Interesting, S&W cuts .357sig from the M&P line.....

[ClydeFrog]

I was looking over the main S&W website and saw they no longer list the M&P pistols in the .357sig caliber.
I think they still manufacture or service .357sig sidearms for US law enforcement agencies or contracts but no longer market the M&Ps to the buying public.

I prefer the .357sig caliber over the .40S&W, .45acp or 9x19mm but it seems to slowly drifting away from the US market(s).

After-market .357sig barrels from Storm-Lake & other vendors are still out there so it's not a huge loss. :rolleyes:

[Gats Italian]

.357 SIG is yet another answer to a question no one really asked.

[DubC-Hicks]

.357 Sig was, in fact, an answer to a question asked all the time. "How do we get a more powerful 9mm round without loading them to an extreme pressure and battering guns not designed for that pressure?" Tada, .357 Sig. It's stronger than 9mm +p+, and doesn't punish the guns since they're actually made to take the abuse.

While I don't like the M&P as much as other guns, it is a shame that one less manufacturer is putting out a gun in this great round. It needs to be more popular.

[Noreaster]

North Carolina State Police had the M&P in 357 Sig for two years before dumping them due to excessive parts breakage. Miami Dade and NYPD have used 9mm Glocks with +P for years without excessive wear. Most 9mm firearms are designed to handle 9mm Nato which is close to +P pressure. It's also tough on the shooter, having 357 sig duty guns for over ten years I learned to use double ear protection as the decibel reading, (in our 3.9 inch barrel guns,) was somewhere around 165 db.

[Coach Z]

While risking starting a classic caliber war I don't personally think the the minor increase in ballistics of 357 sig is great enough to justify the price and limited availability of guns and mags that is associated with a boutique cartridge.

While a slightly different focus I would pose the .45 GAP as another boutique chambering that is headed downhill

[Gats Italian]

Only a few LEO departments were asking that question, hence the "no one was really asking."

A caliber without a broad purchasing base never climbs above niche status. Such cartridges live on in a state where they exist, but only a small handful of shooters keep it alive.

The tale of the .357 SIG and .45 GAP were foretold by the smashing success of the .41 Magnum.

[Roughedge]

NCHP had Sig 357sigs and never had a problem. Then they went to the M&P and had problems. Thats like going from a F150 to a Yugo. I love S&W revolvers but thier autos lack something for me.

[DubC-Hicks]

I didn't mean just the departments are asking the question, civilians are too. Everyone wants a stronger 9mm, so they get +p or +p+, and neither are as strong as .357 Sig.

I haven't heard about the parts breakage problems, that is interesting. What I like about the round is it seems the best of all worlds to me. Its a fast round. And while the recoil is snappier than a 9, it feels quicker than a .40, so it seems to me to get back on target quicker than a .40.

[Fishbed77]

My brother-in-law is a conservation officer in Pennsylvania, and his issued pistols are a Glock 31 and 33 (along with an 870 Police Magnum).

I've fired both his .357Sig Glocks before and I was unimpressed. While I can somewhat understand why they carry them (may need to shoot through brush or at ornery wildlife), but for most everyone else, they seem a bit pointless. The bullet of a 9mm with most of the snappiness of a .40S&W? No thanks.

[Deaf Smith]

It is obvious the M&P as designed as a 9mm and as a afterthought rechambered for .40 S&W and .357 Sig.

Not all that shocking cause lots of other companies did just that to.

Even Glock found the .357 Sig and .40 S&W accelerated wear on the guns. But Glocks were over engineered and thus the it takes 40K rounds of full powered .357 Sig to show such wear.

Apparently the M&P isn't.

Deaf

[chris in va]

I know two guys with a G33. Neither can shoot them worth a darn in competition. For the heck of it I let them try one of my compact 9mm and suddenly they started hitting the target.

I personally don't care for such a fire breather out of a subcompact, makes it pretty tough to hit anything past 20'.

[Gats Italian]

I didn't mean just the departments are asking the question, civilians are too. Everyone wants a stronger 9mm, so they get +p or +p+, and neither are as strong as .357 Sig.

Not everyone "wants a stronger 9mm." Were that remotely true, the .357 SIG or even the .40S&W would be more popular than the 9mmP, which would be rapidly losing its backers/adopters. After all, aren't both, along with the 45 GAP, "solutions" to getting "more" out of a 9mmP sized sidearm?

It seems that CAD has solved the 9mmP's terminal effectiveness problem more effectively than some more smokeless powder behind it has. Better bullet design has largely mitigated the need for marginally higher speeds to aid JHP expansion.

[TunnelRat]

Everyone wants a stronger 9mm, so they get +p or +p+, and neither are as strong as .357 Sig.

I can train with standard pressure 9mm and shoot +p for defense loads. Point of impact is the same in my guns, and the recoil difference is small. I love shooting +P Gold Dots, they're like laser beams they shoot so nicely. So I can have a gun that gets very close to the performance of 357 SIG for much cheaper ammo costs and greater availability, it's really a no brainer.

It is obvious the M&P as designed as a 9mm and as a afterthought rechambered for .40 S&W and .357 Sig.

Not all that shocking cause lots of other companies did just that to.

Even Glock found the .357 Sig and .40 S&W accelerated wear on the guns. But Glocks were over engineered and thus the it takes 40K rounds of full powered .357 Sig to show such wear.

Apparently the M&P isn't.

Deaf

That's actually sort of hilarious. The M&P, from everything I have read, was designed around the 40SW. It certainly wasn't an afterthought for S&W to chamber their pistols in a cartridge they helped develop lol.

Glock on the other hand did design his pistols around 9mm and then rechamber them for 40 SW and 357 SIG.

The idea that Glocks are overengineered and thus handle the punishment better is suspect at best. The M&P has a steel chassis whereas the Glock doesn't. As for parts breaking, quite simply put there are more parts in an M&P than a Glock. You could count that as a negative, but to me it doesn't mean the Glock is able to "handle" the 40SW and the M&P isn't. I've also never shot a pistol that I found more uncomfortable in the 40SW than a Glock. SIGs, HKs, M&Ps, all were more comfortable in that cartridge than Glock.

[Walt Sherrill]

The idea that Glocks are overengineered and thus handle the punishment better is suspect at best. The M&P has a steel chassis whereas the Glock doesn't. As for parts breaking, quite simply put there are more parts in an M&P than a Glock. You could count that as a negative, but to me it doesn't mean the Glock is able to "handle" the 40SW and the M&P isn't. I've also never shot a pistol that I found more uncomfortable in the 40SW than a Glock. SIGs, HKs, M&Ps, all were more comfortable in that cartridge than Glock.

A family member is a NC State Trooper and has kept me informed of the ongoing issues they've had with the M&Ps in .357 SIG. S&W spent a lot of time working with the Highway Patrol trying to get the problems resolved, but apparently were NOT able to do so.

While they looked at alternatives, the NCHP apparently checked with a lot of other agencies, and it appears that some of the LE agencies using .357 SIG Glocks were having similar problems with those guns, too. With that in mind, the NCHP is switching to SIGs (226s?) in .357SIG. They want that round as it apparently does a better job penetrating windshields than most other rounds.

[totalloser]

Hm. First, Glock changed the locking lug angle to handle blowback of .40 and .357 sig which are *identical* in locking lug geometry. Any test of .40 applies directly to .357 sig in Glocks and last I checked droves of law enforcement agencies are carrying .40 cal Glocks.

The only appreciable wear I have seen take place on Glocks other than small parts like slide releases and the occasional recoil spring, has been the dings on the guide rail grooves on the slide right at the point the locking lugs disengage.

I'm not too worried about .357 sig going away. Not with things like 5.7x28 and 7.62x25. But .40 brass can be converted. I have both barrels for my glocks, and in Bear land .357sig in fmj is my go-to. There are not many pistol cartridges suited to large animal defense. I'd argue that .357 sig is inadequate. But few other options compete.

[armsmaster270]

I love my 357Sig but then it's a Sig 226.

[Nanuk]

I have a Glock 31C and it is one of my favorites. It has no perceptible recoil. I can easily ding the gong every time @100 yards. They use the same mags as 40 and it easily outclasses 9mm, 40S&W and 45 ACP.

[Nanuk]

The idea that Glocks are overengineered and thus handle the punishment better is suspect at best. The M&P has a steel chassis whereas the Glock doesn't. As for parts breaking, quite simply put there are more parts in an M&P than a Glock. You could count that as a negative, but to me it doesn't mean the Glock is able to "handle" the 40SW and the M&P isn't. I've also never shot a pistol that I found more uncomfortable in the 40SW than a Glock. SIGs, HKs, M&Ps, all were more comfortable in that cartridge than Glock.

The Glock is on the edge of being able to handle the 40. The Border Patrol looked at them and Glock said they would not warranty them using the 155 grain jhp @1250 fps as it was too much for the Glock.

[5whiskey]

It's stronger than 9mm +p+, and doesn't punish the guns since they're actually made to take the abuse.

First off, .357sig does have a ballistics advantage over 9mm+p+, but it isn't anything earth shattering. Plus, .357sig has an extreme cost premium over 9mm. While 9mm+p+ is rather expensive (if you can buy it without reloading it yourself), you can always practice with plain jane cheap ole' 9mm rounds. You don't have that option with the .357sig.

As to the "guns being made to take the abuse," as has been mentioned the NCSHP has gone away from the S&W M&P because of service issues. S&W recommended that they replace springs and magazine catches at around 2 or 3k round. That means that one new gun would need a service job immediately after getting trooper out of the academy. They do believe in the .357sig round, though. I spoke with a 1st Sgt out of Raleigh a couple of months ago and he lambasted the M&P but he was very happy with the round. Hopefully the Sig works out for them. I still personally think that .40S&W, or even a 9mm shooting +p for SD, makes more sense.

[AK103K]

I was quite enamored with the 357SIG, and had a half dozen pistols in the caliber. All but one of them were SIG's. The odd one out was a Glock 31, and it was the only one of the lot that showed continued wear, specifically, the underside of the slide. The SIG's just ate it up without issue.

I eventually came to realize that 357SIG and +P+ 9mm are basically the same thing (both are 40000psi rounds), when the same weight bullets are used. Once things went south when Obama first got elected, and the prices of both ammo and components took off, that just cinched it. I sold off all the 357SIGs, and went back to 9mm, and never looked back.

My Glock didnt have 40000 rounds of 357SIG through it, more like 5-6000, and it was beating itself to death. The underside of the slide was heavily peeing, and never showed any sign of letting up, until I got a Lone Wolf 40-9 barrel for it. Once I got that barrel, 9mm was what I shot out of it. It had more 9mm out of it than it did 357SIG. Interestingly enough, my one Glock 17, just past the 60000 round mark last month, and has more +P+ 9mm through it than the 31 had 357SIG through it, and it only shows very light finish wear in the same spot the 31 was peening.

[uradaisyifudo]

This discussions seems more to me like the fire arms not keeping up with advances in ammunition, it is not as though semi auto pistols cannot be designed to handle the 357 sig round. I find it innovative as a means to enhance velocity in a classic caliber. This could be the future, like the 5.7 where civilians are not allowed to purchase full strength rounds...

[ClydeFrog]

I've heard the complaints before about muzzle blast, noise, recoil, etc with the .357sig pistol caliber.
To me, it has merit but in most categories the .40S&W or a .45acp could do the same thing.
State Troopers & Highway Patrols could argue they need the .357sig for vehicle stops but most armed citizens/CC license holders can use a .40, 9mm +P, .44spl or .45acp.
The .357sig caliber was started to replicate a snub .357magnum 125gr JHP in a snub barrel.
I was a big supporter of the .357sig for years but if it's not available or costs more than using a 9x19mm, .40S&W or .45acp +P load, then it's not a huge loss.

As for the PA Game Commission, Id heard they used the Beretta 96D .40S&W in the 1990s & early 2000s, then converted like other state level LE agencies to the Glock .45GAP series. A PA State Trooper I met in 11/2013 informed me they were moving to the Glock 21 .45acp duty pistol. I'm not aware of any PA game or WCOs(wildlife conservation officers) using the .357sig.

[fastbolt]

S&W M&P's production understandably shifted to the calibers for which there are heavy demand. Apparently, that doesn't include .357SIG. Yes, they'll still make them for LE agency orders.

FWIW, the M&P was actually designed around the .40 S&W, which may be why they had to do some further engineering in order to resolve accuracy issues with the M&P 9's.

According to the instructors and reps in various armorer classes I've attended, put on by different gun companies, .357SIG is harder on guns than 9, .40 & .45 ACP.

One guy from SIG put it simply, stating that it's not as simple as being the chamber pressure that's tough on the guns, but the rate at which the chamber pressure spikes, that makes for the difference between .40 & .357 in the guns.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see some decrease in the number of agencies using .357 in coming months & years.

[ClydeFrog]

I think Springfield Armory(S-A) was the first major gun maker to cut any .357sig models.
Even SIG Sauer seems to be backing away from the caliber. They started it in the mid 1990s, now they no longer market all their pistols in it.
I've seen & read a few online posts saying LE agencies that had .357sig duty pistols switched to the .40S&W to save $$$. They weren't unhappy with the .357sig it was a budget/training issue.

Clyde

[AK103K]

For the longest while, 357SIG and .40 cost exactly the same, when bought by the case. I used to by both that way, mostly from Ammoman, and I was paying $250/1000 for both. It wasnt until that first panic in '08 that they started to separate price wise.

Getting out of both right around then, turned out to be quite profitable. :)

[Guv]

I think it's a real shame that it never really caught on. I have to confess though between the price of the ammo and the price of my boys college I've stayed away from it. I would buy a 357 Sig barrel for my PX4 Storm 40 if I could find one though.

[TenRing]

S&W is simply trying to remain financially viable by streamlining their product offering. As the biggest domestic threat to S&W, Ruger has been steadily dropping lower volume guns as they introduce new models.

S&W has a huge catalog of offerings and their custom shop will build anything a customer is willing to buy. Meanwhile, Ruger sticks to cranking out guns that sell in higher volume with minimal custom and specialty work.

I have been following both company's stocks for several years. Ruger's stock (RGR) has steadily increased in value with tremendous momentum over the last few years while paying a nice dividend. During that same period, S&W stock (SWHC), has stagnated while barely keeping pace with inflation and it pays no dividend. Over the last five years, RGR has grown at about triple the rate of SWHC.

No doubt the executives at SWHC are paying attention and getting worried.

[ATW525]

The M&P in 357 Sig was discontinued for civilian sales back in 2011. I believe HK has also ceased making new firearms and barrels in that caliber. This leaves pretty much Sig and Glock as the only major manufacturers offering factory weapons in the caliber, AFAIK.

With the recent dropping of the caliber by the Texas DPS, I think it's definitely on it's way out. At the end of the day, it just doesn't offer a significant performance advantage over the cheaper and move available options.

[IdahoG36]

I know two guys with a G33. Neither can shoot them worth a darn in competition.

That's a weird choice of gun for competition shooting.....:confused:

[ClydeFrog]

I was going to bring up the Texas DPS using the .357sig in P226Rs/P229Rs for many years. To my knowledge, the DE State Police was the first US law enforcement agency to carry the SIGs in .357sig caliber.
I wouldn't be surprised if the US Secret Service converts to the P229R DAK in .40S&W like so many other DHS agencies(US Coast Guard, CBP, etc).
Another choice would be a pistol version of the FNH 5.7mm since they issue the P90 SMGs to special agents. I'm not sure if the Uniformed Div gets the 5.7mm P90s too.
I watched a great TV doc which explained that the US Secret Service went to the 5.7mm because of the low recoil, low muzzle blast & ability to punch thru most common barriers/body armor.

I think SIG's new MPX line can be purchased in .357sig but if I were a procurement officer, Id push for the .40S&W or 9mm(9x19mm).

[Noreaster]

A 357 sig carbine would be a lethal round. When we first got our P229s in 357 Sig our issued duty vest failed to stop them, even though it was DOJ rated for 357 sig. A carbine with a bullet strong enough to handle the extra velocity would be very effective on everything up to deer.

[herdman]

I don't understand all these police agencies(outside the feds) going with oddball rounds. Have they ever thought about the doomsday scenario if the lights go out and the water is shut off and we go through long periods of civil unrest, economic collapse, etc? Where are the going to find those rounds when they run out or can't get to them?

Every military unit around that will likely take over will be more than likely outfitted in 9mm. I would guess in the civilian world the 9mm is probably the most popular round. There is not going to be a Nationa Guard truck or 82nd Airborne truck coming with .357 sig. Not going to be spare parts for .357 sigs.

And, if the USA finds itself in a prolonged major world war the ammo producers are not going to be making .357 sig.

Don't mean to sound like a dooms day guy, but you never know. They are not getting the best bang for their buck, long term. The military has basically had two platforms for 100 years(45acp and then 9mm). The local police agencies seem to change platforms every few years.

[ClydeFrog]

To answer part of post #32's ?s, Id suggest researching the 1986 FBI/Platt-Matix shooting event.
US law enforcement & the FBI went thru major changes & reviews after the incident in south Florida. It's been discussed on gun & tactics forums at length, but in short; 2 well armed robbers(both veterans, one a Ranger the other a MP) decided to shoot it out with a group of FBI special agents who had them under a "rolling surveillance".
A few agents were murdered & some of the brave agents were seriously wounded in the shoot-out.
Both violent subjects were killed on scene.
The pistol calibers & bullets(115gr Silver-Tips) were hotly debated after the event for years.
The Firearms Training Unit of the FBI T&Eed 10mm sidearms & the .40S&W became more popular in the early 1990s.
US police agencies have a obligation to protect the public & to keep their sworn personnel safe. Lawsuits, union greviences, etc re; officer safety are common.

[Walt Sherrill]

I don't understand all these police agencies(outside the feds) going with oddball rounds. Have they ever thought about the doomsday scenario if the lights go out and the water is shut off and we go through long periods of civil unrest, economic collapse, etc? Where are the going to find those rounds when they run out or can't get to them?

If we get to the point that the lights go out and water is shut off, the caliber used in LEO weapons will be a trivial concern... (If THAT particular mix of Stuff Hits The Fan, there will an even greater concern about other things: medical care, medical supplies [especially prescription drugs], clean water, food, batteries for their flashlights and radios, finding out who's in charge, etc. Little things like mediums of exchange will be a big problem, as nobody can use a card, and paper money might be relatively worthless.

Law Enforcement and National Guard concerns are rightly more short-term in nature: dealing with the day-to-day problems following a tornado, hurricane, major civil unrest, etc. The Katrina situation was pretty bad, but I don't think running out of ammo was the biggest problem LEOs faced.

The End Of The World As We Know It seems to be the primary concern of a relatively small number of individuals and groups -- not LEO agencies; there seems to be some "reality" TV shows about those folks. Many of the TEOTWAWNI folks were also all fired up at the turn of the century when everyone thought our computer-based world would come crashing down. A few of those folks that I knew locally had their garages and storage building crammed full of military meals, water, etc. Turns out they didn't need them. (I've often wondered if those folks ate all of those meals, or just tossed them -- as a lot of the meals are long past their expiration date, by now. (The said, their shelf life may be longer -- they just taste progressively worse the longer they set.)

[ClydeFrog]

The World Wide Web is filled with "back porch" experts & people who's "buddy on the force" :rolleyes: told them what works best.
real armed professionals & sworn LE officers do research or T&Es to see what works best for them.

I've been on other forums(not TFL) in the 2000s, where members get steamed over every little point.
I for one, don't see the .45acp and/or the 9mm(9mmNATO) as the Alpha & Omega of all US calibers but over time, more shooters/gun owners may drift to one or the other.
The .40S&W might continue to gain support too. It's fast, powerful & available in most sections of the USA. You can load it in sub-compacts, mid size or full size pistols too. ;)

[Deaf Smith]

I know two guys with a G33. Neither can shoot them worth a darn in competition.

Just 2 guys? I know two guys that can't shoot worth a dang in competition with any gun, so does that make any gun worthless?

I will say a Glock 33 is a streetgun and using it in competition (I presume IDPA) shows they want to learn to use their carry guns well. Good for them. since most competition shooters use game guns they wound not think of packing on the street daily.

Deaf

[Walt Sherrill]

I know two guys with a G33. Neither can shoot them worth a darn in competition.

I think that tells us more about the shooters than the guns or the caliber. Generally, the good or great shooters do well with crap guns, and it doesn't matter what crappy shooters use.

[tipoc]

I for one, don't see the .45acp and/or the 9mm(9mmNATO) as the Alpha & Omega of all US calibers but over time, more shooters/gun owners may drift to one or the other.
The .40S&W might continue to gain support too. It's fast, powerful & available in most sections of the USA. You can load it in sub-compacts, mid size or full size pistols too.

Clyde, it's the case today that the 40SW is the most widely used round in U.S. law enforcement. It has been for maybe a decade now or a bit more. It eclipsed the 9mm some time ago in law enforcement use. From it's inception it took off like rocket. Though in recent years the 9mm has seen a small resurgence.

tipoc

[James K]

There are only two reasons a company discontinues a product -

1) It isn't selling and/or

2) It has problems that make it more trouble than it is worth.

A product with problems that still sells well will be fixed, so really there is only number 1.

Jim

[ClydeFrog]

I agree with the last post; #39.
I think it was a marketing flaw & a overall lack of support by the shooting sports industry.
To many in the early/mid 1990s, the .357sig was pitched like a .40S&W round but better. :rolleyes:
This led to the countless; "why can't I just shoot or carry the .40S&W?" Inquires.
I think a few FFL holders or gun shop staff may have thought it was a .357magnum for pistols too. :rolleyes:
In short, the gun buying US public isn't going to flock to a handgun round like the .357sig if few people(or sworn LE agencies) carry it.

That effects sales/$$$. Any major gun firm isn't going to put out calibers or models that don't sell very well. Glock USA seems to be the rare exception.
They still offer .357sig, .45GAP & the 10mm. :eek:
I'd be curious to know how much demand Glock sales reps really see in these calibers overall.

Clyde

[James K]

The .357 Sig was definitely sold as equivalent to the .357 Magnum, and I have little doubt that was the intent of its developers. Actually, it is a pretty good cartridge, with no feed problems and more than enough power for any reasonable purpose.

Jim

[RC20]

357 Sig is sold as an equivalent to the 357 magnum in 124 gr size.

It does not match the 357 in higher weight bullets.

Not that is not good enough, it is. I also like it. I hope to get one.

It had a focused mission and has achieved it. How much demand for that is obviously not high.

I.e. you hope to seell to LEO and the public thinks its what they need and go for it (40 S&W). Not true in this case. Public is not generally interested in penetration.

I don;t think it will be a 45 GAP, more like 41 magnum. Still hanging in there. The only reason glock has it is to keep Sig from getting all the market there is for it. glock hates to see anyone get something they don't have

[dpadams6]

I was quite enamored with the 357SIG, and had a half dozen pistols in the caliber. All but one of them were SIG's. The odd one out was a Glock 31, and it was the only one of the lot that showed continued wear, specifically, the underside of the slide. The SIG's just ate it up without issue.

I eventually came to realize that 357SIG and +P+ 9mm are basically the same thing (both are 40000psi rounds), when the same weight bullets are used. Once things went south when Obama first got elected, and the prices of both ammo and components took off, that just cinched it. I sold off all the 357SIGs, and went back to 9mm, and never looked back.

My Glock didnt have 40000 rounds of 357SIG through it, more like 5-6000, and it was beating itself to death. The underside of the slide was heavily peeing, and never showed any sign of letting up, until I got a Lone Wolf 40-9 barrel for it. Once I got that barrel, 9mm was what I shot out of it. It had more 9mm out of it than it did 357SIG. Interestingly enough, my one Glock 17, just past the 60000 round mark last month, and has more +P+ 9mm through it than the 31 had 357SIG through it, and it only shows very light finish wear in the same spot the 31 was peening.
Since they are both 40,000 psi, wouldn't 9mm +p+ beat the new the gun up just as much as 357 sig?

[dpadams6]

I was going to bring up the Texas DPS using the .357sig in P226Rs/P229Rs for many years. To my knowledge, the DE State Police was the first US law enforcement agency to carry the SIGs in .357sig caliber.
I wouldn't be surprised if the US Secret Service converts to the P229R DAK in .40S&W like so many other DHS agencies(US Coast Guard, CBP, etc).
Another choice would be a pistol version of the FNH 5.7mm since they issue the P90 SMGs to special agents. I'm not sure if the Uniformed Div gets the 5.7mm P90s too.
I watched a great TV doc which explained that the US Secret Service went to the 5.7mm because of the low recoil, low muzzle blast & ability to punch thru most common barriers/body armor.

I think SIG's new MPX line can be purchased in .357sig but if I were a procurement officer, Id push for the .40S&W or 9mm(9x19mm).

I doubt ss will be switching from 357sig any time soon. They stated that it is the most effective handgun caliber they have ever tested.

[tipoc]

I doubt ss will be switching from 357sig any time soon. They stated that it is the most effective handgun caliber they have ever tested.

Where did they say this?

tipoc

[AK103K]

Since they are both 40,000 psi, wouldn't 9mm +p+ beat the new the gun up just as much as 357 sig?
I always thought that myself, but the 17's dont seem to have the issue the 357's and .40's do for some reason.

Perhaps there is something in what someone else posted, about when/where the pressure spike occurs between the different rounds.

[Noreaster]

(Since they are both 40,000 psi, wouldn't 9mm +p+ beat the new the gun up just as much as 357 sig?)

The difference is the guy with the 9mm will probably shoot many more standard 9mm rounds than +P+, whereas the guy with a 357 sig will always shoot 357 sig.

[zeke4351]

Most people have never shot true .357 Sig ammo or do they know that it was designed as a 125 grain at 1450 fps. There are only a couple of places that sell full power .357 Sig ammo and there is a big difference between it and a 9 mm +p+ including bullet design. That is why the Secret Service does not switch to anything else. Recoil and expense keep it from being popular with LE. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/17/adygadad.jpg
This will chrono over 1500 fps. It would not be a good thing for LE if the streets were full of this.

[AK103K]

Recoil really isnt any different than 9mm +P+, even with the hotter loadings in the 357SIG, assuming the same weight bullets.

Ive shot a fair amount of Double Tap 125 grain 357SIG out of both my SIG's and my Glock 31, and I never found it to be any more difficult to shoot than +P+ 9mm.

In fact, I couldnt tell the difference at all, when I shot both out of my 31. If someone handed you the gun, and you didnt know what barrel was in it, you wouldnt know, other than maybe the bark of the 357SIG.

From what I remember, most of the "major" ammo makers were loading the 357SIG to around 1350fps. It was Double Tap and one or two others, that had loadings a little hotter.

One thing is for sure, 357SIG did get quite pricey, even if you do reload. For awhile there, it wasnt worth bother with reloading wise, as factory was only about a dollar more a box. That sure changed back when Obama first got in. Unfortunately, components for it jumped up as well, and it really wasnt a bargain to load for either.