What causes this malfunction in a Ruger SR1911?

[BarryJGraham]

Hi

I'm having problems with a new Ruger SR1911 which I am getting ready to send back, but I am a bit curious as to what is causing my malfunctions. I'm experiencing some kind of FTF. Please see the enclosed pictures. Both rounds you see in the pictures are live. The casing of the last round fired was ejected. It looks like the top round missed the extractor and was bumped half way into the barrel and the slide then hung up behind the next round. This happens every other magazine. What would cause this?

Regards

Barry

[j2flan]

If those are factory loads and they pass the "plunk" test, I would look at the mags first, and maybe try another brand, is it just with one of your mags or both?

[Crankgrinder]

im not a 1911expert but we have some here. It looks to me like the top round is hanging on the ejector. Soon some 1911 guys will chime in hopefully

[James K]

Ruger factory magazines? Factory ammo? Any changes made to the gun?

I think I know the problem, but would like more info.

Jim

[Sarge]

I would check the extractor tension first.

[Nanuk]

Try another magazine in the gun.

[LivewireBlanco]

Sounds like the mag. If you have more than one see if you can see if it's a certain one. If not, get you a new mag (you want more anyways) preferably Chip McCormick or Wilson Combat. See if that does the trick.

[Aguila Blanca]

It looks like the top round missed the extractor and was bumped half way into the barrel and the slide then hung up behind the next round. This happens every other magazine. What would cause this?
Weak magazine spring.

[BarryJGraham]

Thanks for all your responses so far. Here are some answers to asked questions:

This is a brand new gun using factory ammo (Magtech 45a). I'm having this problem with both the Ruger magazines. The ammo passes the "plunk test".

[RickB]

Looks like "inertia feed"; the magazine does not retain the top round securely and it's pitched forward out of the mag under recoil (actually, it's more like the mag being pulled out from under the round which remains stationary). It can be weak mag springs, but it can also be splayed feedlips.

[tipoc]

It is most likely the magazines. Try another brand of mags. You will want to do this anyway.

tipoc

[geetarman]

I would check the extractor tension first.

That was the problem with mine. Once tensioned properly, no problems since.

[polyphemus]

A head scratcher,it's new so back it goes of course.Having wrote that;
how did that round get half way in with the slide back behind the next round
still loaded in the magazine?
They do have a rather stiff recoil spring and the magazines look like Check-Mates with xtra power springs hybrid guide lips,I would try GI's before I ship it.
Good luck

[MJFlores]

I would do the basic trouble shooting 101 on your gun before sending it back. I agree with others, first just try a new magazine. I'm not aware of any bad lots of Ruger magazines but if it's a new problem we should all hear about it soon. I would also try a good cleaning on the gun, and lubricate the slide and feed ramp well and then try the same ammo to see if the problem still exists. If it does keep everything the same but change ammo and see if things change. I'm betting you'll find it's an ammo or magazine issue.

[dahermit]

Drawing on my experiances with the 1911, two of the most likely causes are, an improperly bent extractor, and/or insufficient strength of the magazine spring.
If it were the extractor, it would have to be way off. Pull the extractor. Does it require some tension to pull it out of the tunnel, or does it drop right out? Usually when the extractor is not bent enough, you would get an empty case jammed straight forward into the side of the ejection port as a symptom, so I suspect your malfunction is caused by something other than the extractor.
If it were the last round in the magazine that was malfunctioning, that would point to "inertia feed", caused by people using non-dimpled, non-standard, increased capacity (more than seven), magazines. However, I see that it is not the last round that jammed.
I see that the case is in front of the extractor hook...which leads me to believe that the problem could very well be, insufficient magazine spring tension.
If you are using factory standard, round-nose ammo, the ammo is not likely the problem.
Nevertheless, 1911tuner will likely be along shortly and being knowledgeable as he is, should be able to easily solve the problem...he is quite expert in the subject of 1911's.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Double feed. Tap, rack, bang. (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu2.htm)

Most likely a magazine issue. If not it's an extractor issue.

[3.Shot.Group.]

Too much tension on the extractor not letting the round's rim slip under it. Relieve the tension and/or put a slight radius on the bottom of the extractor so the round can slip under it.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Too much tension on the extractor not letting the round's rim slip under it. Relieve the tension and/or put a slight radius on the bottom of the extractor so the round can slip under it.


I see that like back surgery. Waaaaaaaaay too complicated with a 1911 extractor.

[polyphemus]

Relieve the tension and/or put a slight radius on the bottom of the extractor so the round can slip under it.
On top of the one that's already there?
And how does that help this issue?It's a new pistol ok?and modifying it in any way may just affect the warranty if a different magazine does not resolve it
then Ruger will.

[JWT]

If it's a new gun why not just call Ruger and make arrangement to send it back to them. They should pay for the shipping both ways. their customer service is excellent and their turn around times are usually very good.

[polyphemus]

Tap, rack, bang.
What?
The picture shows a round already in the chamber and the slide back ready to
strip another one.
The extractor has not engaged it so after the "tap"nothing is going to happen,
no need to "rack" because the slide is all the way back and the "bang" is not
forthcoming after the above ritual.
This pistol should not malfunction and if it does Ruger should repair it.

[DAVID NANCARROW]

ever remove the extractor and clean the part and the tunnel? Depending on the round count, you might be surprised at how much junk accumulates in the tunnel.

[dahermit]

Do a search on this forum (1911, extractor, jamming, etc.)...seems to me there was an identical complaint a few months ago.

The normal cycling of the 1911 has the extractor groove of the case coming up inside of the extractor hook on the extractor. Something is happening to make the case come up from the magazine, in front of the extractor hook.
As doctors are told: "First do no harm." Do the following in order:
1)Inspect the extractor, and the tunnel for manufacturing/shooting debris. There may be something obvious. Observe the loading cycle by manually working the slide and watching how the extractor groove on the case slides up under the extractor hook.

2)Try a seven-round magazine that is known to function in other 1911's. This will tell you if the magazine springs are weak, or the magazine's fault in general.

2) Do no metal alteration until the cause of the problem has been determined to a certainty. Is is best, not a Bubba be. Understanding should come first, "fixing"/altering last.

[BarryJGraham]

As this is a new gun I will not be modifying it in any way, as this could void my warranty. I will try it with another magazine for curiosity's sake to see if that is the problem.

Total round count now is about 300 rounds.

Thanks you all so much for all you replies.

I started this thread, because I couldn't understand how this malfunction could occur. The only chain of events I can see that would cause this would be the following:

1: Round fired
2: Slide moves back, extracts and ejects casing
3: The top round in the magazine either has moved forward and misses the extractor or skips the extractor
4: Slide moves forward and hangs up on the second round (now the top round in the magazine)

I'm not at all sure about step three? Is this possible at all?

[polyphemus]

A Colt owner reported that his rounds were being chambered ahead of the
extractor,this is a similar issue but in that case the slide was closing and
then binding,he sent it out but last we heard Colt did not repair it and the issue
was still present when he got it back.He tried other type magazines without
success maybe that will resolve it for you.Something's funky with that#3.

[Brian48]

Definitely try different mags. I've noticed similar issues with the Ruger mags myself.

If you look at the second picture, you'll noticed the feed lips are really wide with these mags and the cartridges are sitting fairly high. Too high in my opinion. I have zero issues if I switch over to my ACT, CMC, Colt, Mec-Gar, or even OEM Checkmates for that matter.

I've compared other Checkmates with the Ruger version and for some reason, the lips are wider with the Rugers. Not sure if this is how Checkmate makes their mags across the board now, but with my earlier specimens, the lips are slightly narrower. Because of this, the rim of the cartridge case does not sit as high and therefore, less likely to be bumped ahead by the extractor claw during the cycling process.

[James K]

Try different ammo. The extractor groove on those cases looks odd, and it might be that the rim is small and not offering enough resistance to the slide. When that happens, the slide hits the top round and drives it forward before the extractor can capture it. (The same thing happens with the last round in a magazine when the follower doesn't have the "pimple".)

When that happens, the round is free to pop up when it clears the feed lips (which appear to be too short) and that causes it to wedge between the next round and the barrel hood.

The next round can't move forward, but it has come up far enough for the slide to hit it; that stops the slide.

Jim

[3.Shot.Group.]

On top of the one that's already there?
And how does that help this issue?It's a new pistol ok?and modifying it in any way may just affect the warranty

Owning a 1911 is a hobby, like fishing or any other hobby.

Do you send your fishing lures back the factory when the hooks get dull? :D

[Sarge]

LMAO, 3-shot :)

[DAVID NANCARROW]

I notice the stock Ruger magazines have the fixed release lips, which I use in my Gold Cup mostly for LSWC bullet loads. I have shot jacketed ammo loaded from them too, but the variable release magazine lips seem to allow a faster chambering time. Might be due to other considerations such as overall length of the cartridge but Im not certain.

Is is me, or does the mag lips on the OP's weapon look a bit out of shape? The ones I have-stock Colt don't spread out at an angle as much?

[polyphemus]

Owning a 1911 is a hobby, like fishing or any other hobby.

Do you send your fishing lures back the factory when the hooks get dull?
Owning a firearm is a 2nd A right,unlike fishing.
An M1911 is a military weapon.
And if upon opening a pack of hooks I should find dull nails instead you bet
they go back.To each his own.

[3.Shot.Group.]

Dull nails? :eek:

I don't think anyone has ever opened a pack of hooks and found any dull nails.

[SauerGrapes]

I know more than a few guys that ''enhance'' the radius on their extractors. I'm not suggesting the OP should do it at this point, being it's a new gun, but it's fairly common practice in my circles.

On another note, why is it all the mags that come with 1911s seem to need replacing? I've never heard anybody say, ''yeah I'm ditching my M&P mags and buying X brand''......lol :rolleyes:

[Babychief]

Its not a Colt!

Now that said steps to resolve.

With a full magazine have you:

1) hand cycling the slide sling shoting it to see if it chambers fine manually?
Use a full magazine-
2) try a different magazine brand,tripp,mccormick,mec-gar or if you want to save money CAJUN TACTICAL are same as A.C.T. Who makes them for nighthawk (unknown secret),Cajun tactical i believe sells on ebay for only $20 and was same as nighthawk without A.C.T. Stamp on it.

3) did you take it apart at all yourself and reassemble it, did you notice issues with the spring at all,could cause a slower cycling issue if the spring rate from factory was off a few pounds or someone didnt have their coffee at Ruger that day

4) dont touch a file/chamfer anything yourself,send it back,if they dont honor warranty let a gunsmith go through it.


Hand cycle a whole mag,sling shot it ,then do it a bit slower and try and recreate the issue and report back. Its one of three variables. Need to narrow it down to one.
After its resolved polish and throat it so it eats everything.

My .2


colt 1911 mags-
In regards to why some 1911s have mag issues, is some 1911s like the split foot style and some work better with a full radius to engage the slide catch. Its more issues with it staying in battery on an empty mag than it is attributed to feeding issues. I use mec-gar in my officers and tripp research or chip mccormick in my colt govs with 0 issues.only reason why i dont use the Colt mags is the springs in my tripp and chips last longer and some extended aftermarket slide catches dont like the weaker split foot colt mags.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Send it back to Ruger.

[3.Shot.Group.]

Clean the mags and the ammo.

BTW, you can get a new/better extractor for about the same price as a box of ammo, so before running another 4 or 5 boxes of ammo through it, replace the extractor.

And no, you don't have to send it back to the factory to have the extractor tensioned. If a G.I. can do it in the jungle, in the dark, you should be able to do it in your garage/basement/kitchen/pick up/bathroom/sleep.

[Tactical Jackalope]

I still think he should send it back to Ruger. It's a little lame how he paid what he did for a new Ruger 1911 and it left the shop not tensioned correctly. They shouldn't get away with that so easily.

Have them run their ammo through it to test it and pay their gunsmiths to work on it. Get some good old fashioned American labor pumping.

Give them a buzz OP.

[polyphemus]

A properly tensioned extractor holds the cartridge rim between 24 and 30 oz.
this of course was part of boot camp during wwII that's why GI's could do it
in the Solomons jungle at night while under sniper fire.
Sending the OP on a wild goose chase is not helpful,new firearms are represented to work, out of the box.Ruger will resolve it.

[3.Shot.Group.]

The manufacturers could send out more reliable arms, no doubt about it. Sometimes I think these little glitches are part of their marking scheme, they send them out with minor glitches, you send it back and they give what seems to be excellent warranty service, so you stick with them in the long run.

Personally I don't like having to send something new back. My 1911 had 3 little glitches, the extractor needed more tension(had erratic ejection), the ejector was rounded on top(last casing would hang up), and the rear sight was off.

The first 2 glitches I accredit to shooting steel cased ammo, the other to sloppy machine work.

Anyway, I adjusted the extractor by placing it backwards in the tunnel and tweaking it, I cured the ejector by squaring up the face with a file, and I drifted the sight(using a wooden dowel), which became loose as a result, so I removed it and dimpled the back side to make it fit snug again. the gun runs smoothly now, and hits close to POA. I'm getting ready to install a longer trigger, which should improve POA to the point that I can move back to 25 yrds finally. Next, probably lasIC so I can see the target better at 50 yrds. For the LasIC I'll probably consult a professional. :D If only eyes came with a lifetime warranty.

I actually enjoy doing it, I don't think it's all that complicated, and I can test the result the minute I make the adjustments instead of waiting 2 or 3 weeks or longer for it to return from the factory.

[3.Shot.Group.]

A properly tensioned extractor holds the cartridge rim between 24 and 30 oz.
this of course was part of boot camp during wwII that's why GI's could do it
in the Solomons jungle at night while under sniper fire.

You don't have to go through boot camp to tune an extractor, just remove the firing pin stop/firing pin, and extractor, place the extractor in the tunnel about half way, backwards so that when you pull on it it's bending it in such a way as to give it more tension(so the hook will be closer to the left side of the gun when assembled). Just do it lightly and test it.

Sending the OP on a wild goose chase is not helpful,new firearms are represented to work, out of the box.Ruger will resolve it.

I'd hardly call teaching someone to do something for themselves a wild goose chase, and I think it's better than leaving him in the dark.

Sure, Ruger will tension your extractor for you, but it's going to need to have it done again eventually, along with a lot of other tweaks to keep a 1911 running smoothly. I can't see sending it back and forth over and over on their dollar for very long without it ending up costing you in the long run.

The 1911 isn't incredibly complicated, with a few tools, a couple of good books, and attention to detail you can maintain one on your own and probably do better work than the guy at the factory who has 2 or 3 dozen he needs to get out the door ASAP.

[Babychief]

So you think "PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE" is a marketing scheme to help customers believe the warranty service is great and will increase word of mouth sales?

Wow,and you think everyone should be a smith as well. Im only retorting to your response to my reply so keep that in mind.
Your statement on the "guy" who has dozens of jobs to get out the door.
Do you know why? He has vocational skills and is good at his trade craft so he is busy doing his job.

I dont think a person with a dremel and a file is a smith nor a machinist. Even if they had the practical skills to chamfer a part, why wouldnt you leave it to the manufacturer since it is their responsibility to provide a product that works.

Its this ,oh "it only needs this and it will run right and i can do that myself"
Mentality on why things are so expensive and they are polished manure.

This is only my opinion but im sure many smiths,mechanics and machinists can attest to customers telling the experts whats wrong and how if they had the time/tools they would do it themselves.
Wonder why we outsource and have less middle class,blue collar workers.

[steveNChunter]

I'm not a 1911 expert, but I have had a few brand new Ruger handguns. They are usually covered on the inside with a nasty, thick oil that will cause problems within a few shots if the pistol isn't field-stripped and cleaned with something like gunscrubber, then properly lubricated with something like rem-oil and reassembled.

The extractor could be gummed up with a mixture of that oil and unburned powder and not allowing it to function properly. Field strip it and give it a good cleaning. A good cleaning of the mags would be wise too. Ruger is probably going to ask you if you cleaned everything before they tell you to send it in anyway.

If that doesn't work, then send it back to Ruger.

I bought a Brand new Ruger MK III target back last winter that failed to fire 75% of the time after about the first 50 rounds. I field stripped it, cleaned it, never a hiccup since. I now clean every new handgun before I fire the first shot.

[RickB]

3: The top round in the magazine either has moved forward and misses the extractor or skips the extractor


That's inertia feed.

I missed the part where it was determined that extractor tension was the issue?
Talk of adjusting, prior to talk of testing. Field-strip the gun and then slip a live round up under the extractor hook. With the slide held horizontally, as it would be when firing, the round should droop away from the breechface from the weight of the bullet, but rotating the slide around should not cause it to fall off. Slip a spent case up under the hook, and it should not move when you rotate the slide around. Combined, that's a pretty good test for both too much tension, and not enough.
While adjusting tension can be somewhat tricky when working with short barrels, light loads, comps, scopes, etc., a 5" .45 is very forgiving of variations in tension.
I had a gun with no extractor tension, then progressively tightened it until the gun would no longer feed (feed grinding to a halt when the rim hit the extractor hook, not being pushed ahead by it), and until I reached the point that the gun wouldn't feed, it functioned perfectly.

[3.Shot.Group.]

@BabyCheif

:eek: Wow, you really do over generalize; Don't you?

I like doing my own work, simple as that, if that doesn't sit well with you then get over it.

I see no need to bog down a gunsmith with simple tasks such as tweaking an extractor, squaring up an ejector, or drifting a sight, and waiting weeks for it to return when it's an easy fix that anyone with a good shop manual and the right tools can do in 10 minutes.

It's my gun, and I'll work on it if I want to, if I break something I'll cough up the $10 to $35 to replace the part. :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, I blacked out those annoying white dots on the rear sight to.

[Babychief]

Bog down? Its his job and its called capitalism. The trickle down theory,help a local small business,he can go out to eat at local restaurant,the waitress gets tips and buys a car from a local lot and that car saleman buys a house from local real estate agent... See thats why we should keep everyone bogged down with work, its what America once was an industrial powerhouse.

How many made in the U.S.A. Tvs and radios,watches,appliances do you own in your home?
Only reason i have two Glocks is new symrna georgia plant.
The rest are Colts :cool:

[1911Tuner]

That's inertia feed.

Bingo...and it's a magazine problem.

It's not the extractor. It's not the recoil spring. It's not the ammo.

It's the magazine.

In any feed-related malfunction, the magazine is always the first suspect. Always. It's not always the cause, and it's not always the only bug in the nest...but it's always the first suspect, and about 90% of the time...

...it turns out to be the magazine.

When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses...not zebras. This is where a good many shooters turn a 10-dollar problem into a 500-dollar problem when they grab the Dremel and start polishing...things.

Here's the thing. The 1911 pistol was designed to function. If it's built to spec, and fed decent ammunition from a proper magazine...it will function. It doesn't have a choice. It's a machine. That so many seem to run fine with improper magazines is a testament to its reliability.

"Seem" to run fine. Just becaue it's runnin' is no guarantee that it's runnin' right. i.e. If the extractor needs frequent retensioning...there's a problem...and it's a magazine problem. If all is well, the extractor shouldn't require attention beyond periodic cleaning pretty much for the life of the gun. Of course, this assumes a good extractor, made to spec of proper materials.

If you start to notice small burrs being kicked up on the edges of the case rims...Heeeere's your sign! Go straight to the magazine.

I wish I had a dollar for every Jammin' Jenny I've "fixed" by doing no more than handing the disgruntled owner a few of my magazines. Most of'em have been mystified to discover that their high-dollar magazines were the cause of their problems rather than the cure. Some of'em made the switch. A few continued to repeat the same behavior, expecting a different result.

*shrug*

What're ya gonna do...

[TahoeDust]

Woah...not only has this thread taught me a little something about trouble shooting a 1911, I also learned that the backbone of this countries past economical success was based on not being handy or a do it your selfer!

[1911Tuner]

I also learned that the backbone of this countries past economical success was based on not being handy or a do it your selfer!

Not a thing wrong with doin' it yourself...as long ya understand exactly what it is that you're doin'.

There's an old sayin'...

"Only two kinds of people stick their hands in a watch. A watchmaker and a fool."

[polyphemus]

This is a must read (thank you Tuner)
These are new magazines OP tried both,same malfunction they do have a
dimple on the follower and xtra power springs,hybrid guide lips.
You say inertial feed,obviously something's trying to chamber that round
ahead of sequence,return spring would be in the vicinity of 14lb.
General common sense says to try a different magazine,now other than GI
guide lips I have a hard time seeing what 'swrong with that pitcher.A head
scratcher to me.

[Babychief]

Only a mechanic,machinist or gun smith would understand my rant in regards to all the "do it yourself" customers who end of messing up what their working on to "save money". Let a professional do his job.

Im sure there is great a book on neurosurgery, however i wont be taking my dremel to someones frontal lobe although it may seem like a good idea the more posts i read!

Some people turn up their sleeves,some people turn up their noses and some dont turn up at all!-S.E.

[3.Shot.Group.]

@BabyChief

Maybe you're not getting enough gun work for some other reason than we're doing it all ourselves.

[3.Shot.Group.]

So you think "PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE" is a marketing scheme to help customers believe the warranty service is great and will increase word of mouth sales?

Sometimes. :rolleyes:

But for the record, I hardly consider the 1911 obsolete, nor do I think it was planned to ever be.

[Babychief]

Planned obsolescence has nothing to do with making a product obsolete it means a product is under engineered so you have to buy replacement parts for it so the manufacturer continues to make money after the initial purchase..

What makes you think i do any smithing on firearms?:rolleyes:

Believe me here locally "three gun" i would agree with you if you wanted to do your own work,there are two smiths that i know of that are marginal at best.
One doesnt checker/dehorn and the other doesnt weld,lug or do any slide to frame fitting. They do mostly "trigger jobs",spray and bake and sight replacements. Back in new england where im from they wouldnt be called gunsmiths nor machinists.
I dont smith for a living i do it as a hobby for friends,family and competitive shooters. I dont mill any more,there are plenty of quality forged/tool steel parts out there. Infinity,EGW,smith and alexander,Kraft etc.

I dont nitre blue much anymore (600degree salt peter and water incident), but i enjoy hand checkering and serrations mostly.

I love nitre bluing though,this is a little too much,i like just the pins and grip screws. Im going to do the pins and ed brown allen head grip screws on my Colt enhanced gov this week. If i have time,if not i have a friend who does them alot for revolver guys
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k166/poppanitrous/05695a9069895817746d25167ce48f35.jpg

[1911Tuner]

There are two smiths that i know of that are marginal at best. One doesnt checker/dehorn and the other doesnt weld,lug or do any slide to frame fitting.

I can't speak for their knowledge and/or skills, but I can understand why some smiths choose not to do things like checkering and dehorning.

With the ready availability of hard-fit barrels, there's just no good reason to weld up barrel lugs for a tighter fit. At one time, it was the only way, but the "good old days" are gone and they weren't all that good anyway.

Peening and squeezing slides and frames for refitting is labor intensive, and with modern slides...squeezing in a vise is a crapshoot because with many... you don't know what sort of material you're working with.

I've squeezed a good many slides, but they were older slides that could be squeezed for fit. Modern slides are springy. Trying to do the job quickly will result in no change or a cracked slide. That turns it into a gradual process, where a little pressure is added at a time...and left to sit in the vise overnight...lather/rinse/repeat for about a week.

Then...if you're lucky...when you finally take it out of the vise, you find that it's only changed about .002-.003 inch...and some just spring back with no change.

The availability of good quality closely-machined slide and frame sets from the folks at Caspian that generally only need lapping in for the final fit has pretty much rendered the old techniques and skills obsolete, except for the hobbyist...and even then, ya gotta be careful with those slides, lest you start crankin' on the vise and hear the dreaded "tink" that tells ya that it's just become a paperweight.

These days, About the most I'll do is swage the frame rails to reduce vertical play, and leave the side-to-side play alone unless I'm working with a slide made prior to 1946.

[James K]

A couple of interesting points on that feeding. First, forget the nice pictures about the easy and gentle action of a 1911. Not true.

When the gun is fired, the slide comes back hard and slams into the recoil spring guide, which is backed by the frame. The slide does not lose its energy, it deposits much of it with the frame, which returns it so the slide bounces off the frame. The slide does not begin its return due to the spring since the spring takes time to recover, it begins its return due to that almost instantaneous bounce.

So the slide is moving very fast as it encounters the top round in the magazine. The magazine is designed so that the rim of the top round sits in the extractor groove of the next round and some pressure is required to get it moving. It is that slight delay that allows the round to rise along the breech face and under the extractor.

If the magazine is designed to minimize that resistance in a misguided effort to make feeding smoother, the fast moving slide will act like a baseball bat hitting a ball and kick the round free of the magazine and ahead before the extractor even reaches it. Meantime, the next round in the magazine is trying to move up under pressure from the magazine spring. It hits the jammed round and stops in the way of the slide. The slide hits it and stops, totally locking up the gun.

Since the extractor is not engaging the rim of either round, the usual "rack" won't work. The usual procedure is to lock the slide back, remove the magazine, allowing the first round to fall through the magazine well, reseat the second round in the magazine and reinsert the magazine. Then releasing the slide will return the gun to service.

Now, remember the comment I made about the extractor groove in those cartridges? And remember what I said about the top round needing to resist the slide momentarily? If the extractor groove front slope is too shallow, there is not enough resistance to the rim of the top round, and the jam will result.

So, my "diagnosis" is not the magazine but the ammunition. And "tuning" the extractor won't make a bit of difference, since the extractor had no part in causing the jam.

What say you, Tuner?

Jim

[polyphemus]

OP says:
This is a brand new gun using factory ammo (Magtech 45a).
Easy enough to check if there's a proper extractor fit,take the slide off and
insert a round in it,then inspect it with a loupe,only the case rim should be in contact.It is possible that he has two defective magazines,I seem to have got at
least one that was junk out the box,it was binding so bad that it had some
serious wear marks on the follower skirt,they told me that it was normal even
though it was causing failures to the sixth and seventh rounds.
At the very least OP could try a GI style magazine.