If you had to choose between them....

[Pond, James Pond]

Another one of my peculiar questions:
I am yet again re-evaluating my collection. I am still, and will continue to be restricted to the 8 gun rule with my current safe. No, buying a new safe is not an option...

If you wanted a medium sized CF rifle that could eventually be used for hunting, but more frequently shooting paper and short to middling distances, which would you go for: a bolt-action, or a semi?

Let's keep this to calibers common to both platforms such as .223, .308.

Which would you choose and why?

(To give some background to this: although there are no rumours for the time being, there is always the risk that semis in the AR style could be more restricted in the future. In that case, as with .50 cals over here and Norway, better to own one if a ban comes in, and be allowed to keep it.

So I am thinking, should I loose my nice CZ550 Varmint, in favour of a decent semi such as an HK MR.308 or a Schmeisser .223? The upgrade would mean a biiiig cash injection to make up the difference. It is also something I could never then take elsewhere in Europe, were I to move. It would cost more to run, but I could still shoot it out to about 600m, perhaps more if I get good. Although I could sell any of my guns to make room, there are reasons to keep them. At least with the CZ, I would have a comparable replacement and its sale would generate the most cash.)

[MTT TL]

Short to medium distance? Semi wins every time for me.

- Recoil
- Speed
- Handling

I can not speak to your rifle choices as I have no experience with them.

[g.willikers]

I just had this same conversation with a friend.
For hunting and target shooting, we decided the bolt action was plenty good.
There's lots of reasons to favor the semi-auto, but those two weren't them.
Especially with the .308, as there's plenty of time to operated a bolt action in the time it takes to recover from the recoil, and get the muzzle back on target.
With practice, of course.
Somewhere on the net, there's a video roaming around of one of the instructors at Gunsite shooting a scout style bolt action rifle, and making multiple hits on a steel popper before it hits the ground, from an impressive distance.

[Pond, James Pond]

I guess one major issue is that, although my existing rifle can achieve accuracy at greater distances, I think that even a semi's range is probably more than I will manage...

Aside from that, the semi can do everything the bolt can, but not the other way around (IPSC being one). And if the law changes, that is it... I will never own one!!

No indication that it will, but there is not the public debate there is in the US about this. If it happened, we'd probably find out after the event...:(

Of course, then there is the fact that a single HK MR308 wold cost more than my entire collection put together!! :eek:

[BigD_in_FL]

If money is an issue, (and it appears that way because of your safe statement), then go with the bolt gun - slower to fire means less ammo expended in the same amount of time; bolt guns tend to be less restricted in most locales as well.

Want to blast as fast as you can? Then get the semi

[Brian Pfleuger]

I guess my question would be, do you want one enough to do what it takes to get one?

If not, why do you care (from an availability perspective) if something you don't want anyway (or won't do what it takes to get one) is no longer available?

If you want it bad enough to do what it takes, do it, without regard to future law.

Semi-autos can be very accurate and there's no reason you have to go through more ammo with one that you would with a bolt gun. You still control your trigger finger.

[Pond, James Pond]

If money is an issue, (and it appears that way because of your safe statement),

Certainly money is a factor, but it is also that there is nowhere to physically put a bigger safe.

The law being what it is, if I want a bigger safe, it needs to be a monster because it would play the substitute role of a strong room as required for collections of 9 guns or more.

That aside, the HK I mentioned retails here for €3300!!! Put that in dollars, but sit down first. I don't know of any other AR style semi .308s on sale here.

(Actually I don't know of any full-stop)

The only other option would be a VEPR/Saiga semi .308 and although I like them, I don't think they would come close to my CZ bolt's range. At least with the HK, I would have room to develop to longer ranges...

[Buzzcook]

.223/5.56mm is illegal for hunting deer sized or larger game in several US states. Check the local laws in your area.

[Water-Man]

How about the Browning BAR? It is a fine rifle and accurate as well.

[uradaisyifudo]

I think I was reading an extension of this same quandary in the semi auto rifle forum. I also, reading between the lines think you want/need/deserve an AR patterned 5.56 rifle. Quick follow up shots with negligible recoil in 5.56 vs the .308 where reasonable follow up can be achieved with some heavier semiauto rifles, you can more nearly match that with your existing bolt action .308. I think you have a tough decision, but I think you want a 5.56 AR pattern rifle.

[Pond, James Pond]

.223/5.56mm is illegal for hunting deer sized or larger game in several US states.

Having made a brief check of the hunting law over here, I think that any of these would not be legal for hunting. It is not the calibre, but the round content. For hunting a semi rifle/shotgun has to have a mag of no more than 2 or perhaps 3 rounds (I have to check). However, the limit is in that ball park... I've heard of this in other parts of Europe too. So for hunting it is a bolt, single shot or dedicated hunting semi with mags to meet regs.

I think you have a tough decision, but I think you want a 5.56 AR pattern rifle.

I think I've come to that conclusion myself too. I still like the .308 idea, but a 5.56 would be a more real-world option when thinking of costs in general. Still doesn't make my decision of what, if anything, to cull from my collection any easy.

[jmr40]

Unless self defense is a major concern, bolt action. They are less expensive. I could buy 2 bolt rifles, one in each caliber for less than 1 semi in those calibers. Especially when you factor in a handful of extra mags.

The bolt rifle will be lighter for carrying if you choose to hunt, especially with optics. Some 223 semi's can be fairly light, but all of the 308 semi's are pigs. While semi's can shoot quite well, bolt rifles generally are more accurate. For a handloader bolt rifles can be far more versatile. Lighter loads can be developed and hotter loads safely fired. Semi's have a fairly narrow range of chamber pressures that are required to function reliably. Not an issue with bolt guns.

If self defense is an important consideration I'd personally prefer an AR pattern in 223, AND a 308 bolt rifle. But if only 1 rifle is an option I'd lean toward an AR if SD were more important to me, the 308 if hunting were a more realistic option.

Low capacity magazines are available to meet the round limits

[Pond, James Pond]

The bolt rifle will be lighter for carrying if you choose to hunt, especially with optics.

Clearly you haven't seen my rifle!! ;)
It is a .308 with heavy barrel. Sometimes I use it to bench press, but only when I have warmed up properly! :D

I did some dry firing with a snap cap and it did feel good to aim that CZ 550!

[std7mag]

Bolt wins for me every time. Of course PA does not allow semi auto for hunting.

If it were me for short/medium distances I think I would try to find one of the Ruger bolt rifles in. 357 mag. For plinking there is the. 38 special.

[Pond, James Pond]

Bolt wins for me every time.

Any particular reason why? Is it the weight aspect mentioned earlier?

[Jim243]

Hi Jim,

Far be it for me to tell someone not to do something that I have already done. But the truth of the matter is, that if you have a fine collection of rifles, I would keep them and not look into a semi-auto AR or AK type which it sounds as if it is way over priced for the use that you will get out of it.

This is a matter of want not need. If you are buying into the hype here in the US on purchasing something that may or may not be ban. Then you are falling into the same mentality that we do here in the US. If someone tomorrow told us we could not buy tooth brushes, we would go out and buy a hundred of them, some to sell and some to keep, just because someone told us we couldn't.

Doesn't make sense, but it's just the way we are. Yes, they are neat to own, but sit in the safe just as many other rifles do. We can not use them for hunting any more than you can, pest control on our own property yes, hunting NO. We have a number of rounds in the gun limit here as well for hunting.

Will you need one to protect your home and family, that I can not say, but that is their only real purpose. If you need 10, 20 or 30 rounds in a rifle to hunt a deer, well, then you should not be hunting at all should you?

I just hate to see you sell off your collection for something of such a questionable nature.

Good luck and stay safe.
Jim

[Pond, James Pond]

@ Jim243:

Sage words indeed!

You are quite right on a number of points you have made.

I suppose the only difference over here is that, historically, this is a more volatile part of the world and if things kicked off, I might feel a little less vulnerable with a few 30rd mags and a decent AR, but then I would be making a beeline, with family and dogs in tow, for any border that was not in the direction of any unrest!...

I hope that is not anything I or my children will experience.

[std7mag]

James,

"bolt wins every time".

For me that is just personal preference. I'm a follower of one shot, one kill, not spray and pray...

That and there are many more caliber choices with a bolt, than a semi. Even/especially with the wildcat cartridges out there.

(I'm sure I just opened myself up for a pounding!!! :rolleyes:)

[1stmar]

If there is really a need for other types of shooting (action/ipsc) I believe I am in the minority and would suggest an ar. It sounds like you really want to be talked into a semi. If you can find room in the safe you an buy another upper in a heavier caliber for hunting if you need it and perhaps (though I haven't looked) you can find someone in Europe who makes a mag that only holds 2 or 3 rounds.