Tanfoglio: where are they in the grand scheme? Uses and compatibility.

[Pond, James Pond]

I see the name once in a while, but often as either a more famous CZ clone, or a supplier of parts for other guns (Jericho 941?).

But what about them in their own right?

Are they well made, average or junk?
Are they comp-shooters, range toys, SD candidates or just eye candy?
Reliable, or gamble?

I ask this as my potential interest in all-steel, hammer fired pistols grow and I see two advertised.

One is a compact TA-90 "baby" : 9x19, 15rd mag cap. Based purely on a couple of pictures it looks nicely made, with nice lines but still sturdy looking. The controls are not super big suggesting they have the notion of carry in their design rather than than the larger sizes favoured in race guns.

The other is called the P19. Also chambered in 9x19, the grip says BHP, the slide and trigger guard say CZ75.

What are Tanfoglios like, especially these two?
What role are they best suited to?
What CZ parts are interchangeable? (mags? springs?)
And why are they not mentioned more often on here?

[wbw]

I am not familiar with the two pistols that you mention, but I am familiar with Tanfogio having two guns made by them. I'm quite impressed with mine and would recommend Tanfoglio made pistols. My Witness Elite Match has an SA trigger that is real close to being as good as a 1911 trigger. I'm more accurate with this pistol than any of my others. My Witness Compact is also excellent. 'Tanfoglio made' is a 'plus' in my opinion. Well made.

I consider my Match to be closer to a competition type pistol. It is my understanding that Tanfoglio pistols are common in European competition shooting.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/wbwanzer/Witness002.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/wbwanzer/media/Witness002.jpg.html)

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/wbwanzer/Witnesscompact002.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/wbwanzer/media/Witnesscompact002.jpg.html)

[Sevens]

Tanfoglio has a very long history of making decent guns. When the CZ-75 platform was perfected... nobody around the globe could get their hands on many because of the iron curtain, and that's where Tanfoglio really made a name for themselves.

I own a Witness Elite Match like the first gun pictured by wbw and it's a fantastic piece of work, but I would make it clear to perspective buyers that the Witness Elite Match and the pistols above it in the current line are pretty much different animals than the lower priced guns below it. And the one you mention in your post is an old, mass-produced workhorse of a gun. Quality, durability, sure -- but don't expect a fine precision pistol from an old TA-90. Those were basically duty guns.

On Gunbroker, you can find sellers that have bought mass quantities of these in LE programs, all former duty & issue guns. MANY in the last few years have been Israeli Mossad marked, very cool.

Tanfoglio guns here in the United States have one little hitch that you don't have to worry about in your locale: here, new ones are all handled by EAA, the sole importer, and EAA's reputation for... well, anything... is awful. :( Thankfully, my Elite Match hasn't needed their help in over 3,700 rounds since I got it new.

[wbw]

The Elite Match is a sweet gun. I would love to experience one of their higher end pistols but that won't happen. My budget won't allow it and I don't know anyone who has one. The Elite Match is about as high up the Tanfoglio ladder as I'll get. But there is nothing wrong with that.

[Venom1956]

Since Pond isn't from the US i'd be interested to know who imports them there and if their CS is any better.

[Sevens]

Haha, it has to be better. :p

[Walt Sherrill]

I'd be curious about Tanfoglio's CS in the rest of the world. I think EAA handles some customer service for them here in the U.S., but since Tanfoglio doesn't seem to sell Tanfoglio-branded products here, that CS function is mostly to provide parts for older Tanfoglio- pattern guns that have been imported, but aren't supported by the importer.

With regard to the OP's questions, except for the very oldest Tanfoglio guns, there is almost no interchangeablilty of parts between Tanfoglio and CZ weapons. Everything from springs (except as noted below) to pins, to some aspects of the internal workings, are subtly different. (The firing pin block is a different design; the mag brake disappeared; extractor design is a bit different; barrels are quite different, hammer spring design is different, etc., etc.)

The 9mm, .40, mags for the full-sized small-framed Tanfoglios will work in full-size CZs, and vice versa; not so the compact models. (the Tanfoglio compact mags are shorter and won't LOCK in place in the CZ compacts; the CZ compact mags will work in the Tanfoglio compacts, but stick out too far. The .45 mags are nearly identical.

Tanfoglio recoil springs for the small-framed guns will work in CZ, but are really a much larger diameter, because of the Tanfoglio's larger diameter guide rod -- which causes some "slop" on the guide rod when they're installed in a CZ. (BHP springs work better.)

Witness only imports the large-frame versions of the Tanfoglio design, now; I don't know if the small-frame guns are still available in Europe, etc.

[Skans]

I own a Tanfoglio Witness Stock 10mm. It is one of their higher end guns. It has the best DA/SA trigger I've ever experienced - very very close to an true SAO trigger in single action. Fit, finish, and machining is very nice, mine is hard-chromed, some proprietary finish of Tanfoglio which is durable.

My 10mm is extremely accurate - it is my pistol of choice when shooting bowling pins. Next to my Sig X-Five, it is one of my favorite guns.

[Pond, James Pond]

Since Pond isn't from the US i'd be interested to know who imports them there and if their CS is any better.

These are not new.. They're used. This probably explains the fact that this little TA90 is around. Over here the used guns can be quite unusual and there must be a fair few interesting stories of how they reached this little country.

However, one thing is for sure, there will be no CS. In fact the only two places that seem to be official dealers for a given gun brand are a Glock Certified dealer and a CZ dealer.

That is why it is always interesting to me to know about cross-model compatibility with, say, CZ as the most obvious candidate.

[Kev]

I have the Tangfolio MAPP1 imported and assembled by Armscor and I love it.
I chose the Armscor based on their track record of excellent customer service.

[Babychief]

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k166/poppanitrous/7ced6a1171f84fe2ebb4954d41f80395.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k166/poppanitrous/2c379d339debe25cca0d5fbc91800d14.jpg

Buy Real TANFOGLIO's not E.A.A. Import witness CZ clones or MAPP philipino M.I.M. Stuff.
Try cycling the slide on a witness in a stress fire scenario,you end up grabbing the frame! The slide is not large hand friendly, your middle finger of strong hand also rubs on the trigger guard. Great shooter,designed poorly.
Thats why you see "charging handle knobs" on competiton iron sight tanfoglios.

Tanfoglio GOLD/customs are awesome

[Pond, James Pond]

Try cycling the slide on a witness in a stress fire scenario,you end up grabbing the frame!

This has always been one of my (few) concerns with CZs; one of the few well supported alternatives to my present Glock.

[marine6680]

You get used to the slide design. The internal rails of the CZ 75 and clones help to make them more mechanically accurate, by making the lock up more consistent.

I own two CZ 75s currently, my first pistol was a EAA imported witness in 45 acp with a 22LR conversion.

I did a basic trigger job and added a lower power hammer spring to both, and they are awesome pistols. I love them... One in 9mm and one in 40s&w. The 9mm is my fiance's.

Here are some pics. The 9mm, and a group I shot with it a while back. One of the last mags of the day, and I was tired hungry and hot... I wasn't trying too hard. lol The group is about 2 inches.

91968

91971

[marine6680]

Here is the 40s&w and a group from the same day... two 10 round mags (the 9mm group was two 15 rd mags) Literally the last two mags that day, I packed up and left right after. I was doing good at keeping the group at two inches, then the last few rounds I got impatient and just started pulling the trigger. LOL

91973

91974

I believe Walt answered your questions about parts. As far as the guns themselves. I liked my 45, but it was a large framed gun, bigger than the CZ 75. I know that the Tangfolio witness used to come in a small frame that was about the exact same size as the CZ, and if you want one, I would go with the small frame if available.

But if I didn't have to choose between guns on the used market, I would get a new CZ. Though, the witness match series are very nice and not too expensive even new, only a little more than a new CZ. With the benefit of getting more hand work and attention to detail, it being a "match" pistol, though only an entry level one, not high end.

[LarryFlew]

Can only reply based on my own experience with 3 of them but in 45. 2 where great all the while I owned them. The 3rd needed help from day one. However, unlike others who have complained about the service mine was sent to them on their nickel, repaired correctly and returned to me. In another unrelated case I asked about a part that was scratched up on a new gun and they sent the part.

Have never handled or shot their 9mm.

[Skans]

Buy Real TANFOGLIO's not E.A.A. Import witness CZ clones

I don't understand this statement. The beautiful Tanfoglio race gun in the photo was likely imported by EAA - it is also a CZ clone, although highly modified. All of the Witnesses, Stocks, Limiteds, etc. are made by Tanfoglio and imported to the US by EAA. You can't come close to Tanfoglio quality for the price - they are excellent guns.

[Venom1956]

Try cycling the slide on a witness in a stress fire scenario,you end up grabbing the frame!

It is smaller that there is no doubt I usually use the hand over slide method and hook it against the rear sight for a bit more leverage. But an outside of the rails slide is easier to manipulate.

cocking handles are all the rage on USPSA open guns since normally there will be some sort of sight up and over the slide.

[Gruney]

I bought a new full frame 45 after being dazzled by the Wonder finish. It is kind of a champagne goldish satin finish. I shoot it the best of my pistols which isn't saying much.
I like the ability to change calibers for under $300. Waiting for a 22 slide kit if it ever comes off backorder from Midway.
I have read plenty of horror stories about EAA but have not had need for service - James will hopefully have a better importer.
I would call the Tans a CZ pattern because there isn't a lot of parts compatibility. The high end Tans are a different animal because they are hand fitted and have match grade barrels etc. Regular Witness is a service grade pistol but great if you can't get the caliber you want in a real CZ, like 38 super or 10mm.

[Crazy88Fingers]

A friend of mine just bought a .45 Witness and he loves it.

Personally I felt the grip was a bit too large (as I imagine a lot of double stack .45s are) and the slide too narrow. Also, you won't find any magazines at the local gun shop. Aside from that it seems like a well made gun.

[Skans]

When I purchased my Stock 10mm I wanted several extra magazines. I called EAA - they were very helpful in letting me know which magazines to order. I placed my order for 3 mags ($23/mag in 2008) and receved them in 2 days. Couldn't have been easier, cheaper or faster! Very nice quality, polished and blued, magazines too.

Tanfoglio's uper-end guns are bargain priced for what you get.

[6.8]

I think they make excellent target / range / competition etc.. Pistols. But, as mentioned earlier, you need to stick with their elite line. I cannot however reccomend them as a self defense Tool. If you are an experienced Shooter and are proficient working on pistols, then yes. But for the avg. owner/shooter no. :)