"(New PA $25 bounty) on coyotes

[Gunplummer]

Sounds like a rumor to me. If the PA Game Commission has to pay it, I don't see it happening. I remember the fox and great horned owl bounty. Did not work out too well. Anybody have proof of this bounty?

[Brian Pfleuger]

It's not a rumor.

http://articles.mcall.com/2013-12-12/news/mc-pa-coyote-bounty-20131212_1_coyote-bounty-bounty-program-hunters

[Jay24bal]

I hope this passes.

I live near Cleveland, a little under 2 hours from the PA border. I will gladly make a couple trips over the state line and have at 'em.

[Rob96]

It was passed and is funded. We seem to be having a population increase at a quick rate. Heck, I live in the burbs of Allentown. The Monday before Thanksgiving I had a yote in my backyard that was of good size. I would put him at at least 60#'s.

[ligonierbill]

PA has been encouraging coyote hunting for a long time. Can't get general Sunday hunting through, but you can hunt 'yotes on Sunday. This is not the old "eliminate the predators" thing; coyotes probably have more effect on native foxes than deer. It's essentially a non-native species. Personally, I don't need the encouragement, but it might get some more young people in the field.

[Hunter Customs]

I sure wish Missouri would pay a $25 bounty on coyotes, I would even be happy with $15.

I wish I lived closer to PA, I would gladly be there hunting coyotes.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

[sfwusc]

If they want to really have them killed off, then a bounty greater than $25 is needed. Right?

I mean if the bounty was $100, then people would be taking vacation days to kill the suckers off.

[Deerhunter]

I think I need to head back to PA and try to find me some spots to hunt them. 28,000 is what they say were killed last year? The money would be nice but just hunting them (PA has much bigger yotes then we do in VA) and the numbers would be fun

[ripnbst]

I agree a higher bounty would draw more people but $25 is plenty.

Too bad deer season is over. Sit on a gut pile overnight and you're bound to get a couple if you know what you're doing.

Go to the store and ask if they have any leftover meat they are about to throw away and tell them you'll buy it for cheap. Sit by that and wait for them to come in. Sit cross wind from it a hundred yards or so.

[g.willikers]

Did anyone see the story about hunting the XL-sized coyotes, in the Jan issue of American Hunter magazine?
You might want to get a bigger gun.

[Rob96]

The $25 bounty is plenty, believe me. The sales of predator calls is evident by the emptying shelves at Cabela's and Dick's Sporting Goods.

[Gunplummer]

I am in that newspaper area. The PGC is authorized to set it up, but will they? We have a weird Game Commission set up and a lot of out of staters don't understand it. The PA Game Commission and the state government are a separate thing, but they can't really work independently of each other. It is weird. Right now it is a free for all on coyotes in PA. What is the incentive for the PGC to go along with it? I smell a coyote tag coming up.

[Grundy53]

PA has been encouraging coyote hunting for a long time. Can't get general Sunday hunting through, but you can hunt 'yotes on Sunday. This is not the old "eliminate the predators" thing; coyotes probably have more effect on native foxes than deer. It's essentially a non-native species. Personally, I don't need the encouragement, but it might get some more young people in the field.

They kill a lot of deer. Especially fawns right after they drop. In most places that have high coyote populations they are the the biggest killer of deer. At least as far as natural predators go.

["JJ"]

There is always a good and bad to everything!
The good part about a bounty is the reduction in the population of the nuisance species an of course the cash in the pocket of the successful hunter.
The bad part of a bounty is that people who know nothing about predator hunting buying a call and loading up the boys and beer and driving from field to field educating the local coyotes!
Good luck to you local guys. If you get stumped by stubborn coyotes, try some different sounds the average Joe might not!
I hope you guys stack em up!

[Rob96]

Another possible negative is in something I have read stated that increased hunting pressure leads to increased breeding. Has anyone else heard that, or confirm that it happens?

[Brian Pfleuger]

Yeah... I've heard that about every animal people want to eliminate and don't succeed. It really makes no sense for two reasons.

1)What could possibly be the mechanism by which the species would broadly recognize that it's being hunted and unanimously decide to reproduce more? Wouldn't it be advantageous for the species to reproduce as much as possible under MOST circumstances? Specifically with coyotes, we're talking dogs here. How much "more" can a dog reproduce? They aren't mice.

2)How does the math work out that you can kill enough of them to trigger this supposed increase in mating but few enough of them that the increased mating results in more than there were before you started killing them? That seems unlikely in the extreme.

[Rob96]

Not sure myself what would trigger the breeding response. The pack getting smaller? I don't know...

[Cowboy_mo]

something I have read stated that increased hunting pressure leads to increased breeding. Has anyone else heard that, or confirm that it happens?

I don't know who may have written what you read, but I am guessing they don't have an Animal Science degree and haven't studied animal reproduction.

In mammals (other than humans) the endocrine system triggers the female to enter the estrous cycle. The male recognizes the female's being receptive to breeding.

Now, if what you read had any validity (because the population is being reduced the female goes into estrous more often) cattle and other livestock would have overpopulated the planet years ago.

Sorry, but based on my education, I don't believe this is possible.

["JJ"]

I have read something about that. From what I read it was more about litter size than breeding more.
A coyote will have larger litters when the environment allows and reduce the litter size during droughts and such. If the population out grows the holding capacity of the land they will have less food and then reduce the litter size.
On the flip side, if food is abundant, like in the case of a reduced population from excessive hunting, they can increase the litter size.
I don't think they think "Hunters are stepping it up! We need to breed more!"

Now I don't think they reduce the litter size enough to stop the overpopulation, they would have to stop breeding and that is not gonna happen.

Another article I read said that we can remove 60% of the population and not effect the overall numbers. They will adjust that much.

But we just do what we can one coyote at a time! ;)

[johnwilliamson062]

ODNR has been trying to come up with a way to eliminate the growing wild hog problem in our SE corner for a few years, but they will not touch a bounty.
Anyone have any idea on the number out there and the cost of reducing the above mentioned 60%?
I would look much more seriously at coyote hunting with a $10 bounty. I could probably break even at that rate if I did it on the cheap with equipment I already have.

[g.willikers]

The fashion designers just need to make coyote fur coats popular.
That would take care of things in a hurry.

[Gunplummer]

The increased breeding thing might work with herd animals like deer, but not fox or coyote. I used to trap heaviley when I was younger and fox and coyote are "Spill over" animals. The youngsters disperse in the fall and sometimes go for miles looking for "Their place". That is how PA probably became overrun with them to begin with.

[mete]

The Brush Wolf was the original animal in the east and is long gone .The coyote has taken it's place.
There is an interesting study that shows in the NY and PA coyotys 20 % have wolf genes !! That explains those big ones we see in the east !
The tests included DNA and visual exam of the skulls .Yes the difference is obvious !
The coyote is efficient hunting alone for small animals and in packs for deer sized animals.

[Rob96]

The tests included DNA and visual exam of the skulls .

Something the PA Game Commission denied until the DNA testing was conducted.

[Gunplummer]

I see you are from Allentown. If you know where the old Zinc mines are (Near the Promanade ), I remember a guy catching one there about 30 years ago. They were around, but not overrun with them like now.

[Rob96]

Yeah, quite a few more now. In the fall of 2012 I was out for archery in Schnecksville. While it was still dark I just sat there listening to five different coyotes howling. I would say just about every time I go out I see at least one. Called one in with a distress call and have also called one in by accident while out for spring turkey. So much for my turkey calling skills.:rolleyes:

[Gunplummer]

Wait till you pull a bear in with a turkey call!

[imp]

Hmmm...

I may have to get aquainted with this. Atleast it could be a good excuse to get in the woods a little more.

[Chestnut Forge]

DCNR put up $700000 for the bounty. That's based on 28000 coyotes killed. I don't think it has passed yet, and from what I've read the PGC is against it.

[Rob96]

The way I read it in our local paper it was a done deal.

[Chestnut Forge]

Any details on how to collect? I just need to know what part of the 'yote I need to keep and who to take them to. In Utah its the head or bottom jaw.

[kilotanker22]

That's the first I've heard of it but I unfortunately spend the majority of my time on a gas well pad.

We do have some big ones here though! A few years ago I killed a female coyote that tipped the scales at 62 pounds! I sold it to a taxidermist friend who was looking for a pretty yote. For his shop.

She was healthy too. Next time I see him I will get a picture of the mount and post

[Gunplummer]

There you have it. The bill was passed allocating the cash, but nobody is giving it out. Still a rumor until I see where to get the money.

[TimSr]

The fashion designers just need to make coyote fur coats popular.
That would take care of things in a hurry.

You hit the nail on the head there. The collapse of the US fur trade has created overpopulation problems for several species.

[mete]

Nice thing about PA and NY coyotes , 20 % have wolf genes, which explains the 70 pounders !! :D

[.45 Vet]

I smell a coyote tag coming up.

My thoughts also. I also don't like the state putting taxpayer money into the game commission.

[BoogieMan]

I have a nice plot in Tioga Cnty, less than a mile from NY.. Years ago we had a fair number of hogs and it was very rare to see or hear a yote. Now its hard to sleep some nights with all the yotes, but no pigs at all. Out of 12 guys hunting 260+- acres last year we pulled 2 dear in a week. The question is, if we blast all the yotes back to earlier numbers will it give a chance for pigs to move back?
Either way I will be looking for yotes on the days im on the property. Bounty or not they are killing the hunting. Deer, grouse, turkey are all getting to be a rare sight.

[22-rimfire]

Does this mean you can use AR's for coyotes in PA?

[stevelyn]

So what's worth more in PA, the coyote hide as prepped and sold to a fur-buyer or the bounty from whacking it?

[born2climb]

It is almost funny to think the same group of folks can, with the stroke of their mighty pens, declare an animal "endangered", and thereby protected from human endangerment....or declare the same animal a nuisance, and even pay to have it killed. Oh to imagine a life devoid of politicians....

[NCummins]

You'd get more than $25 for the fur. Trapiing is the most effective way to get rid of yotes. Lots of guys catch 50+ a year.

[johnwilliamson062]

Is the bounty exclusive to the pelt or can you collect both?

[mquail]

Another possible negative is in something I have read stated that increased hunting pressure leads to increased breeding. Has anyone else heard that, or confirm that it happens?

I've read a couple of papers that said coyote's response to heavy hunting pressure was to increase litter size. :eek:

"Litter size significantly increased in the removal area 2 years after the beginning of exploitation.
However, changes in litter size were confounded by changes in the prey base. Litter size was
significantly related to rabbit abundance, while rodent abundance was less of a factor influencing
reproductive effort. Accounting for both changes in prey abundance and coyote density, litter
size was significantly related to total prey abundance/coyote. With increasing prey and reduced
coyote density, mean litter size doubled in the removal area compared to pre-removal levels" http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1118&context=icwdm_wdmconfproc

[Cowboy_mo]

With increasing prey and reduced
coyote density, mean litter size doubled in the removal area compared to pre-removal levels"

In reading the paper, it sounded like they studied and area that was hunted hard and then hunting was stopped. Then they observed the return of more coyotes. I also noted from the paper that the increased litter size was linked to an increase in the rabbit population following the removal of the coyotes.

Based on their findings, I suggest that as PA hunters begin lowering the coyote population, they should also increase their rabbit hunting. This will keep both the rabbit and coyote populations in check. :rolleyes:

[BoogieMan]

I havent seen a rabbit on my piece of ground in at least 20 years. But, we have plenty of coyotes. Its not just rabbit. Grouse, turkey, fawn, etc...