How do you use double triggers?

[OkieCruffler]

I only ask because I got into a conversation with a couple of fellows at a gunshop about it. We were looking at a sexy little Spanish .410 SXS and one of them said he would buy it but his fingers were too big to get two fingers into the trigger guard to use both triggers. The shop owner agreed. I tried to explain to them how you only used one finger to pull the triggers and was berated as a fool for not knowing what I was doing. Have I been doing it wrong for 30 years? Has my grandfather who taught me been doing it wrong for the past 70?

[jmr40]

I have always used 1 finger. Seems like too great of a chance for it to unintentionally double with 2 fingers in there. But I don't consider myself an expert by any means on this topic. Just the way I've always done it.

The only evidence I can provide to support my claim that 1 finger should be used is based on the fact that the English style straight stock is designed to make it easier to reposition that finger from one trigger to the other. Pistol gripped shotguns became more common after the development of the single trigger doubles.

[Doc Intrepid]

I don't know how young (or old) your gunshop gurus were, but it takes me some fraction of a second or two to regain a bead for that second shell. Plenty of time to move your index finger from the first trigger to the second.

Unless you use your SxS to clear phone booths at 3 feet, or you like to fire both barrels simultaneously, I can't imagine that you'd gain much in efficiency or performance by using two fingers - one on each trigger. Can you pick up another sight picture that rapidly? Sure it can be done...but what does it really buy you?

[OkieCruffler]

They were both from a generation older than mine which is why it confused me abit. A 20 year old sees double triggers, heck it would probably be for the first time, I can understand the confusion. Now I'll admit to hooking 2 booger pickers in there to fire both barrels at once a few times for kicks, but its a very unnatural feeling. I wonder if that's why so many people hate double triggers?
After 3 decades of shooting double triggers I honestly don't notice any delay in bringing the finger back to the rear trigger. Even shooting rear trigger first isn't that noticeable.

[Virginian]

Are you sure they weren't pulling your leg? If not, they were just run of the mill idiots.

[Willie Lowman]

Run of the mill idiots is right.

...But how can you pull both triggers at the same time if you don't have both fingers in the trigger guard?

[OkieCruffler]

At first I thought they were a funnin' me. When I showed them how to slide your finger back the owner informed me that if that was the way they wanted it done they wouldn't have bothered putting two triggers on the gun.

[Pahoo]

I'm of the opinion that they were setting you up. .... ;)
If that is how they want to shoot, then fine but to then berate you for your opinion, was wrong. In this situation I would have had the last word. I guess you can say that I am of that generation and learned to hunt with doubles and using one finger. There were times when I chose to use two fingers but not often .... :rolleyes:

I think the problem might have started when you challenged that old fool on the use of just one finger. .... :)

Be Safe !!!

[44 AMP]

I won't say they are wrong to do it that way. But they were wrong to berate you for doing it differently. (assuming, of course that they were serious, and not just old pharts giving a "kid" a bunch of BS, because they could)

I would have asked them if they use two fingers on a rifle with two triggers? (double set triggers, NOT a double barrel rifle) :D

Personally, I've never been really comfortable with a double barrel that only has ONE trigger.

Traditionally, the front trigger is for the more open choked barrel (usually the right), and the rear for the tighter choked (longer range) barrel, where you are taking a bit more time to aim, so moving your finger back to the other trigger costs nothing in terms of "efficiency".

[Pahoo]

On a related issue and understand that I do not shoot skeet or clays. In fact, the only clay birds I shoot are ones I lay on the berms and shoot with my rifles. .... ;)

If one shoots skeet or clays with a double, do you still use the one finger of go with two? .... :confused:

Be Safe !!!

[jaguarxk120]

Generally a double rifle has two triggers. That's because there are less parts to go wrong.

Two fingers on two triggers is asking for a double discharge. The guy's in the gun shop are idiot's and if you ever go shooting/hunting with them make sure they are the next county over.

[BigJimP]

One finger inside the trigger guard - when you're shooting clays...or in the field for live birds for that matter....is the predominant way to shoot a double trigger gun.

Putting 2 fingers inside the trigger guard - really changes your grip on the gun / and it makes no sense to me ---- to me its in the, you could do it that way, but why ?? -- and you'd run a pretty big risk of the gun doubling in my view ( which may not be a big deal with a .410 / but it'll mean a lost target or a lost bird ) firing both barrels at one target is not the way to go !

I'm no expert with double triggers...but I consulted a buddy, who is - and he agrees with my approach. One finger gives you more feel of the trigger - and more control of the gun with your other 4 fingers holding the gun. He's hunted in Scotland, and shot clays all over ...with double guns / says he's never seen someone put 2 fingers inside the trigger guard.

[PetahW]

.

Yep - the only time I shot a SxS with both fingers on the triggers was about 50 years ago when I was young & foolish.

I almost broke my collarbone, when both barrels discharged.

I only found out later, the reason why - the recoil of the 1st bbl, combined with a natural human reflex to "hang on", caused the 2nd finger to pull it's trigger almost instantaniously.


.

[OkieCruffler]

Well I grew up and was taught bird/clay shooting by my grandfather and his friends who saw anything other than a SXS to be undesirable and just a bit uncouth. I never saw any of them use two fingers. Just for kicks (turns out literally) I went out back and attempted to shoot with a finger on each trigger. First off, it's uncomfortable. I can't imagine ever getting used to it so that I could get a smooth swing. Secondly, as I suspected, the recoil from pulling the front trigger caused a second trigger pull a fraction of a second later. Even with my light loads that was eye opening.
I should add that this shop is more tactical leaning than sporting. A lot more plastic than wood and barrels over 20" are few.

[Pahoo]

One finger gives you more feel of the trigger - and more control of the gun with your other 4 fingers holding the gun. He's hunted in Scotland, and shot clays all over ...with double guns / says he's never seen someone put 2 fingers inside the trigger guard
Great reply and although a few may disagree, I'm buying it. .... ;)

Be Safe !!!

[zippy13]

One finger.
Perhaps your gun shop gurus have seen too many movies with lines something like, "Give 'em both barrels."

[SDC]

The way I was always told is ONE finger in the trigger-guard, and you go from front to back, because that's the way hunting guns are usually choked; the front trigger fires the open/less-choked barrel, and the rear trigger fires the tighter/more-choked barrel, because a follow-up shot will usually be on a target that's already flying away from you.

[Jim Watson]

Are a lot of British and Continental doubles set up to fire the choke barrel first, the open barrel second on driven game?
Not everybody shoots rough on flushing game.

[OkieCruffler]

Most double birds in skeet I fire rear trigger first on the outgoing clay then rear on the incoming. I'm shooting a single trigger Citori now but still say the double trigger is superior.

[B.L.E.]

Working behind the counter of a gun shop does not necessarily mean someone is knowledgeable about guns or shooting. His gun expertise might be in something other than shotguns and he just passes on what he is told when it comes to shotguns.
Remember, the guy behind the counter is a salesman, not necessarily a shooting expert.

[Model12Win]

I like to pull both triggers at once on my old 12 gauge coach gun.

With two 3" magnum 15 pellet 00 buckshot rounds, you essentially have what equates to a mag dump from a MAC-11 .380 ACP machine pistol fired instantaneously.

Yes it hurts, but if any gun truly has "stopping power", that would be the very definition of it. :cool:

[B.L.E.]

I like to pull both triggers at once on my old 12 gauge coach gun.

With two 3" magnum 15 pellet 00 buckshot rounds, you essentially have what equates to a mag dump from a MAC-11 .380 ACP machine pistol fired instantaneously.

Yes it hurts, but if any gun truly has "stopping power", that would be the very definition of it

That's like shooting a 4 gauge. Most 4 gauge shotguns weigh around 12-16 pounds so you can stand to shoot it more than once.

When you double the weight of the shot, it doesn't double the recoil energy, it quadruples it.

[Mike Irwin]

Two fingers?

What?

If that's "right," I so very much intend to be wrong.

[dgludwig]

This is probably the first time in my life (and I'm older than seventy) that I've ever heard of using two fingers to fire a shotgun that has two triggers. A ridiculous idea imo.

[ZVP]

One finger!
Most Doubles are set up to fire the right bbl with the front trigger, this would be the most open choked barrel for a rising phesant shot close-up, then if you missed or if another bird flushes and flies away from you, then you fire the rear trigger which is a tighter choked barrel giving a tighter group to hit the other bird on the way away from you.
There's lots of time to get your finger moved. for the second trigger.
Also like was said, each single trigger is a simpler mechanism more likely to fire on command!
JMHO,
ZVP

[HawkeyeNRAlifer]

Two of my three o/u shotguns have two triggers. I learn to shoot using two triggers and find it quicker to select the barrel/choke I need when bird hunting that to hit the selector button on my SKB when needing the tighter choke.
My guess is that the guys were just joshing with you.

[B.L.E.]

I have heard of double single triggers on some really high end doubles, combining the best of double triggers and single trigger designs.
The front trigger fires the bottom or right barrel on the first pull and the other barrel on the second pull.
The rear trigger fires the top or left barrel on the first pull and the other barrel on the second pull.

[dgludwig]

The Browning Superposed (the "Twin-Single"variant) and the Mauser Model 620 are two shotguns that offered this feature on some of their guns. Imo, this double trigger set-up, at least theoretically, is by far the best approach to "barrel selection" but over time I have read that the mechanism was overly complicated, expensive to make and failure prone.

[darkgael]

Seems to me that I read one of Michael McIntosh's books about shotgunning in which he discusses the fact that single trigger guns have a disconnect that operates during recoil and which isolates the trigger from the sear because under recoil the trigger finger involuntarily pulls the trigger a second time.
Does that idea sound familiar to anyone else?
If I am remembering that correctly, then putting fingers on both triggers of a double trigger gun seems unwise at best.
Pete

[B.L.E.]

One of the earliest solutions to the problem of single trigger guns bump firing the second barrel due to recoil pulling the gun away from the trigger finger and then bouncing back was something called the "three pull trigger". If you dry fire the gun, the first pull releases the first hammer, the second pull switches the trigger to the second sear, and the third pull released the second hammer.
During actual shooting, the trigger switches to the other sear from the gun rebounding off your shoulder after the first shot causing you to pull the trigger twice and it appears like it only takes two pulls of the trigger.
I learned about this from a book written by W.W. Greener.

My Ruger O/U has an inertia weight that blocks the trigger while the gun is under recoil to prevent a bump fire double discharge. It has a mechanical trigger, you can dry fire both barrels withoug having to bump the stock to simulate recoil to get it to switch barrels.

[Husqvarna]

This is probably the first time in my life (and I'm older than seventy) that I've ever heard of using two fingers to fire a shotgun that has two triggers. A ridiculous idea imo.

a perfectly accepted technique to get more lead in the air for hunting:D

no but seriously I have heard oldtimers say this

And I think it is/was Perazzi that offered a sbs with a third trigger that fired both barrels at once, the barrels were even manufactured with a slight dispersion, to get as big a swarm as possible

[HiBC]

One finger,either bbl first.

Many side by sides are fine old shotguns of considerable value.

There is a style of using them.Not slamming them open and closed ,for example.

They are generally made to be as light and slender as possible,with the exception of some waterfowl guns.There is not extra wood in them for overkill strength.
Particularly with sidelocks.

Subjecting them to the recoil of doubling is a bad idea.

[B.L.E.]

One of the problems with shooting both barrels at once is that it is virtually impossible to shoot both barrels exactly at the same time, one will always shoot a fraction of a second before the other. Because of the recoil of the first barrel resulting in barrel jump, the second barrel will always shoot over the target.

Try it on a big patterning board if you don't believe me.

Also, the bore lines of double barrels converge to compensate for barrel jump during the shot's barrel travel. The top barrel of an O/U jumps more than the bottom barrel so it has to be aimed lower to hit the target. The left barrel of a SXS jumps up and to the left while the right barrel jumps up and to the right.

[OkieCruffler]

I've always figured having both barrels going off exactly together would put a lot of stress on the weild.
But I've spoken with my SG guru (my grandfather) and he says he used to shoot with one fella pretty regularly who used a two finger method. And was left handed to boot. Says he shot well enough to hang with the big boys. So I suppose there are folks out there who do this.

[briandg]

?????????

I've never heard anything so stupid. NEVER.

One of the reasons why you would want dual triggers is so you can fire the chokes in order, open first or open second, depending on the direction and distance of the flying game. Most single triggers I have handled had no switch to alternate barrels. You choose your trigger by your CHOKE, not by where the booger hook fits best.

Elmer keith is one of the greatest authorities in use of a double gun known to history. His choice of a double .577 nitro was simple; the sidelock double can have one barrel completely disabled by mechanical failure, but the second barrel will almost certainly still be functional, and be still as good as the single shot rifles that african hunters had used for decades already.

My personal preference is front first, your finger naturally slides from front to back, and I would choose to set my choke tubes in the order that this would be best facilitated, depending on in or outgoing game.

[44 AMP]

I have my Grandfather's Ithaca double, (made to his order in 1909), and while that gun has two triggers, it doesn't matter which one you pull first, because he had the gun choked FULL/FULL!

Takes a bit of practice to get "on" for wingshooting, but when you are on, it really does the job. (full choke, 1909 standards = super full with modern ammo).

Does a number on foxes, though!
:D

[Model12Win]

All I can recommend is that I DON'T recommend firing two 10 gauge 1.5 oz magnum rifled slugs both at the same time.

It will be most uncomfortable. :eek:

[briandg]

yes, but god help the rhinoceros you fired it at.

10 gauge slug IMO is even enough for a big griz. the thing is for most intents equal to a .458 magnum. It's way more than is needed for anything smaller than moose, imo.

[jaguarxk120]

Actually for Rhino the 10 gauge is a bit light the 8 bore is just right.

Back in the day 12 bore was used for thin skinned game and 10 bore for larger game, but not on any animal that would trample or eat you!

[skizzums]

I watched some youtube videos of people firing 4ga and 2ga. pretty awesome. I had no idea they went that big. guess they are black powder, but still
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsvizH4U26E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uJouw9uh84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzwbcVbE9rw

my friends grandfather left him a 10ga, which we only had 2 shells for. I shot it once, birdshot, not as bad as one would think in an old heavy double

[mulespurs]

As I recall when I was a teenager and hunted with a 10 ga double I learned not to shoot the front trigger first because my finger slipped off to the second trigger and the two shots doubling with a 10 ga 3 1/2" and 2 oz loads at a duck almost drove me down in the swamp.

I don't need to do that again, you do as you wish.

[Blue Duck]

They were either stupid or just plain didn't know what they were talking about, or joshing you.

I have hunted with and shot side by sides for 40yrs. As far as I am concerned, the double trigger side by side is nearly perfect for hunting flushing birds. And most of the time, one shoots the more open choked barrel first, but it seem that on almost every hunt, there is a time when a bird flushed almost out of range and I will want to fire the tighter choked barrel first. With the double trigger gun, I have instant choice of which barrel to choose, by just slipping my finger back to the rear trigger on most of my guns. I have never had a single selective trigger that I could choose chokes on, in the heat of the flush.

Shooting with two fingers is only a stunt done or tried mostly by a person that is trying to show off or just plain inexperienced with double trigger guns.

[k357]

This sounds painful ,stupid, & dangerous, & there's ZERO chance of me trying it with my Stevens 311!

[OkieCruffler]

I'm ashamed to admit this but I haven't pulled either trigger on my 311 in a long time. Finally got used to the single trigger on the Citori (and that took some doing) and never looked back.

[Virginian]

One finger in the trigger guard is the only correct way for wingshooting.
I have also heard it said that the reason for straight stocks is so that you can slide your hand more easily when you change triggers. While some people may do this, I have been shooting SxSs with two triggers for several decades and I have yet to have to move anything but my trigger finger to change triggers going in either direction depending on whether the target was incoming or outgoing. I have owned SxSs in everything from 10 gauge to 28, except 16 and .410, and I have no preference between two triggers and a good single trigger, except for heavy waterfowling, and there I do prefer a single trigger. I do not tend to grip a gun tightly, and I have had the back of the trigger guard beat the devil out of my middle finger more than once with double trigger guns and very heavy loads, even with gloves on.

[FITASC]

^^^^^ yep. IMO DT work best with a straight English stock as it allows you to slide your hand ever so slightly so you can use either trigger first in a quick manner. SxS guns with single triggers, beavertail forearms and pistol grips just look so wrong in so many ways!....:eek::D

[44 AMP]

I'll agree with the single trigger and beavertail forend looking "wrong". Not so the pistol grip.

My Grandfather's Ithaca has double triggers, a splinter forend and a pistol grip. It's been in my family over 100 years. NOTHING could look more "right".
:D

[FITASC]

That would depend on the pistol grip - many old guns like yours had such a slight grip, even less pronounced than the standard POW, that they may as well have been an English style.

This:

http://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_456/gi_100514862/100514862_456_AE80073BBF50A623.JPG

as opposed to this:

http://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_22273/gi_100433234/100433234_22273_461314FC252EDDB6.JPG