Newbie Question

[MtnMike1]

Relatively new to handguns and currently shopping for my first 9 mm. One question I have is rails or no rails. It seems to me having for home defense having a light on your pistol makes you an easy target if the intruder is armed. What is the logic behind the light? I know u see them on tv a lot but I must be missing something.

[jmhyer]

The primary logic behind a light is so you can see and identify your target (and what's beyond it). A secondary benefit is to blind and possibly disorient your opponent. There may be some other benefits that I'm sure will be pointed out by others.

It could be a disadvantage in terms of making you a target, but the advantages are generally felt to outweigh the disadvantages.

[TunnelRat]

What is the logic behind the light?

The logic is making sure you identify your target before you pull the trigger, like any responsible gun owner should. :)

As for whether or not to have the light mounted to the gun or held in the offhand, that's a long argument with pluses and minuses for both sides. I prefer it mounted to the handgun because that leaves both hands to control the weapon and if something were to happen to one arm I can still get light on the target before pulling the trigger.

[mrdaputer]

Before you invest in a light I strongly suggest you invest in ammo to practice and a saftey course.

[Uncle Malice]

I've heard the argument about the light making you a target, but that's nonsense.

It's much easier to handle the firearm with a light attached to it, than to run with the light in your offhand. It's possible of course, but you need to trail with it. Most people have better accuracy using a 2-hand grip on the firearm than one hand and trying to cross over on forearm on your offhand.

In the end... you MUST identify your target before you open fire on a shadowy figure in the night. Whether you think the light makes a target or not is irrelevant.

[Rogervzv]

In the end... you MUST identify your target before you open fire on a shadowy figure in the night. Whether you think the light makes a target or not is irrelevant.

Absolutely correct. Firing one's home defense firearm at a person is a terribly grave act, only to be done when one is absolutely certain that the target is a bad guy and that there is no other way to prevent the bad guy from threatening harm.

[MtnMike1]

Thanks guys, that makes since. I took a safety course a couple of years ago and currently have a CC and I sometimes carry a G27.

Do most of you have a light on your HD weapon?

[jimbob86]

The problem with having a light on the gun is that you have to point the gun at whatever you want to illuminate, and in a high stress event (that sudden bump in the night) you will likely point the gun at whatever you want to see..... if that noise was your daughter who go up to get a drink of water and tripped over the dishwasher door her brother left open ..... I'm thinking pointing a loaded gun at her to see who she is ...... is a "Bad Plan".

I have a flashlight. Several of them. None of which are attached to a gun.

YMMV, and probably will ..... I'm not Operator Enough to stick a light on my pistol .... though I'm positive one of these High Speed Low Drag Retail Security Experts with their own YouTube channel will be along in a moment to tell you how I can overcome my lack of TactiCool with just a bit of daily training and a small investment in a Rooney Gun Starter Kit ......

[TunnelRat]

I'm not Operator Enough to stick a light on my pistol .... though I'm positive one of these High Speed Low Drag Retail Security Experts with their own YouTube channel will be along in a moment to tell you how I can overcome my lack of TactiCool with just a bit of daily training and a small investment in a Rooney Gun Starter Kit

Notice you were the only person on this thread to go negative and start using insults? Why is that? Those that advocated using a weapon mounted light didn't insult those that didn't. You had a very good point about not wanting to point a weapon at a loved one. But then you added this bit at the end. Disappointing.

[jimbob86]

Notice you were the only person on this thread to go negative and start using insults? Why is that?

I'm Sorry, I have nothing positive to say about advocating violation of one (two, actually) of the Four Rules, particularly to New Shooters .... I think it is a dangerous idea, and can not be criticized harshly enough ....

[Uncle Malice]

Notice you were the only person on this thread to go negative and start using insults? Why is that? Those that advocated using a weapon mounted light didn't insult those that didn't. You had a very good point about not wanting to point a weapon at a loved one. But then you added this bit at the end. Disappointing.

Took the words out of my mouth. Sheesh.

Don't want to run a weapon mounted light - don't run a weapon mounted light.

Finger off the trigger unless you intend to shoot. We all know(or should know) the 4 rules, but if you carry a gun, it's inevitably pointing at SOMEONE throughout the day - yourself or another person. Are shoulder holsters unsafe because they are always pointing behind you ad someones chest/head/etc...? The trigger is secure. The gun is safe. If you're riding the trigger while scanning your house with a weapon mounted light, that's another story.

[TunnelRat]

I'm Sorry, I have nothing positive to say about advocating violation of one (two, actually) of the Four Rules, particularly to New Shooters .... I think it is a dangerous idea, and can not be criticized harshly enough ....

But you can do it without being a you know what. There's no excuse for that.

So you hear a loud noise, and like you said you spin to shine a light on it. You're telling me that your reaction won't be to raise the hand with the pistol in it as well? You'll just keep that one at your side? You're both saying you can't ignore your natural instincts and saying you can in the same situation. I guess I can believe it, it involves training. So does keeping your finger off the trigger when going through the house.

Here's another thought, how about both? No one talks about this, and idk why. Have a light on the gun, and a light in your hand. You can use the hand light to clear rooms you know might have family in them (I strongly recommend working with your family ahead of time to make sure folks have a plan in the event of a break-in, such as a meeting place). But if you encounter a threat, you can drop the light and go to the weapon mounted light and have the benefit of two hands for control.

[peacefulgary]

I also think that a light mounted on a handgun is a really bad idea, for several reasons:

You end up pointing a loaded weapon at whatever or whoever you want to illuminate.
And this is 100% counter to the rule "Don't point a weapon at anything you don't want to destroy".

Yes, it does give away your position and makes you a much more obvious target.
As a teenager I was once trespassing with some friends in an industrial park (yes, it was wrong and I regret it) and we could easily track the security guards because every five minutes or so they would briefly turn on their flashlights to check a door or a window.
If we had been real thugs we could have easily shot the guards without the guards ever knowing we were even there.

And it affects the balance of your handgun too.
Most handguns tend to be a little muzzle heavy to start with (even with a loaded magazine inserted), and the attached light just makes it that much more nose heavy.

I agree that the argument can be made that you want to keep two hands on the pistol, but that is easily fixed by getting a light that you wear on your head or attached to your hat.
It might be begging for a head-shot, but if you simply must have a light...

[TunnelRat]

Yes, it does give away your position and makes you a much more obvious target.
As a teenager I was once trespassing with some friends in an industrial park (yes, it was wrong and I regret it) and we could easily track the security guards because every five minutes or so they would briefly turn on their flashlights to check a door or a window.
If we had been real thugs we could have easily shot the guards without the guards ever knowing we were even there.
I agree that the argument can be made that you want to keep two hands on the pistol, but that is easily fixed by getting a light that you wear on your head or attached to your hat.

I just want to be sure I am understanding you. Are you saying a weapon mounted light gives away your position, but a head mounted one wouldn't?

[lee n. field]

Relatively new to handguns and currently shopping for my first 9 mm. One question I have is rails or no rails. It seems to me having for home defense having a light on your pistol makes you an easy target if the intruder is armed. What is the logic behind the light? I know u see them on tv a lot but I must be missing something.

For a first gun, I wouldn't worry about rail or no rail. (Almost) everything current will have a rail. There are options for some guns without rails. See Crimson Trace's (http://www.crimsontrace.com/) Lightguard and Laserguard products.

What I would say is, don't worry about it at this point. Don't overthink it. Buy something and get some training in its use. If you decide you've made a mistake, sell that off and get something else.

[dayman]

I have a light on my HD gun. Of you actually use one you quickly realized that a 300 lumen light doesn't need to be pointed directly at a person to be able identify them.
Held at high ready or low ready they provide enough light to identify whether there's a target, and pointed directly at the eyes they are too blinding to make for a very great target.

[Garycw]

I think a small flashlight works just as well if not better. I don't have any on handguns, But if I did, I'd want a pressure pad for momentary activation and/ or switching modes. I do have a couple on a rifle & HD shotgun w/ pad which requires two hands.

[peacefulgary]

I just want to be sure I am understanding you. Are you saying a weapon mounted light gives away your position, but a head mounted one wouldn't?
Not at all.
Any light is going to give away your position.
This is why we had "light discipline" drilled in to us during Basic.
As I'm sure that you're aware, even the red lens lights can be seen from quite a ways.

Regardless of what light one chooses, keep them off unless absolutely necessary.

If one has places inside their home that are dark enough to need a flashlight then maybe they should add some night lights.

[TunnelRat]

Not at all.
Any light is going to give away your position.
This is why we had "light discipline" drilled in to us during Basic.
As I'm sure that you're aware, even the red lens lights can be seen from quite a ways.

Regardless of what light one chooses, keep them off unless absolutely necessary.

If one has places inside their home that are dark enough to need a flashlight then maybe they should add some night lights.

Fair enough. I would make the argument that going on a military patrol as opposed to securing your home is different.

My goal if there is a break in? Get the people in my home to a secure area and shelter there. I have insurance for stuff. Take the tv, I don't care (a new one would be nice really). Wait for the police and let them clear the rest of the house.

[SteelChickenShooter]

I did an experiment with a couple weapon mounted lights I have last night in the dark. I don't agree and I didn't see a need to "point the weapon at a target I didn't intend to destroy" The lens on my lights are quite broad. I can point the gun at 7 or 8 feet elevation, Clearly above any living person. There is suitable illumination to identify friend or foe. If foe then the gun can be lowered on target. If friend, it's readily seen, and the gun is not pointed at their body. Same at the backyard. This baby lights up half the backyard well enough to see the edge of the woods, the shed, back doors & windows. Easily enough illumination to see a friend or foe in the night. And again, if foe then the gun can be pointed more directly on target. If worried about pointing a loaded gun with an attached light at a non-threat, I'd suggest you research the various products and choose one that really spreads the light out and not one that may have such a tight narrow beam.

[BWM]

The light might make him run out! That way you will not have to shoot him. It has it up by having the light!

[SteelChickenShooter]

You know that BWM has it right. That light might just signal "you've been detected". Or it might mean, there's a home owner weapon "lighting you up"!
And the home owner might just shoot!
You know what would interest me? I'd like to hear what the criminals say about this. It's too bad that we are all most likely on the same side. I mean we all probably have carrying permits or at least own self defense handguns for the home, and we're not criminals, and we don't invade other people's homes in the night- so it would be nice if some of the bad guys did join this forum. Would be nice to hear what they have to say about such topics from their viewpoint. We should invite felons, prisoners, burglars to this forum to share with us their thoughts and ideas along with the same topics we discuss and argue about.

[chris in va]

I took a HD course a few years ago. The instructor opined a firearm mounted flashlight will have you pointing the gun at a perceived threat. I prefer to have a separate light so you're not pointing your HD gun at Sally coming up the stairs after getting a drink of water at 3am.

If I were to go the weapon light route I would want one with a broader beam.

[Garycw]

If I were to go the weapon light route I would want one with a broader beam.

I'm just the opposite. The ones I have will light the whole Room up somewhat, but its a narrow beam. It's more concentrated and will go between high & strobe through the pressure pad. At 800 lumen. Its painful & blinding
I wouldn't necessarily want someone who broke in my house to get away. I'd want them arrested.

[Hawg]

If someone breaks into your house its dark. You know the layout, they don't. They need the light, you don't. Anyone that belongs in your house knows the layout. They don't need a light to go anywhere in it without bumping into things. An intruder will bump into things or try to move slowly by feel. I don't own a rail mounted light. I don't/won't own a gun with a rail period.

[seeker_two]

If someone breaks into your house its dark. You know the layout, they don't. They need the light, you don't. Anyone that belongs in your house knows the layout. They don't need a light to go anywhere in it without bumping into things. An intruder will bump into things or try to move slowly by feel. I don't own a rail mounted light. I don't/won't own a gun with a rail period.


Tell that to the toys that the kids leave out at night...

[James K]

I have had, as a LEO, to check businesses at night. I guarantee you that I don't want to go in with a light attached to the gun I am carrying and that will be right in front of my face if I have to aim it. No light is bright enough to blind someone who is off to the side and the idea that I can find an intruder in the dark and likely behind cover before he can see that stupid light is really wishful thinking. He would have to be blind to begin with.

I always held the light in my left hand, well forward and above my body, when I used a light at all. If I knew where the light switch was (and I made it my business to know), I simply turned it on. I was expecting the light, an intruder would not be, and I could move away from the switch as soon as I flipped it. Fortunately, no armed intruder was ever waiting for me.

Jim

[peacefulgary]

Ask yourself this:

If you were in a dark place, for whatever reason, would you be cool with someone pointing a weapon mounted light your direction?

[Garycw]

I used to carry a light at work in late 70's early 80's along with my trusty model 10. We were in the habit when clearing a buildings at night to hold the light far out to the left away from you.
Once clearing a Macy's at night ( one of my first times)with other Leo 's at night I had a big surprise. It was already a eerie feeling walking among all the manakins. All a burglar would have had to do was be nicely dressed and strike a pose. We carried the big D cell mag lights also a weapon in itself. I opened a door with mag light & gun in hand,to a dressing room staring straight into a full length tri view mirror. Almost shot the mirror out & crapped myself at the same time.
I still use that technique out to the side and the tiny sure fire light Will blind intruder. It's like a camera flash. .

[Hal]

No lights here..
Other than the ambient light &/or lights we normally leave on in the house anyhow.

I figure why bother?
I'm not going anywhere.

My answer to that bump in the night is to hunker down, gun and cell phone in hand and announce at the top of my lungs that the police are on their way.

[peacefulgary]

My answer to that bump in the night is to hunker down, gun and cell phone in hand and announce at the top of my lungs that the police are on their way.
You don't call the cops for every unusual noise , do you?

[Hal]

Of course not.
Neither did I slither off into the dark, gun in hand, in chase of that odd sound that happened to come about.

There is such a thing as using one's brain.
I know it's out of fashion these days for the most part, but, It's an old habit of mine that dies hard.

[shortwave]

Don't care for lights on my firearm either. If I would happen to use a light it would be in the fashion James K stated. I'm right handed so light would be in left hand held in front of my body as to not light me up and away from my body if possible.
But like Hal, really prefer no light inside my home as I would hope I know the inside of my home in the dark/ambient light better then an intruder.

[g.willikers]

Awhile back I was listening to a podcast with a trainer for a big city police force.
He said a good way to illuminate a room was to just turn on the lights.
If there was an armed intruder, the target identification would be about as good as it gets.
And, with the whole place lit up, you wouldn't be giving away your position as much as with a flashlight.
The intruder wouldn't necessarily know exactly where you were, right off.
Made sense to me.

[HMC8404]

The sound of racking a shell into a pump shotgun in a quiet house, then yelling "This one's for you!" might very well end the entire ordeal in short order, without a light or shots fired.:eek:

[MtnMike1]

Sounds like most other things in life different folks see it different ways. I think I'll hold off on the light until I become better skilled and can make a better personal decision. Thanks for the feedback.

[peacefulgary]

You don't call the cops for every unusual noise , do you?


Of course not.
Neither did I slither off into the dark, gun in hand, in chase of that odd sound that happened to come about.

There is such a thing as using one's brain.
I know it's out of fashion these days for the most part, but, It's an old habit of mine that dies hard.
Okay....you don't call the cops for every unusual noise you hear, and you don't investigate what caused that noise....do you just go back to sleep and hope it's nothing?

I can't do that.
If I hear an unusual noise, I can't just ignore it and go back to sleep.
At the bare minimum I have to get up and check all of the windows and doors to make sure they are still locked and unbroken and still have the alarms on.
And yeah, I do so with pistol in hand, in the semi-darkness of my home (which is never really completely dark due to outside lighting coming in through the windows and from night lighting inside my home).

[Hal]

Okay....you don't call the cops for every unusual noise you hear, and you don't investigate what caused that noise....do you just go back to sleep and hope it's nothing?
Usually I do go back to sleep.

I'm far too old, too fat and too out of shape to go chasing after noises in the night.

If the two dogs don't have a problem with a noise in the night, I don't try to second guess them.

In all honesty, in my 61 years on this planet there's only been two - exactly two - times that some unexpected noise in the night was odd enough to send me in search of it's source.

I don't put that down to "luck" either.
I put that down to planning.
My parents made it a point to always live in a "nice area".
Our house may not have been the best in that area, but, better a lesser house in a nice area than more house in a bad area....
I just continued on that same path when I grew up and moved out.

My suggestion would be, if you're pestered with too many odd noises in the night, find a safer place to live.
Home defense, like real estate in general is all about, location, location, location.

[TunnelRat]

I can't do that.
If I hear an unusual noise, I can't just ignore it and go back to sleep.
At the bare minimum I have to get up and check all of the windows and doors to make sure they are still locked and unbroken and still have the alarms on.
And yeah, I do so with pistol in hand, in the semi-darkness of my home (which is never really completely dark due to outside lighting coming in through the windows and from night lighting inside my home).

What's your definition of an unusual noise? And how often are you getting these unusual noises? I've had two times in the entire past year that I retrieved a weapon. One was noises in my basement (turned out to be my dad borrowing something) and the other was glass breaking (neighbor's house was on fire and the firefighters were breaking the windows). Other than that I have a border collie who literally sleeps with one eye open so I don't have to.