifles at. Would this hold up to these calibers with no ricochet at 110 Yards? I plan to hang it from a Shepard's hook.

Calibers:
8mm Mauser (some steel core maybe, mostly commercial and handloads)
7.62x54R (Some steel core, mostly reloads)
7.5x55 Swiss (150 Grain Soft Points, fairly mild load)
7.62x51 NATO (FMJ's, 147 Grain)
.223 (No 5.56, mostly Commercial and Reloads)

^Pretty much just my C&R rifles, and my AR. I'd probably replace the target after I started to see a lot of wear.

Thanks!

Regards,

-Mo.

[MtnCreek]

Anything with a steel core is either going through or bouncing off. A 3/8 plate will warp quickly. FWIW, a 55gr FMJ from an 18" barrel dings up steel at 100 yds.

[NoSecondBest]

I've got several AR500 plates and can't even make a dimple in them. It's not all about thickness, it's a LOT about hardness. For the smaller full jacketed stuff though I might think about going to 1/2" if I were going to shoot a lot at it. However, like I said mine don't even have a dimple in them.

[Dragline45]

The main thing that defeats steel is speed, for example at closer distances 55gr 5.56 M193 will punch through that AR500 steel plate like butter, where the steel core 62gr 5.56 M855 will just crater it despite the steel core because it is moving a bit slower. At 100yds the plate will hold up, but some of the faster rounds will leave small dimples, of course barrel length makes a big difference as well.

[SC4006]

My 3/8" plate has held up for years without any problems. I've shot tons of 7.62x54r at it, some even steel core with no ill effects. As long as you are shooting the plate head on, ricochet is unlikely as the bullets splatter. The fragments from the bullet splattering won't go that far.

Also just FYI, AR500 steel has a brinell hardness of 500 as the name implies. I remember hearing that most of your surplus steel core 54r is going to be around 120 on the hardness scale, much softer. 30-06 M2 AP is in the 700's. :eek:

[taylorce1]

The trick to shooting steel is the faster the bullet leaves the barrel the farther you back it up. A lot of the steel shoots in competition like the MV to be less than 3000 fps and some even restrict bore size to .308 or smaller. However there are some that'll allow up to .50 calibers to compete.

Any steel core ammunition is going to beat your plate to death quickly by warping and putting holes through the steel. Same with any high velocity rounds shot at close range. All copper projectiles are bad on AR500 as well when shot at high velocities like they normally are.

So you don't have much of a problem with velocity except your .223 so back up further (200-300 yards) or slow down your reloads for shooting steel at your normal ranges. All your old military rifle and even your .308 will not have any issues as long as you use cup and core bullets. Leave the steel core for shooting paper and you'll be fine.

[stagpanther]

Good reminder--I just ordered 2 of the same plates (1/2")--they tossed in a smaller gong for free!

[chris in va]

3/8" AR500, 1.5 years of fairly heavy use at 100 yards. Steel jacketed 30-06, FMJ 223, steel jacketed x39 and x54R.

http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af202/cabinfever41/72E0231E-10EB-4D6C-8749-5877C41FBD6F_zpsofx9lla7.jpg (http://s1008.photobucket.com/user/cabinfever41/media/72E0231E-10EB-4D6C-8749-5877C41FBD6F_zpsofx9lla7.jpg.html)

Hard to tell but very little cratering, mostly just tiny divots. The only real shallow crater was from a 300 WinMag. I asked him to do that.:cool:

Hey...kinda looks like Pluto!

[NoSecondBest]

Disregard any answers from those who don't actually own AR500 or who have no actual experience shooting at it. Most of it's guess work based on shooting non hardened steel plates or just guessing.

[stagpanther]

Hard to tell but very little cratering, mostly just tiny divots. The only real shallow crater was from a 300 WinMag. I asked him to do that.

Hey...kinda looks like Pluto!

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s388/triggerpull/11760096_1158720694148940_9178544879489554575_n_zpst94dos4f.jpg (http://s1049.photobucket.com/user/triggerpull/media/11760096_1158720694148940_9178544879489554575_n_zpst94dos4f.jpg.html)

[NoSecondBest]

Here's a good read on choosing what steel you need for target shooting and explains the differences.
http://www.moatargets.com/blog/blog/2014/01/03/how-to-choose-the-correct-steel-for-your-shooting-needs/

[Dragline45]

Disregard any answers from those who don't actually own AR500 or who have no actual experience shooting at it. Most of it's guess work based on shooting non hardened steel plates or just guessing.

Not sure whose comments you are referring to, but I can tell you that I own and have a ton of experience shooting AR500 plates, and have done hours of research since I own AR500 body armor. What I can also tell you is that my comments are 100% factual based on real world results.

[emcon5]

The main thing that defeats steel is speed, for example at closer distances 55gr 5.56 M193 will punch through that AR500 steel plate like butterWhile I don't disagree that velocity is what is hard on steel, I really wonder what your definition of "closer distances" is. I punished the hell out of my AR500 steel with M193 at 100 yards, and it just left tiny dimples. It is not something I will do again, but I am not worried about the damage to the plate.

I made the mistake once of shooting one at 100 yards with a 55gr .243 Win, with a MV of ~3500 FPS which cratered it pretty badly, I posted a photo here (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5953098&postcount=10). Aside from a slightly smaller surface area, that is essentially the same energy (velocity and bullet weight) as M193 at the muzzle. I have a really hard time seeing M193 doing much more damage, let alone punch through "like butter"

Here's a good read on choosing what steel you need for target shooting and explains the differences.
http://www.moatargets.com/blog/blog/...hooting-needs/

MOA are local to me, they are good people and make good stuff.

[MtnCreek]

Nevermind, I'm too dumb to post pics.

[Dragline45]

While I don't disagree that velocity is what is hard on steel, I really wonder what your definition of "closer distances" is. I punished the hell out of my AR500 steel with M193 at 100 yards, and it just left tiny dimples. It is not something I will do again, but I am not worried about the damage to the plate.

When I say closer distances I mean within 20yds. If you read my whole comment, I said the plate will hold up at 100yds, but faster rounds will leave small dimples.

I have a really hard time seeing M193 doing much more damage, let alone punch through "like butter"

It will punch a clean perfectly round hole through the plate at close enough distances. The thickness of the plate does make a difference though, as does the distance and barrel length used.

Check out these videos of M193 punching through AR500 level III body armor. This is the reason I sold my level III body armor for the level III+ which will stop M193 even at just a few yards. Keep in mind this is high quality AR500 steel from Ar500Armor.com. Notice in both videos, the slightly heavier 62gr steel core round is moving just a bit slower and lacks the velocity to punch through, thus why I said speed is the determining factor when defeating steel.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMYkEMhPsO8&

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1K3wCRjcdM


.

[emcon5]

What was that, maybe 1/4" thick?

I would like to see the same test with a 3/8" AR500 target.

[MtnCreek]

I still don't have any clue how to post pictures...

The below link might take you to a photo of a 3/8" AR500 plate that's taken more than a few 55gr FMJ / 5.56 hits at around 30 yds. FWIW, even at 100 yds, there is some dinging of the plate surface.

[stagpanther]

I once took a shot with a 357 mag at a dishwasher at about that range and the bullet came right back at me missing my head by inches. :eek:

[Dragline45]

What was that, maybe 1/4" thick?

I would like to see the same test with a 3/8" AR500 target.


Yeah .26" to be exact, and I would too, I'm sure the thicker plate has a higher threshold to some degree. But one of the questions constantly asked to the company is why don't they have thicker plates rated for higher threats, and they said you would have to increase the thickness pretty dramatically to get enough increased stopping ability where the plate would be far too thick and heavy, which leads me to believe it would need to be at least 1/2". I would love to test it personally, but I don't know how safe I feel shooting one of my 3/8" steel plates at 10yds with my AR, but if I was a betting man, given the clean perfectly round holes punched through those plates, I cant see 3/8" plates holding up much better in CQB distances. It would be a different story if it was a tiny hole that maybe a fragment or two barely worked it's way through, but as can be seen it went clean through and then had enough force after to penetrate well over 12" in ballistic gel.

[stagpanther]

Mine just came in and can't wait to use them! : )

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s388/triggerpull/IMAG1196_zpsywd6udrl.jpg (http://s1049.photobucket.com/user/triggerpull/media/IMAG1196_zpsywd6udrl.jpg.html)

[tobnpr]

If you're shooting steel at 100 yards, you'd better have the steel suspended correctly. Hanging it from a "shepherd's crook" is a safety nightmare.

Bullet frags are going to ricochet off that steel, and hanging it vertically is asking for something to zing past your head (and hopefully not into it) at some point.

Steel needs to be hung from the back, so that it naturally angles down towards the ground and will direct the fragments down into the dirt.

180 grains or more at 2600+ fps is nothing to sneeze at at 100 yards.

Our local (shorter) range only allows steel at 200M, it's forbidden at 100 yards.

[stagpanther]

If you're shooting steel at 100 yards, you'd better have the steel suspended correctly. Hanging it from a "shepherd's crook" is a safety nightmare.

Bullet frags are going to ricochet off that steel, and hanging it vertically is asking for something to zing past your head (and hopefully not into it) at some point.

Steel needs to be hung from the back, so that it naturally angles down towards the ground and will direct the fragments down into the dirt.

180 grains or more at 2600+ fps is nothing to sneeze at at 100 yards.

Our local (shorter) range only allows steel at 200M, it's forbidden at 100 yards.I've had a 357 mag bullet come zinging back at me though it wasn't when shooting at gongs. How do you angle these things when there is no attachment point on the bottom edge?

[emcon5]

I've had a 357 mag bullet come zinging back at me though it wasn't when shooting at gongs. How do you angle these things when there is no attachment point on the bottom edge?

For those gongs, hanging from a chain from the back will give them a slight down angle.

[stagpanther]

thanks

[emcon5]

What I have done is use a reasonably long bolt, with a washer on the front side, then a stack of 3 or 4 washers in back between the plate and the chain link. With it cantilevered out a bit, it should have a nice down angle, that combined with a chain mount rather than a solid mount will allow the plate to move and absorb some of the energy.

With steel you will never 100% eliminate the chance of fragments, but with that combination, that is probably as good as you can get to reduce risk.

Always wear eye protection.

[tobnpr]

JMO...

But putting the chain attachment point at near center of the target doesn't seem like a great idea...:confused:


http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/vinconco/steel%20target/Hang%20Fast/20150401_142155_zpsd06l2yub.jpg


There are some merits to the post idea, but the post WILL get hit, at some point.

I've used steel, foldable sawhorses to hang our steel for years. They get shot...bang out the bullet holes best I can, and when they're done, make another. They're all sacrificial at some point.

[dnsharpshooter]

i use a plastic sawhorse to hang my plate. works well for me. they're cheap (like 10 bucks) and take a decent beating. no problems with ricochets off it since its plastic the bullet just goes through. i use rope to hang the plate. cheaper than chain to replace if you shoot it and bullets wont bounce off it. might be the way the plate is angled, but i dont have a problem with the fragments cutting the rope either

[Hunter Customs]

vinconco, thanks for the link, it looks like a good ideal and will work great for me.