A Little Hi Power Help

[Joe_Pike]

I'm looking at a Hi Power and here are the roll marks:

"Fabrique Nationale Herstal Belgique" on left side of slide.

There are no roll marks on the right side of the slide except for the serial number, which is 245NMxxxxx.

There is a star on the frame above the trigger on the right side and another mark on the trigger guard on the right side (A friend said it was a crown. Apparently he has better eyes than me).

The serial number seems to date it to 1990, but is it a Belgium Hi Power or something different?

I think I can get it worth the money and it has five mags (two are the Mecgar 15 rounders) and three sets of grips. I've kind of wanted one for a while, but not enough to pay big bucks for one.

[Bill DeShivs]

With those markings, of course it's Belgian.

[UncleEd]

What's big bucks?

[Joe_Pike]

Well, where I live, used Hi Powers tend to go north of $800.

[sgms]

Shooter grade High Powers here are running around $580.-675.00 here.

[Polaris]

That's new terminology for me. Shooter grade?

[WVsig]

It all depends on what it is. Is it a commerical BHP or is it a contract gun? I am willing to bet it is a contract gun. This is an Israeli contract gun.

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/449284000/449284641/pix718527123.jpg

Guns like these sell all day long for $450-$500 + shipping and transfer on Gunbroker sold by cdisales. This is what I would call a shooter grade BHP.

VG commerical BHPs go for $650+. Pristine ones depending on vintage are $750+. NIB runs you about $850 but I have seen one recently for as low as $700.

[jonnyc]

"I think I can get it worth the money"

Not 100% sure what this means, but if you like the price, get it.

[Seven High]

Around here NIB Hipowers go for $899.00 plus tax. kind of pricey. I'd love to find a good commercial one for $650.00.

[Joe_Pike]

What's the difference between contract and commercial. Is it finish, where they're made, how they are marked, ambi safety, etc.?

The one I am looking at is parkerized with fixed sights and ambi safety. I think I may be able to pick it up for about $350. I've seen Hi Powers on Aim Surplus selling recently for $419.

[WVsig]

What's the difference between contract and commercial. Is it finish, where they're made, how they are marked, ambi safety, etc.?

The one I am looking at is parkerized with fixed sights and ambi safety. I think I may be able to pick it up for about $350. I've seen Hi Powers on Aim Surplus selling recently for $419.

Finish and configuration are the biggest difference. Most of the time they are not as nicely finished. They are parkerized or basically epoxy paint. You will see a lot of what I call mix master guns with parts from different vintages in contract guns. The serial numbers are sometime wonky and hard to determine exact DOB because FN did not keep good records on contract pieces. They often used duplicate serial numbers on different contracts.

The guns at AIM are contract guns. They are good shooters but I find their condition to be worse than Coles but they are still solid guns just not a nice finish wise.

They are good shooters. Watch the Parked guns many of them have been refinished so check carefully for pitting under the new finish. If you can get it for $350 with 5 mags and grips get it.

The marks on the trigger guard are Belgium proof marks it might also be a Israeli police marking like this...

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/449314000/449314323/pix423560883.jpg

This is a Belgium proof mark.

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/448821000/448821597/pix173008143.jpg

[SpareMag]

< ggggg>

I just got that GB HP!

Planned to shoot it this wkend, but that didn't happen.

The parked finish is good, the internals look fine. I view this as a cheap way to get intp BHPs.

The ONLY issue I have with the pistol right now is the sights have lost their reflective white inserts. I need to get some paint or nail polish on them.

[Snyper]

That's new terminology for me.
Shooter grade?

That just means it's got some wear, and is meant to be used, not just looked at

[WVsig]

< ggggg>

I just got that GB HP!

Planned to shoot it this wkend, but that didn't happen.

The parked finish is good, the internals look fine. I view this as a cheap way to get intp BHPs.

The ONLY issue I have with the pistol right now is the sights have lost their reflective white inserts. I need to get some paint or nail polish on them.

These days it is the best way to get into an inexpensive BHP. The days of cheap BHPs are gone. I used to be able to find them in the sub $500 range for commercial C series and nice MKIIIs.

CDNN blew FN roll marked guns for under $500 NIB at one time. :eek: should have bought 20 of them.

[Bart Noir]

So you are new to HiPowers. The addiction has taken root!

The gun has a unique design concerning how the sear is tripped. It involves a hinged bar ("sear lever") that is in the slide, the front end of which is pushed up by the trigger assembly. And that is where the magazine disconnect becomes a bit of a controversy.

A part actually needs to slide along the front edge of the magazine, or else the "trigger lever" will not make contact with the sear lever in the slide. If you have a military grade, Indian manufactured and parkerized HP, with parkerized magazines, you can feel the gritty sliding. Then you may take out a certain part and a spring, and there will no longer be any sliding on the magazine.

Or you have a nicely finished gun and magazine so the sliding is not really noticeable. The whole subject of removing this magazine disconnect is controversial and I won't get into it. Search for previous threads about it.

HiPower manual (http://media.browning.com/pdf/om/hipowermanual.pdf)

Bart Noir

[SpareMag]

I don't know what, if anything, this means. But my new-to-me BHP, pictured above, a parked IDF trade-in, I am told, does not have a mag disconnect. The hammer does drop when the trigger is pulled and the mag is out.

Have not put any bang pills thru it yet.

[SpareMag]

These days it is the best way to get into an inexpensive BHP. The days of cheap BHPs are gone. I used to be able to find them in the sub $500 range for commercial C series and nice MKIIIs.



I was at a farm auction this summer that have a beautiful BHP, 70s -80s vintage. It was a classic BHP. I had to drop out of the bidding since I didn't have a job at the time and my discretionary gun fund was limited. But it was a treat to see, and the guy who won it got a great deal for $700.

[RickB]

I remember the "Browning is no longer going to import HPs" scare, about fifteen years ago, and prices going almost as high as they are now.
When the truth came out, that FN was still going to make them, and only that Browning was no longer going to do the importing, prices went back to normal, and I got a lightly-used Mk.III, with box and manual, for $450.
Any chance that HPs will be made in the U.S. FN plant?

[dogtown tom]

RickB....When the truth came out, that FN was still going to make them, and only that Browning was no longer going to do the importing...
Browning is still the only US importer of the FN Hi Power.


Any chance that HPs will be made in the U.S. FN plant?
No.

[WVsig]

I remember the "Browning is no longer going to import HPs" scare, about fifteen years ago, and prices going almost as high as they are now.
When the truth came out, that FN was still going to make them, and only that Browning was no longer going to do the importing, prices went back to normal, and I got a lightly-used Mk.III, with box and manual, for $450.
Any chance that HPs will be made in the U.S. FN plant?

Browning is still the importer of the FN made BHP. There is no other importer for NIB guns. FN did import FN rollmarked guns for a while but they did not sell well and were blown out at under $500 by CDNN. IIRC they were selling 2 for $900 at one point. There are also many secondary importers which will have various rollmarks.

They will not make them here because the pistols made here share nothing but a parent company. The equipment to manufacture them is in Belgium and Portugal. They make as many as they want and if you ask most FFLs they sell everyone that they can get their hands on.

The most I have ever paid for a BHP was $575 IIRC and that was for a practical. I simply cannot pay the $700+ they sell for now.

[RickB]

Quote:
RickB....When the truth came out, that FN was still going to make them, and only that Browning was no longer going to do the importing...

Browning is still the only US importer of the FN Hi Power.

That's interesting, as I can't remember the last time I saw a (obviously) Browning-marked Hi-Power? They have a giant "FN" stamped on the slide, but maybe that just replaced the tiny, "made in Belgium, assembled in Portugal" lettering that they used to have?

EDIT: OK, for a time, FNUSA imported the HP as a FN product, without Browning markings. FN later changed their minds, and Browning again became the U.S. importer. I apparently stopped paying attention after I got mine!

[dogtown tom]

RickB .......Browning again became the U.S. importer....
Not "again" because Browning has never stopped being the US importer.

As said above FNMI imported a few Hi Powers before they decided it was unnecessary duplication of effort.

Which is sad, because the FNMI imported HP's had that beautiful FN logo.

[RickB]

There are FN-made HPs in the United States that were not imported by Browning, and without Browning markings; is that a reasonable statement?

[WVsig]

There are FN-made HPs in the United States that were not imported by Browning, and without Browning markings; is that a reasonable statement?

Yes!!!!!!!!

Dogtown is being a little obtuse which is not uncommon. LOL :eek:

Browning has always been the US importer of Browning marked BHPs. They were not always owned by FN as they are now. IIRC FN acquired them somewhere in the 90s. FN however imported some with FN Rollmarks and not mention of Browning. The were imported by FN who was at that time located in Columbia, SC.

Here is a pic of one:

http://www.vininggunworks.com/FN_Hi_Power_002_op_800x531.jpg

Here is another:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/FXDXI/Browning%20High%20Power/FNHighPower.jpg

They were all MKIII guns some of them has the SFS trigger system which they attempted to sell to the LEO market but there were no takers. IHMO the SFS trigger is a solution in search of a problem.

On top of that there are many FN marked BHPs which were not made for the US market but were later imported into the US via secondary importers. Like PW Arms/KBI/Interarms/Century Arms/TGI Etc....

Like this one:

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz253/WVsig/Action-Works-BHP--5.gif (http://s833.photobucket.com/user/WVsig/media/Action-Works-BHP--5.gif.html)

These days many of them are engraved ever so slightly, just enough to pass regulation, and then refinished. Many of the surplus BHPs that Coles Dist is selling on GB do not have an import mark and show the European FN Rollmarks. No Browning rollmarks.

Current MKIIIs imported by Browning look like this:

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/449905000/449905582/pix623979518.jpg

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/449905000/449905582/pix880298268.jpg

[dogtown tom]

RickB...There are FN-made HPs in the United States that were not imported by Browning, and without Browning markings; is that a reasonable statement?
Yes, no one disputes that.



WVsig ....Dogtown is being a little obtuse which is not uncommon. LOL
"Obtuse"? Who peed in your Cheerios's?

If it hurts your feelings that others on this forum can answer simple questions I'm sorry.

[WVsig]

"Obtuse"? Who peed in your Cheerios's?

If it hurts your feelings that others on this forum can answer simple questions I'm sorry.

Don't eat Cherrios.... and yes obtuse.

difficult to comprehend : not clear or precise in thought or expression

You continue to post and argue that Browning is the single importer of Browning Hi Powers into the US which is simply not the case.

You incorrectly stated that Browning was the only importer of BHPs and have been back peddling and two stepping around that statement ever since in an "obtuse" fashion.

Use of the word does not contain or denote any feelings at all. You maybe projecting something you are experiencing on to me. I am simply addressing what you have written and the convoluted way you have done it.

I love knowledge and information when it is accurate and clearly presented. IMHO your posts in this thread do not qualify.

[WVsig]

Quote:
RickB...There are FN-made HPs in the United States that were not imported by Browning, and without Browning markings; is that a reasonable statement?

Dogtown's reply:
Yes, no one disputes that..

If that is the case it directly contradicts your previous statement.

Browning is still the only US importer of the FN Hi Power.

Or am I being obtuse? LOL:cool:

Sorry for the thread hijack... Surplus BHPs are the way to go if you are looking for a shooter not a collectible or LNIB example. They are cheap functional and easy to get. The sub $500 price tag OTD for most people make them a no brainer. If you already own shooters I suggest looking at the used market carefully. There are still bargains out there but you have to be patient and have $$$ ready when the right deal is there.

I have bought and sold and customized more than a dozen BHPs over the years but have never paid top $$$ for a single one prior to customization. The OPs deal sounds solid and if I were him/her I would jump on it.

[dogtown tom]

WVsig You continue to post and argue that Browning is the single importer of Browning Hi Powers into the US which is simply not the case.
Context, you are ignoring it.
My initial reply to RickB was regarding his comment that "Browning was no longer going to do the importing". As Browning never stopped being a factory authorized importer of new FN Hi Powers that statement is incorrect.



You incorrectly stated that Browning was the only importer of BHPs and have been back peddling and two stepping around that statement ever since in an "obtuse" fashion.
I'm not two stepping anything and again, my reply was in regards to new Hi Powers.

Any licensed dealer can import firearms, but that doesn't mean NEW firearms with factory warranty & service.
If you know of another current importer of new FN Hi Powers then please spill the beans.:rolleyes:

Whether AIM, Century, Cole's, etc have imported FN Hi Powers is immaterial......they are used guns. Any jackleg gunshop can do the occasional import of a firearm and mark it as such.

RickB's comment was the supposition that Browning would no longer import Hi Powers. Being that Browning Arms imports only NEW Hi Powers, and has never imported used, military surplus Hi Powers it seems that even you could under the context of my reply.



Use of the word does not contain or denote any feelings at all. You maybe projecting something you are experiencing on to me. I am simply addressing what you have written and the convoluted way you have done it.

I love knowledge and information when it is accurate and clearly presented. IMHO your posts in this thread do not qualify.
In your zeal to be the smartest guy in the thread you ignored the context of my reply to RickB.

[dogtown tom]

WVsig Quote:
RickB...There are FN-made HPs in the United States that were not imported by Browning, and without Browning markings; is that a reasonable statement?

Dogtown's reply:
Yes, no one disputes that..

If that is the case it directly contradicts your previous statement.
No, it doesn't.
For one, RickB isn't asking about current NEW Hi Powers, his question refers to "...HP's in the United States that were not imported by Browning..."

"In the United States..." means exactly that. Prewar and WWII bringbacks will not have BROWNING ARMS marked on the pistol. Neither will the Hi Powers imported by Vector, Cassi, FNMI, and others.

I'm sure you understand the difference.:rolleyes:




Quote:
Browning is still the only US importer of the FN Hi Power.

Or am I being obtuse? LOL
Yeah, you are.