Com Block Semis

[uradaisyifudo]

Anybody else just find the old semi auto soviet/Yugoslav/Czech guns appealing aesthicaly? Moreover there are many out there available at a good value, old CZs, Makarovs, Tokarevs, etc. I'd be interested in a discussion as to where y'all might have bought one, how you have liked it, and for those of less common calibers, what is availability like and your thoughts on ammunition performance? What regions/manufacturers might have contributed to better guns? I know this is not a narrow topic, but I really like my CZ 75 which is modern handgun, but still has classic lines and heritage. Pics would be appreciated because I think they look cool, as said. Thanks

[pelo801]

I love those things.
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k481/pelo801/cz244.jpg (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/pelo801/media/cz244.jpg.html)
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k481/pelo801/cz245.jpg (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/pelo801/media/cz245.jpg.html)
Here's an old CZ24 from '25 I believe

[uradaisyifudo]

That old CZ is awesome, is that 9 x 17? The vintage is great too.

[pelo801]

For me it started with my very first gun. I bought it off a guy from a classifieds site. It was a special edition Bulgarian makarov. Ever since then I've been piecing together an assortment of com bloc guns. They just appeal to me. I don't know why. Maybe it's the history or the utilitarian feel. Either way I think they're great guns.

Yes that cz24 is 9 x 17. It's not much to look at with the pitting and all, but still shoots good.

[pelo801]

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k481/pelo801/ttc.jpg (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/pelo801/media/ttc.jpg.html)
This is my TTC.

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

I have always considered the Pistolet Makarova to be one of the most ingeniously-designed handguns of all time. The TT33 is built like a T-34 and is a riot to shoot - especially if you have some new guys close by! And the Radom P-64 CZAK is a great little pocket gun - I would much rather have one of them than a PPK or PPK/S. But I am truly in love with Česká Zbrojovka pistols. At last count, I had a vz.50, a vz.52, a vz.70, two vz.82s, and one ČZ-75 Compact on order (just to "modernize" my collection). ;)

[uradaisyifudo]

The toks are very appealing to me, the 7.62 by 25 is also appealing, that can be a fast penetrating round. Thanks again for the pic, can you feed those things regularly?

[uradaisyifudo]

And... Hoosier, I also dig the CZs! I have been looking to expand my own collection. Your font ability and spelling out CZ is also impressive...

[JimmyR]

I started with the CZ 70, but it didn't really last long in my collection. Then I got my hands on my Bulgarian Mak, and my love for 9x18 just won't stop. Then I got the CZ 82- life is good. :D

[pelo801]

I'd also like to throw in some of the Spanish pistols, if you don't mind, that we're used in some of the same arenas. I really like the Astras. Others like the Ruby pistol and the Star are pretty cool too.

As for feeding the Tok, I came across a guy that was selling all his Tok ammo. So I bought it all. I paid about $500 for a little over 4500 rds.

[Walt Sherrill]

...but I really like my CZ 75 which is modern handgun, but still has classic lines and heritage.

I like the CZ-75, too, and the CZ-75 is just a few years older than the Glock 17 (which was designed in 1979, and put into service in 1982.) Classic lines? It looks a bit like a BHP, but not much like anything else. The looks just appeal to many of us.

But, except for the fact that the CZ-75 uses the Browning short-recoil design, there's not much heritage involved: it was essentially an all-new design not based on anything previously built by CZ, and quite different than other DA/SA guns of the period. (Unlike the rest of the CZ handguns, the 75 was apparently designed for export/civilian use, and not WWI/WWII use, or the Communist Bloc war machine. The Communists didn't use 9x19...)

For me, the outstanding Communist Block pistol design is the Makarov; a simple but elegant design that has proved to be effective, reliable, and accurate. The CZ-82/83 is almost as good -- and I much prefer it to the Mak -- but it is a bit bigger and a bit more complex. Both are great guns.

Most of the other Communist Bloc pistols are, to my thinking, only so-so weapons, at best. Most of these weapons were "offspring" of a very utilitarian Soviet-system approach to weapon design and production: make it simple and easy to maintain, don't use exotic materials, don't make it hard to build, and don't worry too much about whether the shooter likes it.

.

[agtman]

Anybody else just find the old semi auto soviet/Yugoslav/Czech guns appealing aesthicaly? ***

Yep. Like this one. It's a CZ 82 (9mm Makarov.)
We ditched the chipping Commie paint and refinished it in multicam. :eek: Great shooter too.

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/agtman/CZ6.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/agtman/media/CZ6.jpg.html)

:cool:

[uradaisyifudo]

I've seen some sweet deals on surplus CZ 82s lately, it is probably time to pull the trigger and get one.

[pelo801]

The CZ82 is a great gun. They have a really good DA trigger and better sights than a Makarov. But I still like the Maks better.

[pelo801]

Here's pretty cool Romanian gun. A Carpati model 95. Not something you see everyday. Kinda PPK like. Has a horrible DA trigger. Still cool though

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k481/pelo801/carpatimodel953.jpg (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/pelo801/media/carpatimodel953.jpg.html)

[uradaisyifudo]

I have not seen one of those before, funny timing though, I was just looking at some older Walthers on another site and it does look similar. I could be adding a new dimension to my existing gun habit...

[HistoryJunkie]

Looks a lot like a P64, which also has a horrid DA trigger. It might be worth looking at the trigger mechanism... maybe you could use a P64 Wolf Spring. If so, that would reduce the trigger pull to a manageable level.

[pelo801]

I also have a P64. And yes they also have god awful DA trigger. Changing out the springs on those two is on the really long list, along with many other things to do. The P64 does have a really crisp SA pull. I think I'll also change out the recoil spring on it, because it's pretty snappy.

[madmo44mag]

I have several Com-Bloc pistols chambered for 7.62x25 and love them all.
I wish Starr Line brass would produce more brass so I could afford to shoot them more often.
My supply of Com-Bloc ammo is down to less than 5,000 rounds.
At 5 cents a round it was some cheap shooting but those days are over.

[pelo801]

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k481/pelo801/czmodel70.jpg (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/pelo801/media/czmodel70.jpg.html)
This is a fun little Crvena Zastava model 70.

[Walt Sherrill]

I was confused -- until I read your description more closely:

CRVENA ZASTAVA, not CZESKA ZBROJOVKA... Duh.

First one of those I've seen! (Made in Serbia.)

The company apparently make the CZ99 and later guns, too. Those guns look like SIGs, but I don't know how close the resemblance is, otherwise.

[shaunpain]

I have a Tokarev and a Makarov that are hardly ever fired due to the very small amount of ammunition I have, which for factory new are rather expensive. I'm saving the brass and I plan on buying the dies to handload it eventually, but finding new brass has proved very difficult. I love the guns, however, I wish it were easier to get new ammo at decent prices. Great guns, though.

[pelo801]

I'm not too familiar with Sigs, so I can't say how similar the Crvena Zastava is. But it was made back when it still was Yugoslavia. But tomatoes.

But I do have a pretty cool PHP MV 9mm, that says made in Croatia. Looks like a Walther P38 and a Beretta mash up.
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k481/pelo801/image_zps0ad9aaad.jpg (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/pelo801/media/image_zps0ad9aaad.jpg.html)

[Skans]

These are interesting guns, for sure. But, I just have to wonder why the Russians never made any firearm even remotely refined. Is it because civilians could never own them, so they only have military purpose? I have seen Nambus that appear more refined than these Russian guns. How can they be so close to Germany, Switzerland and Austria yet never produce anything truly exceptional?

[Walt Sherrill]

These are interesting guns, for sure. But, I just have to wonder why the Russians never made any firearm even remotely refined. Is it because civilians could never own them, so they only have military purpose? I have seen Nambus that appear more refined than these Russian guns. How can they be so close to Germany, Switzerland and Austria yet never produce anything truly exceptional?

Private ownership of handguns wasn't generally allowed in the countries that were the old Communist Bloc.

That being the case, most handguns were designed for military use. And the Soviet military had a VERY UTILITARIAN approach to all of their weapons -- from handguns to their most advanced jets or submarines. They built them strong, often using innovative approaches and design concepts -- but didn't rely on the latest technology or materials (probably because they didn't have the money or the technical savvy to build or use that technology or materials.)

Both the Makarov and AK-47 seem to be "truly exceptional." (While a different category, some of their more modern jet fighters are truly exceptional, as well.)

[GyMac]

I've been shooting and collecting handguns for decades and the Makarov is my favorite handgun.

[Pilot]

The Makarov, especially the Russian mil, East German, and Bulgarian are just wonderful pistols. I sometimes carry a Bulgie Mak and feel well armed.

[barnbwt]

I have a soft spot for the CZ52's Soviet Train looks. It also somehow fits my hand better than a 1911* (that's right, I said it :D) though the slappy trigger and sharp corners favored more "weathered" hands than mine.

TCB

*My first finger digits are kinda long; CZ52's and FNH Five-sevens fit me well, but the 1911 leaves a small gap where my fingers wrap over; a BHP is wide enough that it's less noticeable