Tough choice

[Icebergb]

Hello guys and gals. I am torn between picking up a springfield trp operator, a sig 228/9, or a hk p200sk. I know none of these are comparable but my goal us to have a solid ccw and 1 for the house and 1 for the car. But if I go with the trp I wobt have funds for another gun so that would be the only 1. If I go with either of the last 2 I will pick up maybe a glock or something. Which would you chose and why?

[rock185]

The P228 for the uses you have indicated. Having owned more than one P228, I admit my bias. I have also owned pistols from the other two manufacturers, though not the exact models you list. I have found the SIG P228s to be accurate, durable, and most importantly, totally reliable pistols with any appropriate ammunition. I am a 1911 guy, but have to admit that a given 1911 might not be reliable as received, whereas the SIG or HK likely will be...ymmv

[marine6680]

The 228 or 229 will serve all three roles well enough. Its a little on the large side for CCW, but it is possible, just a little more difficult than smaller pistols. Its big enough for range and home use, as the grip is large enough for a full grasp.

That and a Sub compact Glock, S&W, or Springfield XD will do a nice job covering your needs.

Or for the price of the TRP... you can buy a Glock 17, 19, and 26... Full size, mid size, and sub compact... S&W and Springfield may have comparable model sizes.


I do like the TRP though, it is a nice pistol, but a bit aggressive for comfortable carry. I think it may even be a little uncomfortable to shoot much without gloves.

[Kreyzhorse]

The TRP is fantastic, by far the best gun on your list. If you can only buy one gun for CCW and home protection I would opt for a smaller option.

Not that you can't carry a 1911 full time, but a smaller gun will give you some more options.

[Icebergb]

Ok seems like there is alot of people saying sig. My only problem with sig is I am a lefty.

[TunnelRat]

Ok seems like there is alot of people saying sig. My only problem with sig is I am a lefty.

I've owned over 4 dozen handguns at this point. I can't think of too many pistols that I've owned that shoot as well as the P2000sk, fullsize models included, and are as reliable. It's my current ccw choice, with ease.

[Kreyzhorse]

Ok seems like there is alot of people saying sig. My only problem with sig is I am a lefty.

I'm a lefty as well and I've never came across a hand gun that I couldn't adapt to in a few minutes. You would be surprised what a non issue it really is.

[loose_holster_dan]

while all are fine weapons, i lean towards the p228/9. unfortunately, this is one of the few guns i've always wanted that never made it into my safe. getting married tends to put a damper on gun buying, and i ran out of time. i have however owned two p226's. both were phenomenal weapons.

i know some people are going to call me crazy, but in my experience, one high quality 1911 is too similar to all the other high quality 1911's to notice much of a difference. so if you already have a mid/high grade colt, springfield, etc., another isn't going to feel any better or worse. now if you don't have a nice 1911 already, the trp is a great choice.

i don't much care for the polymer hk's. never shot the sk, but i was not a fan of the p2000. way too much muzzle flip for such a large weapon, and it felt very bulky (even compared to the p226) even in my very large hands.

[kcub]

HK

Ambi mag release

229 is also good, both in .357 Sig especially as a car gun

[Icebergb]

So many options. I have really been looking hard at the sigs from the 220 compact and carry to the 226 navy. Loose I do believe you are right about the 1911. So I am really starting to think sig more than the others. I have a nice kimber and I also have a hk already.

[flintlock62]

Actually, I would go for a H&K P30. The ergo's on that gun is fantastic, and it's fully ambidextrous! I have the P30S V3, best gun I've ever owned. Some people seem hung up on HK's paddle mag release. Not me, I love it. Funny thing too, I notice less barrel flip on my HK which proves recoil is perceived differently in different hands.

Sigs are fine, but they weigh more, and the slide rides higher, so more barrel flip, (not percieved, physics involved here), and it's not ambi.

If I were going for a 1911 style and money was an issue, I would look at a Rock Island Armory Tactical. My next step up is a Colt Combat Commander. No money issue 1911 would be a Nighthawk, or Wilson Combat.

[TunnelRat]

but i was not a fan of the p2000. way too much muzzle flip for such a large weapon, and it felt very bulky (even compared to the p226) even in my very large hands.

Wow, that's the complete opposite of my experience. I've own a number of P2000s (still own too) and the muzzle flip is very mild. It is a polymer pistol so idk what you are comparing it to. As far as bulkiness, it's waaay less than a P226. It's the same dimensions as a Glock 19 and the grip is noticeably thinner than a Glock 19.

So many options. I have really been looking hard at the sigs from the 220 compact and carry to the 226 navy. Loose I do believe you are right about the 1911. So I am really starting to think sig more than the others. I have a nice kimber and I also have a hk already.

Figure out what you want from the gun first and go from there.

[kcub]

My experience mirrors tunnelrat's, p2ksk very light recoil for a .40 or 357.

Springfield I would not consider due to poor customer service experience.

[softmentor]

P2000sk unmatched reliability, great recoil reduction for a better shooting gun. But really, choosing based on a popularity pole is a pour way to choose. The best test is for you to shoot all three a couple of times and see which one YOU shoot the best with. That is the one you should depend on.

[EvgeniBG]

HK P2000 (but not the SK). Polymer frame, light weight, great accuracy for a compact, HK's reliability and quality of production...
This would be my choice.
Otherwise there's nothing wrong with SK - probably the best sub-compact shooter, but I just dislike sub-compacts in general.

[TunnelRat]

But really, choosing based on a popularity pole is a pour way to choose. [sic]

This is true. People will likely vote for the guns they currently own. The more owned pistol will receive more votes. Now often pistols become popular by being good, so that isn't a bad thing. But it's something to keep in mind.

[iMagUdspEllr]

I'm a lefty also. I didn't buy a Sig for a long time because I thought I needed left handed controls.

A DA/SA is meant to be carried decocked with a round in the chamber and if you have to use it you are going to draw and shoot. You don't have to worry about having to test your decocking skills in a self-defense situation. Also, I can shift my grip and decock a Sig left-handed just fine. I like the Sig platform over other DA/SA platforms because there is no safety to worry about being accidentally engaged when you didn't intend it to be. As far as Sig vs HK... Sigs have a shorter trigger reset... especially if you get a Sig with an SRT trigger.

Now, if you are going to have a safety you might as well get the sweetest trigger known to man (well... known to me anyway) in exchange for training to deactivate the safety on every draw. And, that trigger is found in a 1911.

So, yeah, it is a tough choice depending on your preferences. I find that Sigs have very nice triggers even though they aren't on par with a 1911 trigger (what is?). But, you don't have a safety to worry about... so it is a trade-off. Safety and the sweetest trigger ever on a 1911... or no safety and a very nice trigger on the Sig. The HK has less desirable trigger (imo) and it has a safety unless you ensure you get a decock-only version.

[TunnelRat]

The HK has less desirable trigger (imo) and it has a safety unless you ensure you get a decock-only version.

There is no P2000sk with a safety.

[iMagUdspEllr]

@TunnelRat: Oh, I see. Well then that just leaves the undesirable trigger reset compared to the Sig and 1911, then.

[TunnelRat]

Oh, I see. Well then that just leaves the undesirable trigger reset compared to the Sig and 1911, then.

Lol, indeed. To each his own.

[flintlock62]

Personally, I don't see the HK trigger as undesirable. Under stress, it may not be wise to have a trigger that goes off too easily. As for accuracy, I can rapid fire a HK just fine out to 25 yards.

The grip of a P30 fits my hand like a glove, and they have three back panels, and three side panels to help customize it to fit your hand. The HK is also a bit lighter, so for EDC, I would choose it over the Sig. Sigs are good guns, don't get me wrong.

One needs to handle a few guns to see what is best for them, and if one has the opportunity, shoot them before buying.

[iMagUdspEllr]

@flintlock62: The Sig and the HK are both equally difficult/easy to fire a shot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they both have a 10lbish DA and a 5lbish SA trigger? Well, you can get the HK in a LEM version but it still falls between those two weights, right? The trigger reset is just how far you have to release your trigger finger after you have already fired. That way you are less likely to short-stroke the trigger... so when you want the gun to fire it does... instead of not firing.

I would trade my sig for a P30 in a heartbeat if I heard of a way to make the trigger reset match a Sig SRT trigger. But, all the modifications only seem to change the pounds or the type of trigger... not the reset.

[Uncle Malice]

I would trade my sig for a P30 in a heartbeat if I heard of a way to make the trigger reset match a Sig SRT trigger. But, all the modifications only seem to change the pounds or the type of trigger... not the reset.

You might want to talk to Bruce Gray. :)

[TunnelRat]

That way you are less likely to short-stroke the trigger... so when you want the gun to fire it does... instead of not firing.

Assuming you do short stroke the trigger. Any trigger can be short stroked as you said. It's imperative to learn the trigger of each firearm. The reset on a P series HK is very similar to the reset on a stock P series Sig without the SRT. If you find it a problem to short stroke such a trigger then yes you should seek an alternative.

You might want to talk to Bruce Gray.

Mr. Gray can work magic, but I still think the P series Sig with a SRT would have a shorter reset than a P series HK after Gray. But I have no frame of reference and haven't seen a good video yet showing the results.

[iMagUdspEllr]

@TunnelRat: I haven't met anyone who can short stroke a 1911, Glock, M9, A Sig with an SRT trigger, etc. It is very difficult to short stroke on an M&P and an XD(M) is a little easier. it is very easy to short stroke a P250, a revolver, etc. The DA/SA and LEM HKs I have handled are somewhere between an XD(M) and a DAO trigger (closer to the XD(M)) as far as how long the reset is. So, that is undesirable when your finger is twitching around under-stress and the gun is only firing every other trigger pull. I'm fairly certain if that was all you knew you would never short stroke it but it is very disorienting for me going from Glocks, 1911s, PX4s, M9s, et cetera to other guns that have a reset multiple times longer than the aforementioned firearms.

I don't remember saying that any gun can be short-stroked. Quite a few guns don't seem to be able to be short-stroked at all. Some guns immediately reset if you move your finger a millimeter and others are progressively worse depending on how long of a reset they were designed to have.

Mr. Gray can work magic, but I still think the P series Sig with a SRT would have a shorter reset than a P series HK after Gray. But I have no frame of reference and haven't seen a good video yet showing the results.

I'm sorry to hear that. I was kinda excited. It is a $300+ package. That plan will have to go on the back-burner for me. Ugh... the P30 looks so awesome, though...

[TunnelRat]

So, that is undesirable when your finger is twitching around under-stress and the gun is only firing every other trigger pull.

While possible, it is often the case that some people under stress start slapping the trigger i.e. releasing completely and jerking. I haven't heard of a massive number of reports of folks short stroking revolvers for instance.

I'm fairly certain if that was all you knew you would never short stroke it but it is very disorienting for me going from Glocks, 1911s, PX4s, M9s, et cetera to other guns that have a reset multiple times longer than the aforementioned firearms.

A very valid point. Though I never found the PX4 to have an incredibly short reset. In fact in my mind it's pretty comparable to the P series HK.

Edit: I haven't owned a PX4 for some time though.

[Brotherbadger]

Both the HK and the 228 are great guns(no experience with the other so i can't speak to it). My personal choice is the 228. I'd find a place where you can handle both, then see which fits you best.

[Icebergb]

Ok I do believe I will be going with a sig. Now the question is what is the major difference in the w.german ones and the ones from New Hampshire. It will be a p series (226,228,229)

[5whiskey]

While possible, it is often the case that some people under stress start slapping the trigger i.e. releasing completely and jerking. I haven't heard of a massive number of reports of folks short stroking revolvers for instance.

I think this is quite likely with VERY WELL TRAINED people that have learned on short-reset or SA firearms. I'm military trained (and have seen combat), and my initial pistol training was with the M9. Short stroking isn't as much of a problem with a SA follow up pull ala Beretta 92, most sigs, CZ's, and a number of other firearms. My first personally owned pistol was a 1911... no short strokes there (obviously). Then I separated from the military and became a cop for an agency that loves Sigs. Another DA/SA. Another "no short stroke." Then I started doing some U/C work and carried a Kahr. Short stroked on the range breaking it in at first, but I got used to the trigger pull pretty quickly. A few months ago I did some high-stress shoot/no shoot, shoot house, shoot on the move, shoot in the dark, shoot under duress training. Short stroked the HECK out of every other shot with the Kahr. Did not with my service P220. I went through the course with the Kahr first, as that's what I carry more often. The follow up was with the P220, and I swear I was slapping the heck out of the trigger. While I didn't get a few shots in with the Kahr because of time (time lost to short stroking), my groups were pretty good. Groups with the P220 weren't as good as with the CW9. I attribute this to slapping the trigger and not using proper follow-up with that pistol because I was so self-conscience about short stroking the Kahr.

SO... I guess the moral of the story is if you've been very well trained (or at least put a ton of trigger time in) to a shorter trigger reset, short stroking can be a real issue in real life. Granted, I've never been in a deadly force incident with the Kahr I now carry (soon to switch to the Sig P290... VERY bad trigger that I hate), but it is a concern of mine. If I could put 5 or 6k rounds through it over the course of a year, and some with high-stress range time, then I wouldn't worry so much. BUT... as it stands it's still an issue in the back of my mind.

To the OP... my vote is for the SIG if you already own a 1911. Honestly I can't judge the HK platform as I don't have any experience with it. It may be better than both and I'm giving you bad advice. I'm just calling it from my experience.

[Icebergb]

Well I pulled the trigger on the sig. Its not the 228 but it is the 229. Will pick it up tomorrow and take it to the range. Thanks guys and gals for the input

[Uncle Malice]

Congratulations! Pics when you get it!

[Icebergb]

My new sig p229. Now I just need to get to the range and see how it shoots. Well it seems as though I cant upload any pix now so maybe latee

[BingoFuel]

If you are using the gun for carrying, as your post notes, I would not choose the TRP. From my perspective the 1911 just misses out on reliability and safety to qualify as a top flight carry piece. It's beautiful, a great range and collectible gun, but not for personal safety in the home or on the street. Additionally you noted that choosing the TRP would leave you at least one gun short. So a no-brainer.
I'm a bit of an H&K guy so I picked the 2000 but I'd actually choose a P30 ahead of that. And if your heart wanted the Sig, that would be an equivalent choice so long as you are right handed.
B

[Mastrogiacomo]

I haven't read all the posts, sorry, but I have the Sig 228, quite possibly the very best in the Sig line...

Laura

[dgludwig]

Good choice, Icebergb-it's the one I would have picked of the three you listed.

[DannyB1954]

Much to the dismay of many of us, time marches on. I would say get the one that you would love to have. Sooner or later you will have the funds to get the next gun that you fancy.
If you compromise you will tend to regret it at a later time. What I like may not suit your situation, so I hereby give you permission to use your own best judgement, and ignore the rest of us experts, (or so we think).

[Icebergb]

Good point dannyb. I have thus come to the conclusion that I will get another sig and probably another glock. For all the bad talk and hatred toward the glock I just cant get away from them. They work and there is no denying that. Next sig either a real 228, p227, or either a mk25 or scorpion something

[Dirty_Harry]

Congrats on the purchase!

[DannyB1954]

For all the bad talk and hatred toward the glock I just cant get away from them

You are the most qualified person to determine what you like. Other people can only tell you what they like. The Glock is perfect for what it was designed to do. It was not designed to be a collectable, or pretty, or expensive.

I don't know if you ever heard the story about the King Has No Clothes, but the moral of the story is just because people jump on the bandwagon and say something is great, that doesn't really make it so. I have a Glock, and a S&W, and a Taurus, and a Ruger and a etc. So I am not a fan boy of a make or model. I get what I like, not what "they " like.