striker-fired semi with decocker?

[simonrichter]

Overall, I like the simplicity of my Glock.

Yet, when it comes to having the pistol ready in the nightstand drawer over a longer period of time, I have to keep it half-loaded because I don't like the idea of having it completely ready to go boom when I might need to grab it from some awkward angle, maybe even being sleepy still.

I'm pretty sure many folks here in this forum could name me some possible alternatives where I'd have the same functionality, but the extra option to (visibly and palpably, at best) de-cock and re-cock the gun with an external lever in case I want long-term readiness instead of shooting instantly after loading.

[AndyWest]

Are you fixed on a poly/striker gun? A SIG P226 is my nightstand gun for the reasons you describe. No manual safety but the double/single action gives peace of mind plus simple operation. I picked mine up in 40 as a "home defense" package with the night sights and a light/laser mounted.

But if you want to stick with your Glock, maybe a holster even tho it's in the nightstand? A gun you're familiar with, doesn't need racking in the event of an emergency, but the trigger's still covered.

[UncleEd]

Simon, basically you've mentioned several reasons why you don't like your Glock.

Maybe it is time for a Sig or an H&K or a Beretta with decocker and double action capability.

Also, the Smith M&P can be had with a thumb safety although essentially it's in the Glock family of operation.

[kahrguy]

Put a NY trigger group in your glock. That heavier trigger should stop your fears of screwe'n up half asleep or add a safety to your glock.
http://cominolli.com/product_info.php?products_id=29

Or buy a M&P with a safety.

Or do you feel half awake you will trip both a safety and a trigger.

Or third git over the stricker and decocker lever and buy sig with a god awfull heavy DA/SA trigger that defies a good trigger pull.

Maybe a pump 20ga shot gun for home defence. Buy the time you wake up and rack the shotgun the BG will be gone. then and call 911.

[Kevin_d77]

The Walther P99 I fondled the other day was a striker with a push button, slide mounted safety. It was the weirdest thing I have seen but pretty cool.

[g.willikers]

Carry an auto loader, but sleep with a revolver?

[simonrichter]

Thank y'all, actually I'd take a closer look at the M&P

Carry an auto loader, but sleep with a revolver?

that would be the solution wasn't that it I live in a state where the number of firearms you are allowed to possess is restricted (I'm afraid that's going to swash over the pond, sooner or later. The "more control, more restrictions, less personal freedom" approach seems to be quite contagious)

[Walt Sherrill]

Just because the striker spring, in some guns (ala Glock and others) is partially compressed, that doesn't mean that it's any EASIER to fire it accidentally than one that isn't partially compressed... The overall trigger pull weight of many of striker fired guns seems quite similar, whether the striker spring is or isn't compressed.

If a partially "cocked" striker spring is a continuing concern, you might look at the NY trigger for the Glock -- heavier and more like a revolver (or so some claim). I think the striker works the same, but you have a much heavier trigger spring to overcome.

Or, just keep your finger out of the trigger guard until you're fully alert. That's easier than it sounds, even in a semi-alert state.

[simonrichter]

Yeah well it seems I will have to live with my Glock for a while, since any other brand is much more pricy here; plus there is hardly any used market stuff other than Glock.

I'm well aware that the spring is only half-cocked with Glocks and made brought to the critical point only by pulling the trigger.

So yes, maybe what I'm looking for is just a safety that disconnects the trigger and not one that completely decocks the like in a SA/DA gun. With a decocked SA/DA, you can still shoot by pulling the trigger, only with a longer, harder pull (in case the de-cocker is not combined with another safety feature).

In other words: My ideal gun would have to states as soon as a round is chambered:
1.) Glock-like ready to fire,
2.) one click with the safety > trigger is either disconnected or pin is decocked in a way that a trigger pull can't cock and fire it > one click with safety back to state 1.)

[kahrguy]

How about a handgun safe or a level 3 holster keeping your hands. Ether one will make you wake up and pay attention to what your doing. But it all boils down to good handgun skills . No finger on the trigger no BANG. Add a leo trigger to it and the bang is harder to get. From a stock 5lb or 5.5lbs to 8 or 10lb trigger pull.

[Strafer Gott]

Steyr makes a Glock-like pistol with a safety in the trigger guard. They aren't common, but they exist.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Makes more since to me to just not have one in the chamber. Takes about the same time to rack a round as to fumble for a de-cocker.

Also it would seem that a de-cocker on a striker fired pistol would be much less feasible than a safety from a design standpoint.

[TunnelRat]

Also it would seem that a de-cocker on a striker fired pistol would be much less feasible than a safety from a design standpoint.

And yet the Walther P99 has been in existence for over a decade.

P99 is a great gun, check it out if you get the chance.

[Microgunner]

The Walther P99 is also available on the used market as a S&W SW99.

It sounds like the fix to the OP's problem.

[PSP]

The HK P7 is another solution. It isn't cocked until you cock it. Uncocks when you set it down. Kind of idiot proof in that regard.

My P99c QA decocked, but that function is mainly for disassembly. It rrquires a "press check" type retraction of the slide to recock the striker.

[Jim Watson]

Walther P99AS is the gun you describe.

There is a device for Glocks, the Safe T Blok
It is a plug that fits behind the trigger, positively blocking its stroke.
Pick the gun up, punch the block out with the tip of your trigger finger and you are ready to shoot.
http://www.clipdraw.com/store/index.php?rn=396&action=show_detail

I used to have one, it worked as described; IF you feel you need a manual safety on a Glock.

[Venom1956]

Adding a decocker to a striker gun wouldn't do the thing you describe the purpose of a decocker is to move a gun from SA to a heavier DA pull. The gun can and will totally function if the trigger is depressed. If you want a lever to make it unable to fire that would be a safety.

If you wanted to decock the striker on one of the safe action 90% SA like glock kahr, (XD or m&p?) the only way to recock it would be to work the slide. which seems kinda pointless if there is a round in there.

Think Jim is right about the AS

[Theohazard]

Venom1956 posted:
If you wanted to decock the striker on one of the safe action 90% SA like glock kahr, (XD or m&p?) the only way to recock it would be to work the slide. which seems kinda pointless if there is a round in there.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I think the OP needs a DA/SA gun instead of a striker-fired gun. Like others have said, aside from the P99AS, almost all striker fired guns won't fire at all when decocked and the only way to cock them is rack the slide.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Adding a decocker to a striker gun wouldn't do the thing you describe the purpose of a decocker is to move a gun from SA to a heavier DA pull.

There are more than one type of de-cocker. Some do as you described and some de-cock and go into safety.

Also the Glock is a SA Striker fire and by design is better suited to add a safety. Much easier and safer to design and implement and to me should be an alternative to the SD trigger.

I would offer it as an option if I were the Manufacturer.

The SD trigger was designed to mimic DA mode (with a little lighter trigger pull than DA but fire in a SA gun.

The biggest problem with the SD trigger is it's effect on accuracy and not so much on safety unless you install a trigger kit to reduce pull weight. Also the SD would be less harmful to accuracy had it not been installed on the lighter polymer frame.

Just seems backwards to me from an accuracy vs. "ready to go" design standpoint.

[Theohazard]

Jim Watson posted:
There is a device for Glocks, the Safe T Blok
It is a plug that fits behind the trigger, positively blocking its stroke.
Pick the gun up, punch the block out with the tip of your trigger finger and you are ready to shoot.
I've seen these advertised before and they seem like a terrible idea to me. I would think that the extra step of popping the block out from behind the trigger would be easy to mess up, especially if you were under fight-or-flight stress and then drawing from concealment and immediately firing.

So the only way to minimize the chance of fumbling with the block in a life-threatening moment is to always carry the gun with the block installed and then make sure you constantly practice it with every draw, but that brings me to another issue: You're drawing and then immediately putting your finger in the trigger guard. Sure, your finger is going behind the trigger, but how hard would it to mess that up?

I'll admit I haven't tried it, but it seems to me that the Safe T Block could easily cause you to forget to disarm it under stress and therefore have a non-functioning firearm, or it could cause a negligent discharge because you put your finger in the trigger guard prematurely. It seems to me that if you feel the need for a product like that, you should be carrying a gun with a manual safety.

[Theohazard]

I think the easy solution to the OP's problem is a bedside holster of some kind. That way he'll be grabbing the gun from a known position and as long as he keeps his finger where it's supposed to be there's no chance of an accident.

[Jim Watson]

I'll admit I haven't tried it, but it seems to me that the Safe T Block could easily cause you to forget to disarm it under stress and therefore have a non-functioning firearm, or it could cause a negligent discharge because you put your finger in the trigger guard prematurely. It seems to me that if you feel the need for a product like that, you should be carrying a gun with a manual safety.

I have tried it, and while I did not feel a need for it in MY use, it did work as claimed.

""Forget" to disarm it?"
"Finger in the trigger guard prematurely?"
You don't need any help from SafTBlok to screw up in those ways.
Many people do not trust themselves not to forget to disengage a built in manual safety.
The block appeared to me to discourage premature fingering of the trigger, not promote it.

It had two drawbacks that might or might not bother the OP.
Every time you punch it out, you are going to have to look for it and pick it up to get back to the starting point of readiness. It might be worthwhile to have two.
It requires you to perform what some find an unnatural act... practice.

It has two advantages to the OP.
It is cheap.
It does not require him to go through the licensing process for a new gun.

Me? I am like Andy, I have a P226.

[Venom1956]

There are more than one type of de-cocker. Some do as you described and some de-cock and go into safety


A decocker is a decocker. A decocker/safety is just that. They are not the same.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I dont think you understand what I wrote

I did . I was just adding to your description of a de-cocker with another type of de-cocker. I wasn't ripping your analogy apart.

A decocker is a decocker. A decocker/safety is just that. They are not the same.
I also never said they were the same. Simply put the safety de-cocker combines two actions, de-cocks and engages the safety. But the action of the De-cocking is the same as well as the end result of the De-cocking function.

Where did I say they were the same?

[USMCGrunt]

The Taurus 24/7 OSS is a striker fired pistol that has a decocking striker. The safety can be used like a 1911 or not like a Glock. When the striker is cocked, you also can press the safety lever up past the safe position and it will decock the striker leaving you with a more traditional DA/SA style trigger.

[8MM Mauser]

I got to handle and fire a P99 a few weeks ago, and I shall throw my weight behind that choice. :)

[guncheese]

i have a canik55 TP-9
its similar to the P99AS in design
the trigger works the same way via the decocker
and you get second strike capability
and they just released it in .40 smith

[Theohazard]

Jim Watson posted:
""Forget" to disarm it?"
"Finger in the trigger guard prematurely?"
You don't need any help from SafTBlok to screw up in those ways.
True, but the Safe T Block REQUIRES you to put your finger in the trigger guard, perhaps before you're actually ready to fire.

Jim Watson posted:
Many people do not trust themselves not to forget to disengage a built in manual safety.
True, but many people have trained for years to disengage a manual safety, while the Safe T Block is a completely new thing to learn for most people.

Jim Watson posted:
The block appeared to me to discourage premature fingering of the trigger, not promote it.
How so? Without the block, there's no need to put your finger in the trigger guard until you're ready to fire, whereas with the block you have to put your finger in the trigger guard to disable it. Sure, your finger should be behind the trigger at this point, but it seems like this could easily be messed up under stress or if you're in the process of being assaulted. Having your finger indexed along side the frame is a lot safer place than in the trigger guard, even if it's behind the trigger.

Jim, please don't take my criticism of the Safe T Block as a personal attack or anything like that. I'm just trying to understand how this product could be a good idea when, to me, it seems like a terrible idea.

[Tomac]

SIG P250 is true DAO, a long but light/smooth trigger pull (like a very good revolver trigger) so no need for a manual safety/decocker, each shot is deliberate. It's available in a variety of user-swappable calibers, versions and grip sizes all centered around the serialized FCU (fire control unit).
Tomac

[Venom1956]

Where did I say they were the same?

You didn't I was just clarifying it for the OP. I am not sure how well he understands the topic at hand thus I try and not assume anything on the chance he does not actually know the difference between the two.

PS. I miss read you post initially. I apologize the first comment I revised it upon rereading.

[SpareMag]

Leave it unchambered?

With a bit of practise, an autoloader is chambered in an instant of time.

Saw a vid on the Tavor, made in Isreal. As part of the demo, handguns were pulled from a holster and racked to chamber as part of the aiming technique.

[TunnelRat]

With a bit of practise, an autoloader is chambered in an instant of time.

Saw a vid on the Tavor, made in Isreal. As part of the demo, handguns were pulled from a holster and racked to chamber as part of the aiming technique.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The firearms community's obsession with what the Israelis does amuses me to no end. "Well the Israelis do it." I feel like a mother that has to say, "Well if the Israelis jumped off a cliff would you jump off a cliff too?" For a home defense situation yea I don't see a big issue with leaving the weapon unchambered. For a carry weapon I would never do that. From my understanding that practice on behalf of the Israelis stems from a time when they carried sidearms without firing pin blocks.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

PS. I miss read you post initially. I apologize the first comment I revised it upon rereading

No biggie but thanks. I have misread before too.;)

[simonrichter]

Two conclusions:

1.) A lot of potential options, even if I want to stick with a striker-fired gun (maybe the Steyr mentioned above would be a good idea, since it is easily available here in Austria, other than other makings.

2.) The different combinations of trigger- and safety systems can be quite complicate when examined systematically

[ragwd]

My Beretta M9, is a striker fire, with a decocker/safty. Im not sure if this fits the OP's requirements. I like the decocker as a way to lower the hammer but it puts you into a safety mode, requiring you to take the safety off before pulling into a da/sa. i like the weight of the alloy and for me a very accurate 9mm.

Correction, it is not striker fired but hammer fired !

[BigD_in_FL]

The HK P7 is another solution. It isn't cocked until you cock it. Uncocks when you set it down. Kind of idiot proof in that regard.


The solution to his problem, I love mine -squeeze it and ready to go, release the squeeze, instantly safe

[Fishbed77]

Also it would seem that a de-cocker on a striker fired pistol would be much less feasible than a safety from a design standpoint.

How so? The P99AS works pretty much like any other DA/SA pistol with decocker (SIG P-226, HK USP, etc, etc). It just happens to have a striker instead of a hammer. To re-cock the pistol, you pull back on the slide about 1/4" instead of thumbing back the hammer. The P99 a stupidly reliable design that has been around for over 15 years and is widely used by police and some military forces in Europe.

The P99AS also has the benefit of having what is probably the best trigger of any striker-fired pistol ever made (the Walther PPQ and HK P7 come close, though).

[Homerboy]

My Beretta M9, is a striker fire, with a decocker/safty. Im not sure if this fits the OP's requirements. I like the decocker as a way to lower the hammer but it puts you into a safety mode, requiring you to take the safety off before pulling into a da/sa. i like the weight of the alloy and for me a very accurate 9mm

The M9 is not striker fired. it is hammer fired.

[johnwilliamson062]

Mine stays in a holster even on the nightstand for the reasons you mention. I have a cheap polymer paddle holster and detached the paddle part.

[Theohazard]

ragwd posted:
My Beretta M9, is a striker fire, with a decocker/safty.
The Beretta is a good gun and would probably serve the OP well, but it's not striker fired, it's hammer fired.

[Homerboy]

I know that plastic striker fired guns are all the rage now, but I despise them. They work, but the absence of a hammer and a safety demand a higher level of training and vigilance then a hammer fired weapon. The NYPD authorizes three guns, SIG 226, S&W 5946 (both hammer fired DAO) and the Glock 19. At the time of my retirement, EVERY negligent discharge was with the Glock. At the range, the range officer would issue the command "SIG and S&W, thumb on the hammer and holster". THAT is where the majority of ND's happen. People aren't perfect. You can holster calmly all you want, but try to do it on a felony carstop or while rolling around with a perp.

The OP doesn't sound very experienced. A Glock with a 5.5 pound pre-cocker trigger and no safety is a bad idea, in my opinion. I NEVER recommend a striker fired gun to a new shooter.

[simonrichter]

The OP doesn't sound very experienced. A Glock with a 5.5 pound pre-cocker trigger and no safety is a bad idea, in my opinion. I NEVER recommend a striker fired gun to a new shooter.

absolutely, that's the point. I used to use my gun 100% on the range (just silhouette shooting) until recently, where there is nothing better for a less experienced shooter and where I don't desire any additional safety, with all the routines there anyway.
Maybe it even isn't an ACTUAL problem, but while it makes it easier to focus on the gun rules on the range, the absence of any manual safety still FEELS uncomfortable for me now I have to play house-sitter and have the gun on my nightstand.
My second option (at the moment) would be a Taurus PT22 which has a REAL long DAO pull AND an external safety, yet it would be ridiculous to use that one for home defense.

[ragwd]

The Beretta is a good gun and would probably serve the OP well, but it's not striker fired, it's hammer fired.

I stand corrected ,Theohazzard, and Homerboy, thank you

[cas700850]

Let me say hello, newer member of the board, and throw another vote behind the P99AS. Had one and let it slip away for a SIG P239 SAS. The AS is exactly what the OP is asking for, a polymer frame, striker fired pistol with a decocker. Mine was far more accurate than my Glock 19, and functioned perfectly. Magnum Research is now making one under license from Walther, at a lower price. I hope to reacquire a P99 in the future.

[simonrichter]

Hm, so I guess the Walther P99, The S&W M&P and the Taurus 24/7 are going to be promising candidates...

Yet another challenge: Which of these are ambidextrous?

[aimtrue]

Post deleted because it is not applicable to this thread. My error reading original post.

[tahunua001]

I have never seen a striker gun with a decocker, people complain enough about LCIs and SCIs without adding a knob on the back to allow decocking/recocking. I'd switch to a beretta PX4 or sig 226 if I personally wanted a decocker but in the end that decocker only adds weight to the trigger pull, you can still accidentally discharge it. at least the PX4 has a true safety so it won't go off when it's been decocked until you throw the safety off, sig is just a heavy trigger pull away from going off anyway.

[Jim Watson]

The Walther P99AS has ambidextrous paddle type magazine releases.
The decocker is in the top left of the slide, pretty much neutral.
The slide stop is on the left only.

The Smith & Wesson Plastic M&P has ambidextrous slide stop and, WHEN SPECIFIED, ambidextrous thumb safety (Most are shipped without manual safety, but it is available upon request.) The magazine catch is not ambidextrous but is reversible.

Just looking at pictures, the Taurus 24/7 appears to have all ambi controls.

[BigD_in_FL]

I know that plastic striker fired guns are all the rage now, but I despise them. They work, but the absence of a hammer and a safety demand a higher level of training and vigilance then a hammer fired weapon.

I disagree, just like a simple Kodak Brownie, all you need to do is point and shoot, nothing complicated about it, nothing to try and remember while under stress, nothing to fiddle with - point it shoot it.

[tahunua001]

I disagree, just like a simple Kodak Brownie, all you need to do is point and shoot, nothing complicated about it, nothing to try and remember while under stress, nothing to fiddle with - point it shoot it.
yes but if you're trying to teach someone how to use a gun and they lack muzzle and trigger discipline that can result in neglegent discharge and even death, not long ago there was another member here talking about his time as a line coach in the USMC that had someone actually point a gun at his chest and pull the trigger several times to prove it was malfunctioning only to find that the gun was on safety and had it failed or been switched off he would be dead.

however against the other guys point. not all those cheap plastic guns are safetyless. the ruger SR9 and some smith and wesson M&Ps have safeties.

[Revoltella]

The prospect of a decocker on a Glock is nonsensical. It doesn't "cock" until you pull the trigger. Now if you feel you need a thumb safety, that's a different issue, and thy are available as an aftermarket modification.

[Scimmia]

It doesn't "cock" until you pull the trigger.

Actually, this statement is nonsensical. The glock is mostly cocked at all times. All your doing when pulling the trigger is cocking it the last little bit.

I have never seen a striker gun with a decocker ...

Really? You've never once seen a Walther P99 or Smith SW99?

[Fishbed77]

Hm, so I guess the Walther P99, The S&W M&P and the Taurus 24/7 are going to be promising candidates...

The M&P does not have a decocker, and the P99 is far and away a better pistol that the Taurus. Walther is pretty much at the top of the heap as far as polymer pistols go (up there with H&K). Taurus is near the bottom.

The Walther P99AS has ambidextrous paddle type magazine releases.
The decocker is in the top left of the slide, pretty much neutral.
The slide stop is on the left only.

Many (most?) P99AS pistols imported into the US in the last few years have the same ambidextrous slide release as the PPQ.

[Bart Noir]

Magnum Research is now making one under license from Walther, at a lower price.

If you are referring to the new, and yes, not very expensive PPX from Walther, I am not sure this is correct.

The PPX is marked "made in Germany". And it is a concealed or semi-concealed hammer design, not a true striker fired pistol like the P99 is. The PPX is double-action only, so it is never truly cocked until the split second before the sear releases the hammer.

I echo the good things about the P99AS from Walther. I had polymer .40-caliber guns from Steyr, Glock, Beretta (PX4), SIG (250), and Walther. Only the P99 is still mine so you can see I like its unusual operation system.

Bart Noir

[cas700850]

Not the PPX, I mean a pistol actually made and marketed by Magnum Research. It's a clone of the P99. They call it the MR9.

http://www.magnumresearch.com/Firearms/Magnum-Research-MR9-Eagle-15-Round.asp

[Fishbed77]

Not the PPX, I mean a pistol actually made and marketed by Magnum Research. It's a clone of the P99. They call it the MR9.

http://www.magnumresearch.com/Firear...e-15-Round.asp



One of the best things about the MR9 is that its readily-available mags (which are identical to Walther P99 mags - both made by Mec-Gar) run about $30 or less, while Walther-branded mags run closer to $50 and can be tough to find.

This means that the only real downside to the P99 (expensive and hard-to-find mags) is no longer an issue. P99 owners can now use the the affordable, easy to find and excellent-quality MR9 mags.


.

[cas700850]

^ I wish this had happened before I traded away my P99.