PDA

View Full Version : Arguments for and against light mounted on one's CCW/HD pistol


ezmiraldo
November 1, 2013, 08:00 PM
Let's hear it folks. Let's assume we are talking about using the same pistol for both CC and HD (a pretty likely situation for many gun owners).

To get us started, here're some I can think of.

FOR:
- Like cockroaches, BGs like darkness. Target identification in darkness (especially in HD scenarios) is greatly facilitated by having light right there on the gun.
- In the dark or not, having one hand free (which would otherwise be holding a separate flashlight in the dark) is useful to deflect attack, open doors, hold onto BG's gun.
- One can illuminate the area/room without having to put flashlight (and muzzle) directly on the object/person. Having gun in low-ready will illuminate everything in front (assuming one has a modern light with greater than 100 lumens).
- Lots of great CC IWB or OWB holsters can accommodate lights mounted on pistols.
- Many don't practice shooting one-handed enough. Having gun on light allows one to assume 2-handed grip, facilitating accuracy and speed.
- Weight of the light makes gun heavier, reducing felt recoil and speeding up follow-up shots.
- One has more options (one doesn't necessarily have to use light every time the gun is pulled). Having options is good.
- Blinding BG with one's flashlight might be good in some situations.
- Over the last 10-20 years pistol-mounted lights have grown lighter, smaller, and brighter
- Argument made by Mas Ayoob in his 2012 book on concealed carry regarding preventing slide from getting out of battery when you are in CQB and are in a situation where you are pressing the muzzle of the gun against BG. Lights attached are normally a bit longer than the muzzle, preventing the slide from going out of battery and preventing gun from malfunctioning in this critical moment.

AGAINST:
- Even if one is trying to identify object/person by putting light in low-ready position, instead of directly on the object/person, tunnel vision, startle reflex, and body response to threat will make it likely that during dangerous situations one would put light (and hence muzzle) on the object/person to be identified. This might unnecessarily endanger family members coming home late, drunk roommates, pets, and other good guys.
- Too heavy/bulky for CCW.
- Light detached is more flexible in ways it can be used (e.g., "FBI method" allows you to have light away from your body, potentially confusing BG who might think the light is where your body is. However with modern lights, the entire room, as well as your entire body is pretty well lit - reducing this particular advantage of the FBI method).
- Overzealous prosecutor can paint you as an assassin wanna-be who "likes to hunt his prey in the dark" - even if you did everything right as a CCW holder and even if you engaged in good justifiable defensive shoot.
- Using light in defensive situation might give away your location.
- Some pistols (e.g., glocks in .40 cal) malfunction when light is attached.
- Night vision ability is temporarily lost (which is the argument against using lights in low-light conditions more generally - can be overcome (a) if one closes the dominant eye while momentarily using the light and (b) by using red light as opposed to white)

What are some additional arguments?

JohnKSa
November 1, 2013, 08:54 PM
I'm not necessarily a big Clint Smith fan, but his comments on lights seem to make decent sense.

March/April 2013 American Handgunner Reality Check Column "Light On Light OFF?" by Clint Smith
Even if you use a weapon-mounted light, I encourage you to train to use the gun light and an additional handheld. It allows you to double-light an area, to have an immediate backup, or to use the second light to “bounce” light off the ceiling or offset doorways or to direct both straight forward.
...

I think strobes are dumb and jack up your eyes really bad. I have had people miss the bullet trap—not the target, but the 24”x36” entire target trap—at distances of less than eight feet. When questioned, it’s always the same answer, “It really messed up my eyes while firing.”

November 2013 Guns Magazine Ranging Shots Column "Applying Light You can’t hit what you can’t see" By Clint Smith
I use the light to find the light switch on the wall and to turn it on so I can see what I’m shooting at. Turning the light on is dangerous because you can get killed, but I would rather see what I was shooting at—making sure it wasn’t a family member—so I can get killed, but I would rather get killed than kill my kids or my partner.
...
The light may “blind” your opponent but it won’t do a darn thing to their trigger finger so they can, will and, in the past have shot back. Strobe lights are stupid because they jack your eyes up. Yeah, maybe the threat’s eyes also, but we covered the “lights in the eyes” and I don’t want to outsmart myself. Many people have.

Dragline45
November 1, 2013, 09:12 PM
Personally I would never have a light on a gun intended for CC, but I am a big advocate for weapon lights on HD guns.

For those who say having a weapon light makes you an immediate target, that is a valid concern, but if you have ever had one pointed in your direction it pretty much blinds you. I would rather see the threat and what I am shooting at then walk blindly into a dark room. When called for, Military Law Enforcement agencies use weapon lights for a reason, and that is because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

Tactical Jackalope
November 1, 2013, 09:43 PM
I carry my CCW with a Streamlight TLR-1s. It's for HD too of course.

Not a problem for me at all. IWB or OWB at 3:30-4:30. If I'm carrying AIWB I don't carry my weapon mounted light. Only reason for that is because I don't have an appendix rig for a mounted light yet.

dayman
November 2, 2013, 04:28 AM
I have one on my "nightstand" gun. I have a separate flashlight too, but having the weapon light means I'll have a light even if I drop, or for some reason can't use my big mag-light.
I don't keep one on my gun when I carry because of bulk, and because my holster doesn't accommodate it.

g.willikers
November 2, 2013, 09:34 AM
Good questions on a confusing subject, ezmiraldo.
For every point there's an equally reasonable counterpoint.
Having two lights seems to make the most sense.
Then there's a choice as to use the one on the gun or not, depending on circumstances.
If the gun accommodates one, of course.

CLC
November 2, 2013, 10:44 AM
- Some pistols (e.g., glocks in .40 cal) malfunction when light is attached.


Is this true? What would cause the weapon to malfunction?

FireForged
November 2, 2013, 11:05 AM
If a person does not mind the extra bulk and weight of a light, I see no real problem as long as they realize that the purpose is to be able to see what you are shooting at [ and that works both ways].

I don't carry a light on my ccw simply because I don't think the extra bulk and weight is worth it but that's just me. At home I do not use a weapon mounted light simply because I know my home well enough and can see 99.9% of the time just fine due to moonlight and other light sources outside that shine the specific windows that I leave curtains-open just for that purpose. If I need a light, I have a fenix in the nightstand and several energizer-Romeo's around the house.

I dislike weapon mounted lights about as much as I dislike vehicle dome lights that you cannot over-ride

ClydeFrog
November 2, 2013, 11:25 AM
In the 1990s/2000s, white-lights & laser aimers were considered add-ons or poor tactics by some. Companies like Crimsontrace & Surefire were just starting out and the technology was new(unproven).
Some major LE agencies & military units embraced the concept(s).
See the action film Speed(1994), the LAPD SWAT characters all used 1911a1 .45acp pistols with the Surefire lights, ;) .
Lasers & white-lights have merit under some applications but they do not replace basic marksmanship. You must also apply common sense & good judgement when using these tools.
I could see using smaller lasers or light systems on CCW weapons. New green lasers are even available for compact pistols now.
The bulk & awkward shape would keep me from packing a full size white light on a carry or duty gun but I've seen many who do it.

Tactical Jackalope
November 2, 2013, 12:25 PM
Yeah forgot to mention that. Aside from the weapon light. I always have this on me

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/03/u9a2e5u2.jpg

700 lumen output with 4 settings and strobe as a fifth.

Yes. Yes I'm on the throne.

ezmiraldo
November 2, 2013, 02:42 PM
CLC, there were some reports that 40 cal glocks malfunction when light is attached. The working hypothesis was that the frame doesn't flex as it should when light is firmly attached, leading to malfunctions. I have experienced this not in .40 cal but in 10mm. I "think" powerful rounds slam the slide back very hard, and with no frame flexing, slide travels back even faster than it already does - creating all kinds of weird issues (FTE, FTF (feed not fire), slide locking back when rounds are still in the mag, etc.)

SSA
November 2, 2013, 03:39 PM
...one would put light (and hence muzzle) on the object/person to be identified. This might unnecessarily endanger family members...

That's it for me.
You don't point a gun at anything unless you already know you're willing to shoot it. You don't point your gun with a flashlight on it at something to see what it is.

FireForged
November 2, 2013, 05:09 PM
You don't point a gun at anything unless you already know you're willing to shoot it. You don't point your gun with a flashlight on it at something to see what it is.

Very good point indeed.. many schools of thought and I totally agree with this post.

pax
November 3, 2013, 10:39 AM
The problem with putting a flashlight on the gun is it a huge number of people will then treat the gun like a flashlight. But putting a flashlight on the gun does not turn the gun into a flashlight; it turns it into a deadly weapon with a light on the end of it.

As others have rightly said, you don't point a gun at anyone you have not yet identified as a threat.

pax

Frank Ettin
November 3, 2013, 11:04 AM
In a class I took at Gunsite not too long ago we did a number of night exercises using a flashlight. The Gunsite perspective on a gun mounted light: they are good for shooting, but one still needs a flashlight for looking and seeing. Remember Rule Two of gun safety -- “never let the muzzle cover something you are not willing to destroy.” One needs to be able to illuminate something without pointing a gun at it

ezmiraldo
November 3, 2013, 11:51 AM
Frank, thanks for your comment. What you said is what I'm inclined to do: Have light on my CC/HD gun while also carrying separate tactical light, precisely due to very good possibility that body's response to potential threat will direct everything (eyes, light, muzzle) towards that perceived threat - even if one is trying to put the light to the side of the threat when trying to ID the threat... Plus, one is none, two is one - as they say... :).

ezmiraldo
November 3, 2013, 11:58 AM
Constantine, wow!! 700 lumens!! Do you set stuff on fire when you light it up? :)

Derbel McDillet
November 3, 2013, 04:25 PM
The purpose of a flashlight is to ID the threat. You'll have other, more important things to manage than the On/Strobe/SOS/Dazzle/Low Power/Off mode of your flashlight. Keep it KISS simple folks.

I discourage multi-mode flashlights for defense use.

ClydeFrog
November 3, 2013, 08:03 PM
I disagree.

There are some practical applications with lasers & strobe lights but I agree, a weapon light shouldn't be the only choice.
Real use of force or home defense incidents are going to be fast, stressful & chaotic. Tunnel vision, lost of hearing/disorientation, injury, etc can make it difficult.

Clyde

Caboclo
November 3, 2013, 08:06 PM
Just because you have a light on your gun doesn't mean you have to use it in every situation. Mount one, train and practice with it, and then make a decision. Maybe you decide that it's only needed in very rare situations; (just like the gun itself) that's OK; you don't have to use it, but you have it if you need it.

RBid
November 3, 2013, 09:21 PM
I need a hand held light to navigate the upstairs, where the bedrooms are. Once I've confirmed that my kids are behind me, I would rather have both hands on the pistol. Thank goodness for PJ pants with pockets.

Tactical Jackalope
November 3, 2013, 10:39 PM
Constantine, wow!! 700 lumens!! Do you set stuff on fire when you light it up? :)

Ha! Real talk, it's turned on twice in my pocket and I've realized it because my leg felt like it was on fire.

Buy yes, I have that on me at all times and at night I attach my Streamlight TLR-1s for CCW and HD.

leadcounsel
November 4, 2013, 02:05 AM
You don't point a gun at anything unless you already know you're willing to shoot it. You don't point your gun with a flashlight on it at something to see what it is.

I disagree. A quality light will illuminate enough of an average household room that you need not point it AT the dark figure, but maybe at the low ready, or toward the corner 30 degrees away with your finger off the trigger. That will illuminate enough to allow you to determine friend or foe, and identify a threat or non-threat.

I do also have, and am trained to use, the FBI flashlight technique. But I prefer to have a free hand for defense, opening doors, turning on lights, and grabbling if necessary, grabbing something like the phone, keys, a small child if needed, etc.

If it would fit in my holster, I'd carry it on my carry gun. But the bulk is prohibitive. And when I'm out in public, I'm generally in well light areas, and can't imagine much scenario where I can't identify a threat versus non-threat. I'm awake and alter and have situational awareness.

Different from that is Home Defense. Nightstand gun has light. I expect it to be handy. If I'm at home, I may be awoken and need immediate light.

spacecoast
November 4, 2013, 06:09 AM
I prefer to light the house with a central source of light than enables me to see anything I need to see. Besides, if awoken my eyes are dark-adjusted anyway. It's amazing what you can see with just a little light if you try.

1DrnkMxR
November 4, 2013, 09:24 AM
I agree with Leadcounsel, you don't need to point your weapon mounted light directly on somesone, you could shine it on the floor and it would bounce the light enough to light up the whole room.

m&p45acp10+1
November 4, 2013, 03:31 PM
I do not use a weapon mounted light on any of my hand guns. I keep a normal 2 AA cell Mag Light. I can see what I need without having to point my weapon the direction of what I am trying to see better with the light. Also they cost money I would rather spend on other stuff like more guns, or reloading supplies. I will knock the use of them if one trains with them. I just do not have much use for one in the things that I do.

I do however have a light on my air rifle that is used for varmints in the dark. It also has a laser. I can see the critter, and where the laser is on them.

raimius
November 4, 2013, 08:05 PM
I shoot a whole lot better with two hands, so I like the mounted light.
I also have white ceilings that make engaging the light while in the high ready very illuminating (pardon the pun). ;)

Nanuk
November 4, 2013, 11:06 PM
They are great bullet magnets. My Grandad who was a cop in Milwaukee during the 1920's and 30's taught me the correct tactics when I was a wee lad......

Modern force on force training backs this up. There is a reason police are taught to shoot with their off hand. In real fights many people are shot in the hands/arms. It is also nice to be able to roll your light into an unknown dark room without entering when clearing a building.

Frank Ettin
November 4, 2013, 11:18 PM
I shoot a whole lot better with two hands,...Which suggests to me that you might want to start training some more in one handed shooting. And there are some techniques which allow a good two handed grip on a pistol while holding a flashlight.

Derbel McDillet
November 5, 2013, 10:27 AM
I keep a normal 2 AA cell Mag Light.

A flashlight with a simple On/Off tail cap switch would serve you better than a twist switch.

My EDC flashlight is a Streamlight MicroStream. It uses a single AAA, has a tail cap On/Off switch, and puts out enough light to quickly ID threats. I clip it to the outer corner of my front pocket. I wear it all day and I don't notice it's there.

http://assets.cat5.com/images/catalog/650/streamlight-microstream-led-pen-light-matte-black.jpg

ezmiraldo
November 5, 2013, 12:25 PM
Thanks all for your civil and thoughtful posts!

I agree - whichever system one chooses, they should learn how to use that system properly and then practice.

Cheers!

raimius
November 6, 2013, 12:55 AM
Which suggests to me that you might want to start training some more in one handed shooting. And there are some techniques which allow a good two handed grip on a pistol while holding a flashlight.
True, but the majority shoot better when using two hands. Why not take advantage of that? One-handed shooting (dominant and weak side) are valuable skills to have, but I don't recommend discounting the easiest grip to get fast, accurate hits.

Frank Ettin
November 6, 2013, 01:15 AM
...the majority shoot better when using two hands. Why not take advantage of that?...Because in an emergency you might not have two hands available. Circumstances might require that you put your sidearm to use with only one hand.

The NYPD publishes a report every year of firearm discharges by officers. Each year between 20% and 40% or line-of-duty shots in violent encounters are taken one-handed.

So if your interest in the use of a handgun for self defense you really can't ignore the possibility that you will need to shot one-handed.

Jim243
November 6, 2013, 04:27 AM
I agree - whichever system one chooses, they should learn how to use that system properly and then practice.

I totally agree with her, by the way I really like the grips you make and welcome to the forum.

My personal preference, (yes preference) is to mount a gun light on the pistol before it goes on the night stand.

It saves me from having to look for two things instead of just picking up the weapon system and getting to work. It provides an additional aid in aiming the pistol as well without using the sights.

As my 18 year old daughter (now 26) frond out one night at 3:00 am while sneaking in the backdoor, her father keeps a weapon light on his pistol at night. It was pointed at the floor 10 feet in-front of her and in her panic she let out "is that a gun in your hand", my reply of course was "is your cell phone broken?"

Know your target use a light.
Jim

ezmiraldo
November 6, 2013, 09:26 AM
Jim, not "her", but "him" :) Thanks for the welcome!

raimius
November 6, 2013, 08:32 PM
Frank, to keep the discussion going, wouldn't one handed shots benefit from having a light included (roughly) on the bore axis?

In reality, I think the best solution is "BOTH." A competent shooter should be able to use weapon-mounted and handheld lights, and quickly deliver accurate shots from strong, weak, and both hands. The set-up for HD/CCW should reflect each user's preferences and abilities (after exploring techniques in training).

Derbel McDillet
November 7, 2013, 12:48 PM
I use the Harries technique, except for close-quarters, danger close type situations where I use a one-handed technique developed by Ken Good (back when he was with SureFire).

One-handed, I grip the flashlight in my support hand the same way as I do the Harries method but I hold the flashlight just below the side of my chin. My firing arm can either be extended or in the close-quarters position depending on the situation. It works very well for danger close work (blind spots and opening doors) when spontaneous threats may appear.

It's easy to smoothly transition back and forth between the Harries and the Good method to adapt to changing situations I encounter during my movement.

ClydeFrog
November 7, 2013, 11:46 PM
I just checked on www.wesh.com the NBC affiliate in Orlando/Daytona Beach Florida.
A group of police officers had a use of force event using sidearms with white lights.
A violent subject took a hostage in a bedroom. The uniformed officers look like they had Glocks but it's not confirmed. The caliber(s) are unknown.

WESH has the event recorded from multiple angles/officers with the new body-cam systems. The PD released the unedited footage to the local media.
NOTE: the video contains graphic real images & profane language.

I think all armed professionals & CCW license holders could benefit from watching this clip to see how white lights & lethal force events in low light really happen. Tactics or firearm instructors should pass it on too.

BTW; Id post the link directly but I'm not sure how to do it with the multiple camera angles.

Clyde

ezmiraldo
November 8, 2013, 09:34 AM
Excellent video, Clyde! Thanks for sharing it.

An interesting question is: What happens if intruder gets inside one's house and takes one of your family members hostage in the dark? What would be preferred method of light use: mounted or separate? In this situation, stress levels would be exponentially greater than dealing with typical intruder situation (i.e., when all family members are together in "safe room" or at least not in the hands of the intruder) and requirements for shot placement exponentially greater. This has got to be one of the worst possible situations that we, civilian gun owners, can find ourselves in.

raimius
November 8, 2013, 02:26 PM
I'm only getting the homepage for the news site. Can you post a more specific link?

ClydeFrog
November 8, 2013, 04:11 PM
Your welcome.
I'd bring up the point of all the trash, food items, furniture etc made clearing the house & IDing threats hard.

While you use a white light or laser in low light, be aware of ambushes & subjects hiding. The cops had a hard time moving through all the rooms.

If you can't see the video(s), check www.wftv.com or maybe www.orlandosentinel.com .
The Daytona Beach PD might have it on their own homepage or PAO section.

Clyde

pete2
November 8, 2013, 09:36 PM
It looks good on TV. It also makes an excellent target.

Valerko
November 8, 2013, 11:28 PM
You don't have to use it , but I'd say its good idea to have it. On HD gun more then CC gun.
That being said , you also have consider Law. In NY if you point. The gun at somebody ( even if you're just using light ) , it's considered assault with a deadly weapon. I'm sure there a few more screwed up states like NY.

Frank Ettin
November 8, 2013, 11:43 PM
...you also have consider Law. In NY if you point. The gun at somebody ( even if you're just using light ) , it's considered assault with a deadly weapon. I'm sure there a few more screwed up states like NY. Nothing screwed up about that. In every State if you point a gun at someone it's assault with a deadly weapon or some other type of assault (it's called "menacing" in Alabama). Your defense will be that it was justified. So you better hope that you can establish that the circumstances met the legal standard for justifying assaulting someone with a gun.

boondocker385
November 15, 2013, 09:42 PM
Everything is a tradeoff. Gun at low ready means more time to react but avoids possibly inadvertently point a firearm at a loved one.....

Glenn Dee
November 16, 2013, 10:09 AM
First off... in NY if you point a firearm at a person, and cause that person to fear for their life it's menacing.. not assault.

Sorry gang.. for being late to the party.

Lights mounted on handguns...

Having had to draw a gun during a real life situation I can testify it can be very stressfull. A person under stress is subject to making controll surface errors. Not saying it will happen any or every time... but it is much more likely to happen under stress. The flashlight, and the firearm are two seperate tools, with two seperate controls. Putting them into one package I believe would lend to a possible disaster that could easily be avoided.

The reason for drawing a firearm indicates at least the possiblity of your opponent being armed. IMO The gun mounted light makes a really good target. Just because a person have a flashlight either on the gun or off it... is no guarente that the officer/home defender will see the adversary first. If the defender is walking around in the dark with any kind of a flashlight... chances are the adversary will see them coming. That could end badly.

The flashlight and the handgun are seperate tools for seperate tasks. The more stuff you carry is the more stuff you depend on that can fail, or just something else that can be forgotten or left behind. The shorter the checklist in your head. The easier it is to keep up with.

Frank Ettin
November 16, 2013, 11:16 AM
... in NY if you point a firearm at a person, and cause that person to fear for their life it's menacing.. not assault...It fits the definition of assault (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/assault), based on the Common Law:an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.In some States (Alabama, and apparently New York, and perhaps some others) the crime is called "menacing" in the statutes.

Glenn Dee
November 16, 2013, 11:58 AM
I get that Frank... But NYS law is very specific. It is Menacing. Class A misdemeanor.

locnload
November 25, 2013, 07:32 AM
I,m a "keep it simple" kind of guy. I have a weapon mounted light on my HD pistol in the quick access safe by the bed along with a good, bright hand held flashlight. But on a practical note, making it part of my EDC pistol just causes more problems than I care to deal with. Just finding holsters that accomedate a mounted light adds more expense and starts to make the gun more cumbersome and more likely to be left at home in favor of a mouse gun. I don't spend a lot of time out and about after dark anyway, I believe in John Farnams theory that you should be home in bed by 10 PM if at all posible. I do always carry a good flashlite on my person as well.:)

ezmiraldo
December 31, 2013, 10:51 AM
my current setup for SD & HD is sig p226, using TLR-2 light/laser as WML + separate dedicated light (surefire executive defender).

44 AMP
January 1, 2014, 01:12 PM
Light is good, light is your friend, BUT I don't think a light should be on a weapon. And for the reason often stated, pointing the light also means pointing the gun.

Now, as others have said, you don't have to point the light directly at the object (potential target), but unless you are a highly trained individual (and how many of us really are?) who never breaks training, then at some point, you WILL point the light (& gun) at someone.

Now, while this may not be bad tactics (depending on the situation) it certainly is bad manners.;)

The fact is that if you are awakened in the night, you don't know what is going on. The bad guy does. The only thing he doesn't know is if you are armed, unless you are one of the "rack the pump gun" types, or you announce you are armed.

I see no point to a light on a carry gun. Or more correctly, no point for me...
Added weight and bulk (even if not much) and questionable utility. Add in the fact that most holsters aren't made to fit a gun with a light...

I do find it somewhat humorous that some will explain how a full size gun is "too big" for CCW, and then they go on to choose a smaller gun, and add a light, which brings the total package back up to (or even possibly beyond) the size of that "too big" gun that they spurned...

You should do what makes the best sense to you, considering your personal situation. My situation is that I am not a cop, nor young and fit. I live in the country, in a small house, with one other person (and some pets). Outside of a (rare) power outage, there are some lights on in my house, 24/7. I have a yard light, and other than my car (a short distance from the front door, and not in complete dark, either) there are no things of significant value (or portability) outside my house. So, for me, the point of having a light attached to my defensive firearms is rather moot.

As to having a light when out and about, I'm still in the camp of "the light should not be on the gun". In my life, there is nothing that requires me to be out in dark places, and so, I rarely do it. Also, there is the consideration that a light, while useful, is not desperately needed, as absent night vision devices, the bad guy can't see in the dark any better than you can.

I'm not going to be clearing any dark buildings, nor do I have family members that might come and go in the middle of the night. My wife's 35lb shaggy mobile alarm system serves quite well, and is fairly cheap to operate (unless the price of treats goes up:D).

your situation could be completely different, and you should evaluate things based on that, not on what any well meaning internet advice says. Take it under consideration, sure, but don't blindly follow it just because the author sounds like they know what they are talking about.:D

raimius
January 1, 2014, 07:16 PM
I disagree on a few points.

First, is that most people shoot significantly better using two hands. A mounted light allows this quite easily. I think that is the largest point in favor.

Second, being able to see as well as an intruder/attacker may not be enough. An intruder can assume anyone in the area is a threat. Most good guys need to be able to not only determine that there is a person, but they must also verify that the person is a threat.
(I had that exact thing happen at an airsoft event. I saw three people enter the building I was in, but I couldn't tell which side they were on. I had to illuminate them to make sure I didn't shoot my own teammates. Sadly, I also discovered the true fact that lights DO attract attention. I hit one adversary and just missed a second [guess I need work on target transistions!] when they hit me in the stomach. :( Good thing it was just an airsoft game!)

Frank Ettin
January 1, 2014, 11:27 PM
...most people shoot significantly better using two hands. A mounted light allows this quite easily. I think that is the largest point in favor...Wow! Déjà vu. See post 29:

I shoot a whole lot better with two hands,...Which suggests to me that you might want to start training some more in one handed shooting. And there are some techniques which allow a good two handed grip on a pistol while holding a flashlight.

raimius
January 2, 2014, 11:42 PM
Yes, now show me that a significant portion of practiced shooters can shoot faster and more accurately with one hand, verses the Weaver, Chapman, or modified Iso. I'd be VERY surprised if there is research that shows one hand is better than two.

Frank Ettin
January 2, 2014, 11:45 PM
Yes, now show me that a significant portion of practiced shooters can shoot faster and more accurately with one hand, verses the Weaver, Chapman, or modified Iso. I'd be VERY surprised if there is research that shows one hand is better than two. If one learns how to manage a gun and separate flashlight properly, he won't be shooting one handed.

Nanuk
January 3, 2014, 12:13 AM
Yes, now show me that a significant portion of practiced shooters can shoot faster and more accurately with one hand, verses the Weaver, Chapman, or modified Iso. I'd be VERY surprised if there is research that shows one hand is better than two.

It is largely situation dependent. I was doing some FATS training some years ago on a traffic stop scenario that turned into a shooting. The other people in the class found it interesting that the flashlight in my left hand never moved as I drew and shot the video BG three times.

A weapon mounted light is A tool.

armsmaster270
January 3, 2014, 01:23 AM
I am a firm believer ih keeping flashlights separate from the weapon.
1. no chance of putting the muzzle on an unidentified innocent.
2. You can hold the light away from the body in case you draw fire.

It's old school but it still works.

Double Naught Spy
January 3, 2014, 08:19 AM
I like having a weapon mounted light. It means I always have a light with the weapon. I don't have to use it, but it is there if it is needed.

It can be hard to manipulate objects when each of your hands is busy holding 1) a pistol, and 2) a flashlight. It can be to clear a malfunction without first putting the light somewhere if it isn't weapon mounted.

People do not multitask one-handed very well, getting one hand to perform multiple functions at the same time, especially when stressed.

If one learns how to manage a gun and separate flashlight properly, he won't be shooting one handed.

At that point, it is almost like having the light mounted on the gun, LOL.

JimPage
January 3, 2014, 08:36 AM
I shoot better with one hand than two. I have tried to learn 2 handed shooting, taken lessons, etc, but my scores are much better one handed. I may be the exception to the rule, but I really think decades of shooting one way will score higher than any different technique.

Obviously individuals vary so I question that one can make a valid blanket statement about which technique is best for all. As for the light, I use my non shooting hand to hold it if I need it.