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View Full Version : Colt O1991 and warning about Freedom Munitions


Georgian
June 11, 2015, 12:53 PM
Hey yall. Just wanted to give yall a heads up about Freedom Munitions, out of Lewiston, Idaho. As a caveat, I must say I only purchased this ammo as I had good experience with their 115gr 9mm FMJ and .38spl rounds in the past.

During the last week of May I purchased a Colt O1991 .45ACP from Buds Gun Shop. In addition to this, I purchased 1,500 rounds (1,250 230gr FMJ along with 250 rnds of Freedom Munitions 230gr HP) of re-manufactured ammo from Freedom to run through my new Colt.

Last week, on 06/04/2015, I had been shooting the new Colt, which had been performing flawlessly with the ammo to that point. I had approximately 350 rounds downrange as of that morning. I loaded a magazine (Brownells brand Metalform) with a mixture of the Freedoms FMJ and HP, and began shooting again. I had fired approximately 4-5 rounds, with no noticeable change in report (semi-rapid fire), when the Colt just blew out of my hands. I saw a bloom of what appeared to be blue smoke, and felt metal fragments pepper the left side of my face. I immediately checked my face, discovered my left and right eye was fine, but found several fragments had embedded into my cheek and under my left eye. I will admit I had forgotten my shooting glasses that morning (which are dark tinted), as it was overcast and raining (I know no excuse). A larger fragment had embedded into the side of my cheek, which was bleeding.

After checking myself, I went back to retrieve my 1911, which I found was out of battery approximately 1/4'', and would not reciprocate (i.e. the action was jammed shut, and no amount of force I could muster would locked it open). I looked down directly in front of where I was shooting (private property and I am the only person who shoots there), and discovered a severely bulged and disformed case with a blown primer. Next to the casing was a severely disformed HP bullet with no rifling contact grooves. I then cleared the magazine from the weapon, and found two rounds remaining inside, which exhibited carbon residue in addition to being disformed and set back in their cases. The magazine follower was stuck approximately a quarter of the way down the tube, and upon closer inspection I discovered the base plate was bent outward, and one of the welds was broken.

Upon returning home, I found that the weapon did not had any bore obstructions, but a spent casing was lodged into the chamber, which was locking the action up. I did notice a hairline crack at the base of the round in the chamber, which I could only view from the muzzle. I had taken photographs of my injuries, the weapon and rounds and sent them to the customer service supervisor of Freedom by e-mail. At this point, I contacted Freedom Munitions, which took forever to get a hold of someone as a result of the time difference (Georgia here).

I finally managed to make contact with an admin in a Freedom store in Houston, Tx, how I do not know. He listened and advised he would forward this to his supervisors. Shortly thereafter, I received a call from a Mr. Jansen Jones, VP of Sales/Marketing. I explained the incident to Mr. Jones, who of course apologized for the mishap. He assured me I would be reimbursed for the ammo and my weapon would be purchased by the company for retail value as he wanted to see exactly what had happened to the weapon. He advised me I would be contacted by a customer service rep later that day (06/04/2015). I was not contacted until 06/05/2015, by e-mail from customer service.

I was advised by customer service I would be reimbursed for the ammo, with free return shipping. Here is where the story deepens. The rep told me I would need to take my weapon to a gunsmith to determine whether or not it was repairable. At that point, I stopped the rep and advised that was in stark contrast to what Mr. Jones had told me just one day earlier. The rep advised she would be e-mailing the shipping labels for the ammo, and I told her I would be in contact with the VP about my weapon. After contacting Mr. Jones again, I advised him of the discrepancy between his statement and the customer service rep in reference to my handgun.

After I explained my disappointment in receiving two differing stories, he advised I could either, 1. Take the gun to a 'smith, at no charge or 2. He would personally see that my weapon was purchased by the company and I would fully reimbursed for said weapon. I chose the latter of those two options, and was advised to forward an e-mail with my receipt of purchase, which I did. On 06/08/2015, I contacted customer service, to verify they had received the receipt for my handgun. The rep advised me she had, and had forwarded the receipt to her supervisor, who would be handling the weapon claim.

I contacted the supervisor on 06/09/2015, left a voicemail and inquired as to the status of my claim and an explanation of the claim process so I could have an idea of how long it would take. I did the same on 06/10/2015, and sent an e-mail. I have yet to receive a response to the e-mail nor phone calls. My intention here is not to smear the company, if I wanted to do that I would have sought out a lawyer from the get go. I only wish them to stand by their product, and adequately compensate me for the damages to my weapon and reimburse my ammo.

So far it seems the ball is rolling in the right direction, but I am disappointed in the lack of communication from customer service. I can understand them wanting to communicate by e-mail (leaves a paper trail), but receiving a phone call is not too much to ask for. So far my only communication by phone with the company has involved me having to call and ask questions (with the exception of the first call from the VP). I will be posting the photographs I sent to Freedom. I am not saying all their ammo is bad, but it only takes one bad round to ruin your day.

Georgian
June 11, 2015, 12:54 PM
http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r758/georgian87/20150604_093012_zpsdrfmcfhq.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/georgian87/media/20150604_093012_zpsdrfmcfhq.jpg.html)

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r758/georgian87/20150604_093105_zpswcekpmwv.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/georgian87/media/20150604_093105_zpswcekpmwv.jpg.html)

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r758/georgian87/20150604_093124_zpskhzleeth.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/georgian87/media/20150604_093124_zpskhzleeth.jpg.html)

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r758/georgian87/20150604_093309_zpsybark4ye.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/georgian87/media/20150604_093309_zpsybark4ye.jpg.html)

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r758/georgian87/20150604_093809_zpsxaaqyecf.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/georgian87/media/20150604_093809_zpsxaaqyecf.jpg.html)

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r758/georgian87/20150604_093759_zpsegjiir32.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/georgian87/media/20150604_093759_zpsegjiir32.jpg.html)

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r758/georgian87/20150604_093043_zpscliln53b.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/georgian87/media/20150604_093043_zpscliln53b.jpg.html)

I also want to note I was removing metal fragments from my face for most of the week. Yesterday I removed a shard of copper from the cut to my cheek.

Shadi Khalil
June 11, 2015, 01:07 PM
I think other than the discrepancy in what the CS rep said vs the VP was the only real issue so far (except for your gun blowing up, of course), and even that was not really an issue. If you have ever worked in any kind of office, you know that miscommunications happen all the time, the fact that they immediately clarified it is a good thing. Also, when I'm promised a refund, I generally wait 2 weeks before I start calling to inquiry. Companies cut checks on certain days and depending on when you called in their cycle and factoring in approvals, it could be a while before you have a check in hand. It seems like they are handling this very well and if I was in your shoes, I'd be satisfied so far.

WVsig
June 11, 2015, 01:09 PM
Glad to hear you were not harmed more than you were. I would have gone to the Dr to have all those fragments removed from my face. You do not what tat stuff embedding in your skin for longer than necessary IHMO.

Let us know how it turns out.

jmhyer
June 11, 2015, 02:28 PM
It also would not surprise me if it takes a good bit longer and is ultimately much more involved than you might currently be thinking. They can refund you for the ammo and they can accept your shipment of the remaining rounds...no problem. It is also easy for them to reimburse you for expenses to have the gun inspected and/repaired by a local gunsmith...no problem.

But to actually "buy"the gun from you is, from a legal standpoint, more complicated. We're talking about shipping and receiving a handgun across state lines, which will involve someone with an FFL. Also, legal transfer of the handgun from you to them...also requiring an FFL. (Of course they may or may not have an FFL.) I'm sure, also, that no payment will come without some notarized/witnessed legal documentation whereby you acknowledge and accept reimbursement and agree that the matter is settled, waiving any future legal rights.

All in all, it sucks and I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. Mostly, I'm glad that you are ok. Please do let us know how it turns out.

Slamfire
June 11, 2015, 03:44 PM
I am glad you are not hurt severely though I expect the whole event was traumatizing. You are lucky that nothing hit your eyes and I suspect your next set of shooting glasses will have clear lenses. ;)

I am totally baffled by this statement:

and discovered a severely bulged and disformed case with a blown primer. Next to the casing was a severely disformed HP bullet with no rifling contact grooves. I then cleared the magazine from the weapon, and found two rounds remaining inside, which exhibited carbon residue in addition to being disformed and set back in their cases. The magazine follower was stuck approximately a quarter of the way down the tube, and upon closer inspection I discovered the base plate was bent outward, and one of the welds was broken.

For the life of me, I don't know how you could end up with an empty case in the chamber and a case with a blown primer and bullet on the ground. I am totally clueless as how this could happen, but it did.

Modern metallurgy saved you from further injury. Old firearms, made out of plain carbon steels, would have probably blown apart. You can see pictures of old blown M1911's in Hatcher's Notebook. When a firearm fragments, big dangerous chunks go flying, chunks large enough to penetrate a skull. Your Colt was obviously properly made and heat treated. I wish you luck in getting a new one, or a replacement.

Jim Watson
June 11, 2015, 04:08 PM
You sent the maker of the apparently defective ammo your jammed up gun?
You have given away your evidence. They are quite likely to stonewall you and say they never heard of you and never got anything from you.

I once read a newspaper account by Lew Grizzard about a guy who had an apparent defective gun AD. The maker was all heart until he sent in his gun for them to examine. Then it was "Who are you and what are you talking about?"

P.S. Please post in black and white. Medium blue on light blue is hard to read, I had to copy it over to another page to see what you said.

PPS. Put on your glasses. You were incredibly lucky this time. If you think it is normal, buy a lotto ticket.

jmhyer
June 11, 2015, 04:19 PM
As I understand it, he still has the gun. The company has made an offer to buy it from him but it has gone no further than that.

But the point is valid. Do not send them the gun without BOTH reimbursement for it AND it needs to be a legal shipment and transaction through an FFL.

Jim Watson
June 11, 2015, 04:40 PM
Ah, I misread. They got the RECIPT for the gun, not the Colt itself.

Hang on to your evidence.

James K
June 11, 2015, 06:34 PM
First, 6/10/15 was yesterday! Give them a chance, for heaven's sake.

As to shipping the gun, the law specifically allows direct shipment of a gun from customer to manufacturer for repair and return directly to the customer, so that is not a problem.

I suggest a little patience.

Jim

jmhyer
June 11, 2015, 08:14 PM
To James K:
The plan is not to ship the gun to Colt for repair...but rather to sell the gun to the ammo remanufacturer, whose ammo presumably is responsible for the kaboom...which could, indeed, be tricky from a legal standpoint.

Aguila Blanca
June 11, 2015, 08:45 PM
P.S. Please post in black and white. Medium blue on light blue is hard to read, I had to copy it over to another page to see what you said.
^^^ This!

runningbear
June 12, 2015, 08:23 AM
I have read good and bad stories in regards to the Freedom Ammo.s your story and pictures surely tell me I have been wise not to ever use any of their Ammo.
Thanks for posting and I am very glad you were not hurt more then you were,and sorry about the Colt 1991.

Shadi Khalil
June 12, 2015, 09:10 AM
FWIW, I've been through quite a few freedom arms 9mm, 38 special, .357 and have had no issues in thousands of rounds. While I have read accounts of people having issues with their ammo, I've read far more from all the big names. Of course volume is a factor in that but still goes to show, it can happen with any brand. My next purchase will most likely be a .45 and along with it I'll probably by 500-1000 rounds of freedom arms.

Georgian
June 12, 2015, 09:47 AM
I too had good experience with their 9mm and .38spl, as I said in my original post. I also said my intent is not to smear the company, but as with anythinh, especially ammo, it inly has to happen once. Buyer beware.

runningbear
June 12, 2015, 01:21 PM
A few years ago I bought some re-manufactured rifle Ammo. from Black Hills. I noticed some of the brass cases were of a different Mfg. brand.
I called Black Hills and they said they wanted the Ammo. back said there was no problems,but this was not their policies.
They sent me a UPS sticker for ordnance I shipped the Ammo. back to Black Hills they sent me two box's, they replaced the one and gave me an extra box. I trust Black Hills and trust them with my life.:)
In his book American Sniper, Kriss Kyle wrote he used Black Hills Ammo.;)

Slimjim9
June 26, 2015, 05:48 PM
Another "be careful" note with Freedom Munitions. Today I had a squib load with a 125gr reman .38 special. Just the one out of 100 rds. I have 3 more boxes of it. I think I'll check them over good before I shoot it, and probably stick with "new" next time.

45_auto
June 26, 2015, 06:46 PM
Today I had a squib load with a 125gr reman .38 special. Just the one out of 100 rds. I have 3 more boxes of it. I think I'll check them over good before I shoot it

Exactly what do you plan to look for that has anything to do with an undercharged or overcharged round? They'll look the exact same externally as every other round.

Slimjim9
June 26, 2015, 06:54 PM
I figured I would at least check that the bullets are seated and no cracked cases like OP had. You're right, maybe it was just an undercharged round. It gave a kind of "poof" sound instead of bang. At the time, i wasn't thinking about checking the case and just dumped it on the floor.

rt11002003
June 26, 2015, 08:14 PM
I had a squib load in a SIG .45 1911 Target with Freedom Munitions re-manufactured .45ACP ammo. The projectile went about halfway down the barrel. It was really jammed tight, so much so that I broke my wooden dowel; then damaged the barrel removing the projectile with a mallet and metal punch.

My experience with their service department was dismal. I finally bought a replacement barrel and paid for it myself. I still have 500+ rounds of that ammo, just don't trust it.

Since then, I've only purchased new ammo from them; and, don't expect much from them in the line of service. A couple of weeks ago, when loading 9mm Freedom ammo, a round looked strange. Upon closer examination the projectile was recessed into the case making the round about the length of a .380 round.

I've purchased considerable ammo from them and have no idea how many thousand rounds I've used in .45ACP, .380, 9mm and .38 Special. Probably two defective loads in thousands isn't bad, especially with no physical damage to me. But, any future issues, if bad enough, will be addressed by my lawyer. Otherwise, I'll not add to my frustration by dealing with their service folks.

I had an incident with a Hammerli Xesse Sport where the frame was cracked; sent it to Walther. They discovered the barrel was also cracked. Said it wasn't their fault. Suggested I contact the ammo mfg.; so I contacted Armscor. Minimal discussion, they offered to buy back the ammo and replace the gun. I sold them the gun, kept the ammo. There had been no indication of any kind of malfunction, yet Armscor assumed responsibility. Since then I used 6,000+ rounds of their ammo with 3,000+ rounds yet to use. And, looking for a good price on another 5,000 round case.

Slimjim9
June 26, 2015, 09:15 PM
Mine was also jammed tight and the only tool I had was the plastic cleaning rod in G19 case. Wasn't cutting it. This was in my LCR. One of the RSOs had to take it in the back and tap it out with some kind of T-bar. it was a small brass hammer so I don't think he had to hit it *too* hard. The gun shot fine after that.

Sevens
June 26, 2015, 11:37 PM
Freedom Munitions posted a picture on their Facebook page of a gleaming pile of new ammo in an attempt to drum up interest in their product. Wasn't posted all too long when some astute observer was able to EASILY spot a loaded round in their big proud pile of ammo with a primer obviously loaded backward.

I got to see the picture. The offending round was obvious. The observer posted a comment.

To their credit, they did not delete his comment... :p
To their discredit, they responded with "that's just a promotional picture and the ammo is put through a QC procedure before being boxed and shipped!"

BwaHAHAHAHA!
Sorry, folks. These guys are not making a top quality product. Not a deal breaker if you are selling taco shells or vertical blinds but the stakes tend to go up a bit at 17,000 or 35,000 PSI.