M&P 40 extractor pin nightmare

[mendozer]

so I've been trying to get this pin out for a while now when I put the whole thing in the US cleaner. It's the only part of the gun I did not disassemble. I broke a punch and bent two others trying.

The online tutorial I saw showed hammering it out from the top down. I took it to my gunsmith today to see if he could quickly get it out. He used his spring punches and tried for about 20 minutes, broke his punch, then said it wasn't worth it to keep trying.

1) does it come out from the top or bottom? I know my 5906 is from the bottom.

2) the bottom of the pin got seriously marred, as did the part of my slide, is this ok?

3) how the hell should I get this out? I would like to put a roll pin in there as well to make it easier in the future.

I tried soaking it with lube. I have PB blaster, I've done series of small whacks and I've tried heavy hits.

thoughts? Also, he asked if I could cover half his punch. I agreed out of courtesy, but isn't this part of the job having your tools break? I certainly didn't handle it and break it.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u270/mendozer87/20150410_171924.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u270/mendozer87/20150410_171915.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u270/mendozer87/20150410_171933.jpg

[Gunplummer]

I would be considering a drill or endmill by now. It appears to be "Staked" in now. As far as wanting compensation for a broken tool, it might come under the old shop sign slogan: Hourly rates. I fix first $10 per hour. You fix first $20 per hour.
I have had good luck using punches as short as possible (grind one down to 1/8" long if you must) and placing the part with the pin in a solid position to whale on it with a large blunt instrument. This is only to break the pin loose. You may be past that now.

[mendozer]

I just read elsewhere that the M&P armorers manual says to get it out from the top of the slide. So I was doing it right (i did get it to budge) and he was doing it wrong. I didn't do any metal damage with my struggles.

[Gunplummer]

Many times a pin gets a "Kink" right where it is retaining something. That may be why it is stuck.

[mendozer]

what should my next move be? Freeze it first, then hammer away? I think I need a short stubby punch too.

[Snyper]

what should my next move be?
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" would have been the best plan

[polyphemus]

S&W received complaints about loose fitting pins and their response was to press fit them.Yours could be one of those in which case it probably has to be pressed out,someone with an arbor press can help.

[Roughedge]

Whey was you trying to get it out? Is your extractor broke? Next time get a short punch and hit it hard from the bottom up to get it started. Looks like its bradded from both sides now will need a mill with a small end mill to drill it out.

[Remington74]

You didn't say, so I'll ask... Is the extractor broken? If not, and the gun will still function,I would just try to dress up a little bit where you have been trying to pound it out and go on with my life. (Won't have to worry about that pin coming out in your lifetime)

If the extractor is broken I'd just send it back to the manufacturer and tell them my gunsmith can't remove it and let them take care of it.

[mendozer]

I'm not worried about it coming out, and I know it cycles fine as I've tested it. But I want it out so I can swap it with a roll pin in the event that IF I ever want to do a full strip and clean again and or extractor repair, I can easily.

[mendozer]

S&W told me I would require a peening block and a ground down hardened steel drift punch to get it out.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

I use hard rubber bench blocks, myself, which are found at Jewelers suppliers. The steel bench blocks work, and might even be required in a few instances, but when it comes to not scratching a part, the hard rubber ones are better. However, you really shouldn't need that, just something hard enough to drive the pin through a hole. A piece of oak board, with a hole drilled in it, would probably work.

On stubborn pins, it's best to use a short starter punch, even a tapered one, to get it to move, then use a regular punch to drive it the rest of the way out. Pins that are bumped or serrated on one end, making them a force fit in the hole, can be hard to break loose sometimes.

Worst comes to worst, there's drilling it out.

[mendozer]

Ok so to clarify these can be pushed from either direction right?

[polyphemus]

Just out of curiosity I viewed that youtube "tutorial" and it could be a different one but that is a roll pin he has holding his extractor,also it looked like he had
taken it in and out a few times so it wasn't hard to drift it out.
Then the glue,he did not spare it.
You have a solid pin and that points at a press fit,maybe S&W will be kind enough to answer the question of direction but you are somewhat past hammering it out,I still think that if you must then a press is the solution.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

If the pin has a bumped head or a serration, to expand it, it needs to come out from that end. Once out, a roll pin can go back in from either side of the hole.

Another thing that is done, is that some holes are staked with a prick punch, or small chisel. On these, you have to drive the pin past the staked indent. You can see this staked mark on the part itself, that the pin is in, next to and into the edge of the hole.

[mendozer]

OK S&W said it's a straight pin (assuming it is the stock pin). I'll try freezing it to see if that helps. I'll try it when my tapered starter punch arrives

[fastbolt]

The solid extractor pins are removed from the top of the slide to the bottom, and installed up from the bottom. (Same way it's done on S&W 3rd gen & SW1911 guns.)

Yes, the solid M&P pins are straight pins, and they're installed with a press at the factory. They're usually set really tightly. Should not be staked in the slide.

Yes, S&W armorers typical have to use a hardened drift punch (tapered tip) to start the solid pin moving downward, and then once it's broken free (just started to move a little), switch to a long/straight drift pin punch to complete removal of the pin. Holding the extractor pressed inward a bit is helpful as the pin passes out of the top half of the pair of holes (unless you want to risk bending the pin punch used to push the pin all the way down & out).

I've spoken to other S&W armorers who were both 3rd gen and M&P pistol armorers, and the original solid pins used in the M&P slides can feel like they're part of the slide. :eek:

I've only removed one solid M&P extractor pin, and that was on one of my own M&P's. (Just to do it on a M&P that didn't have a loose, wallowed extractor pin hole like on the armorer training guns provided for classes.)

I damaged one of the hardened drift punches I normally use on 3rd gen extractor pins (not the first time I've worn out a starter punch on solid pins), and then switched to another, and I used a nylon bench block to support the slide (bottom against the nylon block). It was really, really set tightly in the slide's extractor hole. I was using a 4 oz ball peen hammer, too.

BTW, armorers are usually told that removal of extractors isn't something done for armorer inspections and cleanings, but when/if necessary for repair.

Adopting the rolled pin for an extractor pin does make removal a lot easier. (The M&P 45's initially received rolled pins as extractor pins, I was told in my first M&P pistol armorer class, in anticipation of an ease of maintenance/repair requirement in expectation of the then-pending SOCOM/JCP pistol solicitation.)

Now, as a 3rd gen pistol armorer I've come across my fair share of nasty, seized and really stuck solid extractor pins, but that solid M&P extractor pin was the hardest to remove I've ever seen.

FWIW, I've seen a S&W 3rd gen slide where the issued user apparently thought they should remove the extractor for "cleaning", and they tried to drive it out up from the bottom of the slide, using the wrong tools and apparently not knowing what they were doing. The bottom of the slide was badly chewed up and damaged beyond repair, and would never again securely hold the bottom half of an extractor pin. The slide was toast.

[mendozer]

that's what the gunsmith did, try hammering it out from the bottom and screwed up my slide. Lucky for me it still slides well.

Dumb ass. I'll try if from the top as I expected. Or maybe I'll just sit tight on it and not risk it since you mentioned it can prevent the pin from sitting tight in there